Deep Dish with Semolina and Corn Flour

[Mad_Ernie]

BTB:

I used the Buzz autolyze, too, as you had mentioned way back in one of your earlier posts ... and I refrigerated the dough overnight, coming close to around 24 hours total.

btw, one change I did make that I did not mention in my previous post.  I started out weighing my KAAP flour and found out that I was not going to be able to come close to what I needed.  I was already in to making it, so rather than halt or call it quits and totally redo with some newly purchased KAAP, I used bread flour (GM Better for Bread) to compensate and "q.s." as we used to say in pharmacy school to the desired final weight of 388 grams.  I would say it was about 2/3 KA and 1/3 bread flour.  Still came out mighty tastey, although I wondered about the hydration issue.  I decided to forego adding any additional water and just plow ahead.  Came out fine. 

[Pete-zza]

ME,

If you used a total of 388 grams of the two flours, with a 2/3-1/3 split between the KAAP and the GM Better for Bread flour, I calculate (using member November's Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://tools.foodsim.com/) that the protein content of the blend was about 11.9%. That's not a big jump from KAAP all by itself, so the specific hydration shouldn't be a problem.

Peter

[Deacon Volker]

Yeah, my purchase was a 5lb bag of Aldi's finest Corn "Masa Harina" Flour.  I'd wandering notions of making a somethingorother that I've now forgotten!

I'll try your deep dish again.  For some reason I'm not having good luck yet.  I can get a really nice looking "exterior"...but my bottom crust still has way too much of a gum layer on it for what I'm looking for. But hey, the fun is in the hunt!

[Mad_Ernie]

Thanks, Peter.  I figured it would come close enough to not be too concerned about it.

Here is the sauce recipe I used.  I made a big batch (as you can see) ... and it was a good thing I did, because I didn't realize how much sauce is really needed for a 14-inch deep-dish pizza.  I have some left over, but the majority of it went to covering my sausage and mushroom ingredients.  The sauce was definitely chunkier and more plain tomato flavor than most of my sauces, but the additional herbs and spices gave it a nice little something extra.  I think I will keep it, maybe just adjusting down a tad on the oregano.  Btw, if you choose to use an oregano that is not Mexican, you might want to consider increasing the amount since the Mexican oregano carries some heat with it.  It's almost like combining Turkish oregano with pepper flakes.

I layered the dough with slices of mozzarella (a local brand) and provolone.  I finished off with freshing grated parmasean cheese over the sauce layer.  Ooooo, I can hardly wait until Sunday!

Mad Ernie’s deep-dish sauce recipe:

2 x 14.5-oz cans of Red Gold Italian diced tomatoes with basil, garlic, and onion - drained
14-oz of Escalon 6-in-1 all purpose ground tomatoes - drained
8-oz of Escalon Bonta pizza sauce with basil

1 ½ teaspoon Penzy’s pizza seasoning
¾  teaspoon of Mexican oregano
1 ½ teaspoon of granulated garlic

[MarleyEds]

BTB, do you like the semolina/corn flour/flour mix or semolina/flour pizza better?  If you answered this in one of the previous posts, I apologize, but I didn't see it.

[BTB]

MarleyEds, generally for me the pizza that I made most recently often seems the best to me, unless the recipe turned out really bad.  So the one with semolina and corn flour as indicated in Reply #11 above is one that I'm going to find hard to beat, but I'll never stop trying.  Some may not like that corn flour taste to it, even tho it is a small amount, so then one with just a semolina/flour blend would be very good.  If you make two smaller pizzas, it's often fun to try it one way and the other another way.  Throwing the dough together is easy and reasonably cheap.  Just keep track of which is which.            --BTB

[Mad_Ernie]

Here are a few photos from my attempt last week.  I am trying again this week with a scaled down version for a 10" pan.

[BTB]

Hey MA, great looking deep dish pizza pie.  Was that the recipe you mentioned above?  Really good pictures.  Makes my mouth water for making another.  Now that football season is behind us, we got to get busy with something before March madness is upon us.                   
                                                                             --BTB

[Mad_Ernie]

Hey MA, great looking deep dish pizza pie.  Was that the recipe you mentioned above?  Really good pictures.  Makes my mouth water for making another.  Now that football season is behind us, we got to get busy with something before March madness is upon us.                   
                                                                             --BTB

BTB:

Yes, that pizza was made using the recipe that I had posted earlier.  I made another one last night and it also came out well, only this time I scaled it down to a 10" pan.  My wife remarked that she liked this crust the best of all the pizzas I've made so far and wouldn't mind just eating the crust!  That's high praise coming from her.   I might fool around a bit with the recipe, such as a little more semolina, but I am pretty much pleased with the results.  I will post photos of my second attempt at the BTB inspired Chicago deep-dish some time soon. 

I will say this recipe and the DKM thin crust recipe have been the best in terms of replicating the results from pizza-to-pizza and giving me the results I was expecting from the onset.  Maybe it has something to do with adding fat/oil to the recipe.    I rarely ever add oil to my more traditional New York and American style doughs.

I will continue to try other recipes, but I know in the future if I want to hit a consistent home-run, this deep-dish recipe or the DKM thin crust will do it for me.  One of the keys is having the right equipment - in this case, the baking pans that are used.

Thanks, and yes, bring on March Madness (even though the Jayhawks won't likely go very far this year  )

-ME

[BTB]

Hey, MA, so you're a Jayhawk fan.  I'm a Sooner Alum.  We face the Jayhawks in Norman on the 23rd of this month.  Boy, did I have a dilemma with this year's championship football BCS Bowl.  Being an Oklahoma loyalist but totally in love with Florida football, Tim Teabow and all excitement down here in Gainesville, I rooted for them both, altho my wife and kids said that I couldn't and that I had to choose one over the other (esp. since I have so many OU plaques and stuff).  It was a great game and I would have been happy either way.  How many people can say that?                 
                                                                                                  --BTB

[MarleyEds]

I took a crack at this recipe for a 14" pizza:

Flour (100%):    435.62 g  |     15.37 oz |    0.96 lbs
Water (46%):    200.39 g  |     7.07 oz |    0.44 lbs
ADY (1%):    4.36 g |    0.15 oz |    0.01 lbs |    1.15 tsp |    0.38 tbsp
Salt (.75%):    3.27 g |    0.12 oz |    0.01 lbs |    0.68 tsp |    0.23 tbsp
Olive Oil (4%):    17.42 g |    0.61 oz |    0.04 lbs |    3.87 tsp |    1.29 tbsp
Corn Oil (20%):    87.12 g |    3.07 oz |    0.19 lbs |    6.45 tbsp |    0.4 cups
Sugar (.75%):    3.27 g |    0.12 oz |    0.01 lbs |    0.82 tsp |    0.27 tbsp
Total (172.5%):   751.45 g |    26.51 oz |    1.66 lbs |    TF = 0.126875

80% KAAP: 12.3 oz
12% Semolina flour: 1.84 oz
8% corn flour: 1.23 oz

I was pinched for time, so I had to make a few deviations.  After mixing up the initial dough ball and letting rest for 30 minutes in a warm part of the kitchen, I refrigerated the ball for about 6 hours before I was able to punch it down.  It then went back into the frig for another 8 hours.  I let the dough get to room temperature for about 3 hours.

I also made a second 14" pie for my tasters which was a straight 25% semolina mixture (no corn flour).  Some of my family liked the corn flour crust better, but most liked the semolina only better.  I couldn't identify much of a taste difference between the two - it was mostly textural differences.  The corn flour mixture crumbled apart quickly - almost like it wasn't fully binded.  The semolina mixture crust seemed to crumble apart quicker than the other versions I made (20% semolina), but it wasn't to the degree as the corn flour mixture.

I wound up using a mixture of part skim mozz, smoked mozz, smoked provolone, and a little scamorza.  The smoked cheeses definitely overpowered the taste - which may be why I was unable to distinguish any taste difference between the two crusts.  I also added fresh basil to my sauce, which paired very well with the smoked cheese flavor.  A few of my tasters absolutely raved about the basil/smoked cheese combo.  It was good, but I think I prefer regular mozz - but at least I have a winner recipe for my father in-law!

I also tried to jazz up my sausage like BTB - while I could not find any fresh lithuanian sausage, I did find some homemade greek sausage, and made a 50/50 mix of the greek and mild italian.  I did not give it as much scrutiny as I should have, but it was definitely good and I think it I prefered it to straight mild italian.  The smallest package of greek sausage was like, 2 pounds, so I have a lot left over to sample again.   

The pre-sauted onions/fresh garlic continue to go over well, and if I ever do thin pepperoni slices again, I will definitely put them under the sauce, as mine got charred.

* Oh yeah, and since the tasting audience included more than just my wife, I added some diced basil and garlic tomatoes to the sauce - I do think it is a great touch (the wife still managed to pick all of them off though  )

My family started chowing down before I was able to take pictures:

[BTB]

MarleyEds, I'm impressed and glad to hear you experimented with both kinds (one with semolina & corn flour and one with semolina only).  That's a great side by side way of seeing the different affects the ingredients have.  And the findings with some liking it one way and others liking it another way just shows how great this pizzamaking can be.  There are some days when I like one style over another, too (i.e., "sometimes you feel like a nut . . . sometimes you don't!").  Great pictures, too.  I also wanted to report on some pizzas that I made, but before I could grab the camera, the pizzas were devoured. 

I'm uncertain about the "crumbled" part of your dough description, but maybe next time knead it a little longer, but just a tad longer.  Believe me, if you knead too long, the dough turns out whereby it seems like you're eating cheese on just bread.  Just a thought for a future experiment, try adding a teaspoon or two (depending on pizza size) of bakers NFDM or dairy whey (if you can find it).  It helps out a little in providing texture "lightness" and golden browning of pizza, but one has to try it to see.  Not essential to this recipe, tho.

I like your combining different sausages.  I've gotten into the habit recently of combining sweet Italian sausage with another kind, too.  There are no places around here that have any good Lithuanian sausage like I remember getting in the south suburbs of Chicago.  But we do have a good sausage shop in Safety Harbor, FL that besides great polish and other sausages makes some great Hungarian sausage.  I was reluctant at first (because it was reddish in color) but they assured me it was tasty and very similar to polish but with some other spices (like paprika) that gave it the reddish color.  And as it turned out, it was very good.

Some emailed me that they had difficulty finding corn flour.  Were you able to find it easily?  Some websites mistakenly say corn flour is corn starch, which it is not.   And yep . . . some diced basil and garlic tomatoes are indeed a real nice finishing touch to making a deep dish pizza.                    --BTB

[MarleyEds]

I'm uncertain about the "crumbled" part of your dough description

Yeah, I knew that was going to be hard to explain - when you took a bite, the crust just seemed to break apart all at once.  Almost like it was barely holding together.  I will try a little extra kneading.

Some emailed me that they had difficulty finding corn flour.  Were you able to find it easily?

I found it at Michael's Fresh Market - which is also where I get my Semolina, scamorza, and 6-in-1 tomatoes.  It's a family owned global type super market.

Regarding the sausage, I am hesitant to use Polish - not exactly sure why, but probably because I relate the taste being so different from italian.

[BTB]

Regarding the sausage, I am hesitant to use Polish - not exactly sure why, but probably because I relate the taste being so different from italian.

It's funny but many years ago alot of my pizza loving friends on the south side of Chicago used to speculate that most of the "great" Chicago pizzerias used either a combination of Italian and Polish sausage or just Polish sausage itself for a "sausage pizza."  There had been times when even at "Northside Pizzerias" that I was at I swore . . . "that's polish sausage on there!"  I've learned that Polish sausage is not all the same and that there are many different varieties of fresh Polish, but most of it has alot of Garlic, which most pizza lovers really like.  I don't think this is the case on the east coast, however, and certainly isn't the case of the west coast, at which sausage is not as common an ingredient on a pizza.  But in Chicago -- and in alot of the midwest -- sausage (generally just Italian) is the No. 1 requested pizza topping ingredient.

[Mad_Ernie]

Finally, photos of my last attempt at the deep-dish Chicago style pizza, done on February 15th. 

Here are some of the ingredients and in-process preparation:

[Mad_Ernie]

More pics, this time of the final product.

[JConk007]

Very Nice ME! Both of them!!
How did you handle the spinach was it fresh ? pre cooked then drained?
Nice work! My suace with the bit of bonta, spices, and the 6 in 1 s is how I do mine as well.
Thanks for the reinspiration! I may try this recipe again this weekend.
JOhn

[Mad_Ernie]

John:

The spinach was chopped, frozen that was microwaved for about 1/2 the time that bag called for.  I added some minced garlic, salt, pepper, and nutmeg to the mix.

I like this recipe for its reproducability.  I've only made it twice, but they came out perfect both times, and I didn't even use a traditional Chicago pizza pan for this one.  It's become my wife's favorite crust. 

I now have a throwdown challenge from a local guy who has been making deep dish pizzas at home and wants to compare our respective pies.  We'll see how it goes.

Keep us posted on your continued results with deep-dish style, too.

-Mad Ernie (ME)

[BTB]

Great looking pizza, MA.  And that's some mean pizza cutter that you have there.  Better count your fingers.       Make another pizza in celebration of the Jayhawks win over the Sooners.   --BTB