Author Topic: Help with scaling a dough recipe...  (Read 4493 times)

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Offline corduroy9

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Help with scaling a dough recipe...
« on: February 28, 2009, 03:05:08 PM »

I got this recipe...

50lbs unbleached pie flour
10lbs room temp butter
4oz. (weighed) Active Dry yeast dissolved in
approx 1/2 gallon luke warm water
approx 1.5 gal of luke warm water
1 1/2 cup of sugar
3/4 cup salt
1 cup vegetable oil

...and I tried to scale it down myself with some bad results.  Can anyone help me get it to a 1-pound flour recipe?  Thanks!

Also, "pie flour" ... from what I read is about 9% protein (all-purpose is around 11%).  I found some pastry flour, but it was whole wheat, made the dough a darker than expected color.  Anyone familiar with using this kind of flour?  I think the next time I try this recipe, I will use all-purpose.




Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Help with scaling a dough recipe...
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2009, 04:45:45 PM »
corduroy9,

What you want to do is convert all of the ingredients to ounces, by weight, including the liquids. I am willing to help you with the conversion but I was wondering why there are two water quantities, both lukewarm. Why isn't the water specified as 2 gallons?

I know what you mean about the whole wheat pastry flour. Arrowhead sells it in my area. However, there is a white pastry flour. King Arthur, for one, sells it, and I have seen it in some stores that sell different flour products in bulk form in bins. As you noted, it's protein content is lower than for all-purpose flour, so you may have to increase the hydration a bit to compensate for the substitution.

Peter

Offline corduroy9

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Re: Help with scaling a dough recipe...
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2009, 05:07:20 PM »
The water is in 2 quantities, one for dissolving the yeast and the other for adding to the mix. 

So it is 2 gallons total.

Thanks in advance for helping!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Help with scaling a dough recipe...
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2009, 05:22:35 PM »
corduroy9,

That is what I thought but you really only need about 4 times the weight of the ADY to rehydrate it, or around 16 ounces of water, not a half gallon. In using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, I cannot split the water component into two parts, so for the original recipe this is what I get for the 50-lb. flour version:

Flour (100%):
Water (33.3816%):
ADY (0.50%):
Salt (0.88593%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (0.96119%):
Sugar (1.26562%):
Butter (20%):
Total (156.99434%):
22680.01 g  |  800 oz | 50 lbs
7570.95 g  |  267.05 oz | 16.69 lbs
113.4 g | 4 oz | 0.25 lbs | 10 tbsp | 0.63 cups
200.93 g | 7.09 oz | 0.44 lbs | 12 tbsp | 0.75 cups
218 g | 7.69 oz | 0.48 lbs | 16 tbsp | 1 cups
287.04 g | 10.12 oz | 0.63 lbs | 24 tbsp | 1.5 cups
4536 g | 160 oz | 10 lbs | 319.72 tbsp | 19.98 cups
35606.32 g | 1255.96 oz | 78.5 lbs | TF = N/A

For the 1-lb. flour version, which is 1/50th of the above quantities:

Flour (100%):
Water (33.3816%):
ADY (0.50%):
Salt (0.88593%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (0.96119%):
Sugar (1.26562%):
Butter (20%):
Total (156.99434%):
453.6 g  |  16 oz | 1 lbs
151.42 g  |  5.34 oz | 0.33 lbs
2.27 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.6 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
4.02 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.72 tsp | 0.24 tbsp
4.36 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.96 tsp | 0.32 tbsp
5.74 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.44 tsp | 0.48 tbsp
90.72 g | 3.2 oz | 0.2 lbs | 6.39 tbsp | 0.4 cups
712.13 g | 25.12 oz | 1.57 lbs | TF = N/A

Peter




Offline corduroy9

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Re: Help with scaling a dough recipe...
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2009, 05:25:52 PM »
Thanks so much for the fast reply!  I'll try this recipe and post pictures...more info...if it turns out ok.

Offline corduroy9

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Re: Help with scaling a dough recipe...
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2009, 12:26:47 AM »
The pizza turned out very good.

I used the above 1-pound flour recipe, with IDY instead of ADY, and 1 stick of butter.  I think I used a little bit too much water though, as the dough was a bit more fluffy than I wanted.

Put all the dry ingredients into a mixer.  Add the butter (room temp butter), then add the oil and the hot (115 degree) IDY/water/pinch of sugar solution to the mix last, so that it helps melt the butter in the mixer.  I used King Arthur All Purpose flour, instead of "pie flour."  I let the dough rise for 3 hours in a sealed container, and then punched it down.  I repeated that 2 more times.  Then I rolled out the dough, docked it, put it into pans, covered it with plastic wrap and stored it in my refrigerator for a day.  You should be able to get 3 pizzas, 9x13. 

You should use smoked provolone cheese.  It's pretty strong, but melts well and gives a great flavor.  I think I'm going to try a 50-50 blend of smoked provolone and mozzarella next time (as smoked provolone is kinda expensive/hard to find and a pain to shred myself).  A local specialty shop sells smoked provolone for about $12/pound.  1/2 a pound should be enough to mix into a blend for the 3 pies.

I found it's best to use a small rectangular pan, dark, nonstick.  Like a brownie pan...9x13.  I preheated to oven to ~475 degrees with a stone for 30 minutes.  Cook the pizza in the pan until the top starts to brown, then take it out of the pan and put it directly on the stone for about 2 minutes to crisp the bottom. 

It makes for a damn tasty pie.

I had a couple mishaps while making it this time around (for example, I used too big a pan the first time and could not transfer it to the stone without a topping slide/avalanche).  I'll try again next weekend and post some pictures. 

Thanks again to Pete-zza for scaling it down for me!!!


Offline corduroy9

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Re: Help with scaling a dough recipe...
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2009, 10:54:27 PM »
I made the dough again this weekend.  It turned out very nice.

A couple more notes...

1.  Definitely go with 100% smoked provolone (instead of a blend).  I used 8 oz for a 9x13 pie, and that seemed just right.

2.  For the 1-pound recipe above, the sugar, salt, and yeast measurements are so small...I tried to be very precise.

3.  You have to use a stand mixer...and the mix seems very dry/scrappy up until about 10 minutes, then it all gets absorbed.  I also used a spatula to press the flour into the dough while mixing.

Enjoy!


Offline corduroy9

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Re: Help with scaling a dough recipe...
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2009, 08:28:07 AM »
One more thing...above I said the 1-pound flour recipe makes three 9x13 pies.  Next time I try it, I'm only going to make two 9x13 pies.  When you are done mixing the dough, you should have a dough ball that weighs about 24 oz.  For the pizza above, I divided the ball into three 8-oz balls, but I think two 12oz balls would be better, as 8oz balls had to be rolled really thin to fit the pan. 

Offline incognito

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Re: Help with scaling a dough recipe...
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2010, 03:10:50 PM »
My wife has a test question that says to describe how to scale a dough recipe if the weight of the flour is known/unknown?
I'm positive this ties into what you are talking about. This is for a commercial kitchen. Maybe someone can help?

Boy that's a good looking pizza by the way!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Help with scaling a dough recipe...
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2010, 07:01:30 PM »
My wife has a test question that says to describe how to scale a dough recipe if the weight of the flour is known/unknown?
I'm positive this ties into what you are talking about. This is for a commercial kitchen. Maybe someone can help?

incognito,

The easy case is where the weight of the flour is known. That is because the baker's percent method is based on weights, with the baker's percents of all of the remaining ingredients being based on the weight of the flour (the flour itself is always 100%). Once all of the baker's percents are ascertained, it is easy to scale the dough formulation up or down. To do this, many of us use dough calculating tools such as available on the forum at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_tools.html.

The much tougher case is where the flour is measured out volumetrically. There are at least a half-dozen different methods for measuring out a fixed quantity of flour, say, one cup, and each method is highly likely to produce a different value when the flour is weighed on a scale. If one knows the type and brand of flour and the method used to measure out the flour volumetrically, a Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator developed by one of our members, November, at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/, can be used. That tool is based on hundreds of weighings of flours in different quantities using different flour measurement methods. Absent such a tool, or for a flour that is not in the pull-down menu of the aforementioned tool, one would have to make multiple weighings of one or more specified quantities of flour (e.g., a cup, 1/2-cup, etc.) using a particular flour measurement method and average their values. Then, the weight can be used with the other baker's percents for scaling purposes.

Peter


Offline incognito

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Re: Help with scaling a dough recipe...
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2010, 09:07:26 PM »
Thanks Pete,
I'm sure that is what my wife needs and will be very helpful. Thanks for spending the time to post this for us.

Jim

Offline incognito

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Re: Help with scaling a dough recipe...
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2010, 09:10:17 PM »
This is going to be a fun forum. We are just getting into GOOD pizzas so this is going to be informative.

Jim and Diana, Yosemite,Ca.


 

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