Author Topic: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?  (Read 1371 times)

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Offline JHutchins

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What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« on: August 03, 2013, 12:19:39 AM »
I've always wondered what the typical cornice (rim) thickness is for a New York style pizza. When I look at the "great slices" on Slice Harvester, I don't see big puffy rims and that's what I think of as New York style.

http://www.sliceharvester.com/search/label/Great%20Slice

Here in the forum, it seems like most people try to obtain a big puffy rim.

So how thick is the rim on a true New York style pizza?


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2013, 07:50:55 AM »
JHutchins,

Several years ago, in the early days of this forum, when I first started playing around with commercial NY style dough formulations to adapt them to a home setting, without the benefit of having spent time looking at NY style pizzas when I was in NYC, I was of the impression that the rims of NY style pizzas were supposed to be on the thick and soft side. Actually, that impression came from a member who once lived in NYC. Eventually, I came to learn that the NY style pizzas have small rims. That is what you see in the article you referenced.

We have several members who, while they know what a real NY style pizza is supposed to look like, actually prefer to have their versions with thick and soft rims. I suppose it is like almost everything else in life. We adapt things to our own preferences.

Peter

Offline Chaze215

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2013, 08:26:50 AM »
I'm a fan of NY style, and I enjoy a smaller rim. However, you're right, you do see a lot of puffy rims here and elsewhere. As Pete said, it's just a matter of preference. I grew up on a smaller rim here NJ, so that's what I prefer.
Chaz

Offline scott123

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2013, 08:37:22 AM »
We have several members who, while they know what a real NY style pizza is supposed to look like, actually prefer to have their versions with thick and soft rims.

And we have one member who's made a handful of passionate pleas to call these thicker rimmed pizzas something other than 'NY style.'

It's more than just a matter of personal preference- it's a matter of regional identity and culture- and the trampling thereof.

Offline Chaze215

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2013, 09:39:25 AM »
And we have one member who's made a handful of passionate pleas to call these thicker rimmed pizzas something other than 'NY style.'

To be called what?  ???
Chaz

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2013, 09:40:06 AM »
I view what people choose to do in the privacy of their own homes to be their business. For commercial pizza, I might be inclined to agree with Scott but then I would have to make an exception for Norma ;)

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2013, 10:36:43 AM »
Peter,

I been to NY many times and eaten those thin rimmed pizzas and do enjoy them, but after coming here to the forum and seeing those nice airy crumb structures members achieved have found out I really do like thicker rimmed pizzas and more of an airy crumb structure.  I know I am not authentic in how I make my NY style pizzas.  I believe it is each members choice what they like in the rim crust.

Norma
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Offline scott123

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2013, 12:13:45 PM »
To be called what?  ???

There's over 30,000 cities in the U.S. and more than 1 million words in the English language.  Pi contains an infinite number of numerical combinations.  Be like the musician Prince and don't use letters or numbers, but a symbol.  Use sign language to classify it.  Semaphore.  I don't care what people use as long as it's not 'NY Style.'  It's not my responsibility to help the culturally insensitive find an alternative label that doesn't trample my culture's identity.

Should it be up to African Americans to help Paula Deen find better words to describe people of color or should Paula figure out more appropriate descriptors herself?

 ;D

Seriously, though, there's a classification for Neapolitan/NY hybrids (Neo NY), so why not a classification for American/NY. NY-Am? Ameri-NY?
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 03:22:08 PM by scott123 »

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2013, 12:30:40 PM »
I'm a thin rim NY style man myself, I especially like a typical "slice joint" slice, thin, very flat edge, oily cheese and lots of it. Sometimes pictures make the rim appear to be more pronounced then it really is, I've had that happen to pictures I have taken, the edge crust will often look thicker then it really is.

Offline dhorst

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2013, 07:05:01 PM »
Quote
Seriously, though, there's a classification for Neapolitan/NY hybrids (Neo NY), so why not a classification for American/NY. NY-Am? Ameri-NY?

Hmm.  Well I do know you don't care for style or inspired for describing a certain kind of pizza.  NYS is quite diverse, but maybe as many seem to think, NY means NYC.  I will say as someone who grew up just shy of Ottawa and now lives in Syracuse the styles are very different.  Yep, sorry, used the word style.  Not sure how else to get it across.  So, how would we classify some of those kinds of pizzas?   ;)  My word, we do spend a bit of time thinking about pizza!  :-D  Scott, I am looking forward to meeting you in New Haven.  All the best!
Diana
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Offline scott123

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2013, 08:10:05 PM »
Hmm.  Well I do know you don't care for style or inspired for describing a certain kind of pizza.  NYS is quite diverse, but maybe as many seem to think, NY means NYC.  I will say as someone who grew up just shy of Ottawa and now lives in Syracuse the styles are very different.  Yep, sorry, used the word style.  Not sure how else to get it across.  So, how would we classify some of those kinds of pizzas?   ;)  My word, we do spend a bit of time thinking about pizza!  :-D  Scott, I am looking forward to meeting you in New Haven.  All the best!

I expect it to be a blast, Diana. These things always are.

FWIW, I have no problem with using 'style' or 'inspired' for describing pizza.  My entire life revolves around the word 'style.'  You really can't talk about pizza without using it.  It's impossible not to. As I've said elsewhere, a Neapolitan pizzeria located in NY could, from a geographic perspective, be considered 'NY pizza.' It is only when you use the term 'style' that everyone's on the same page- that's there's no room for confusion. 'Style' is a more specific descriptor, not a less specific one. My huge issue- the issue that has the potential to flush the last 5 years of my life down the drain, is with 'style' and 'inspired' being synonymous when speaking about pizza. The moment 'style' and 'inspired' mean the same thing, 'NY style' can mean anything to anyone.  A rim the size of a football?  Sure. Cumin in the sauce?  Why not?  A 40 minute bake?  No problem. If I'm 'inspired,' then the sky's the limit.  NY, and every citizen in it, can suck it, since I'm using the term 'style'  ::)

So, not only do I have to defend certain parameters as to what constitutes and doesn't constitute NY style pizza, the term 'NY style,' itself, is under attack. If the term, within the context of pizza, gets redefined, there's no hope whatsoever for my region's heritage- and, by extension, there's no hope for me. And this isn't hyperbole. I can't defend an inspiration.  If I don't think I'm, in the smallest way, helping to preserve my area's cultural identity, then I'm going to find something else to devote most of waking hours towards. Everything hinges on 'style' and 'inspired' NOT being synonymous.

As far as your specific question is concerned ;D NY style pizza was born from Italian American culture, and the greatest concentration of Italian immigrants in NY was in the outer boroughs, so it kind of is a NYC thing, but, from the research I've done, there's NY style pizza in Syracuse.  Syracuse is a college town, and students tend to be very demanding when it comes to food, so I have no doubt that you can find at least one good NY style slice. Considering the number of good slices you can find here, at this present time, Syracuse might have NYC beat.

Ottawa, on the other hand, is not far from Montreal and, from the photos I've seen, Montreal pizza is in a different universe from NY.  It's also, obviously, across the border.  It's not like the drastically different culture you'll find when crossing the Mexican border, but, there's differences- as I'm sure you're aware, and I have no doubt those are reflected in the pizza.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 08:14:42 PM by scott123 »

Offline parallei

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2013, 09:51:26 PM »
Syracuse is a college town, and students tend to be very demanding when it comes to food
:-D :-D

Times sure must have changed.  When I was surviving on the GI Bill in the mid 70's, I was just happy to eat, period!

Offline scott123

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2013, 10:00:17 PM »
:-D :-D

Times sure must have changed.  When I was surviving on the GI Bill in the mid 70's, I was just happy to eat, period!

I probably could have said that better  ;D College towns introduce massive potential profits for restaurants so the competition tends to be incredibly fierce. The competition for student dollars tends to be very demanding when it comes to food.

Offline Chifunda

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2013, 09:02:34 AM »
:-D :-D

Times sure must have changed.  When I was surviving on the GI Bill in the mid 70's, I was just happy to eat, period!

Yup. Married and going to college on the GI bill during the late sixties, our food budget was $10 a week.  :o Fischer beer (emphatically NOT the one from  Strasbourg) was 99 cents a six pack and we were bloody glad to have it. Pizza night was a rare and highly anticipated occasion. 
 
For real insight on how tough things were when we were young, Google Monty Python - Four Yorkshiremen.  ;D

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2013, 05:27:45 PM »
I'm certainly not from New York and have never been there but I like New York pizza style the best of all the pizzas I tried.  If you ask me I'd say I prefer the thin rim but thick rim is okay especially if it has the spider web effect going inside of it. I've had the spider web affect in some rims that were not big and puffy but not thin, somewhere inbetween and that was cool. Don't ask me why I like the spider web effect but I can only guess because it looks so cool.


Offline bfguilford

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2013, 05:52:24 PM »
Ottawa, on the other hand, is not far from Montreal and, from the photos I've seen, Montreal pizza is in a different universe from NY.  It's also, obviously, across the border.  It's not like the drastically different culture you'll find when crossing the Mexican border, but, there's differences- as I'm sure you're aware, and I have no doubt those are reflected in the pizza.

OK, now we're treading on my sacred ground. Born and raised in Montreal, but left almost 30 years ago. Montreal is around 125 mi (200 km  >:D) from Ottawa and is very different in most ways. The pizza I grew up on was NY style thin, but with a larger and pretty puffy cornicione, sauced and cheesed like a NY pie. When my mother didn't order it well-done (she ordered EVERYTHING well-done  :'(), it folded much like a NY slice and drooped at the tip. Come to think of it, it's a pretty close to what I make now but with a chewier crust.

Barry
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Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2013, 05:58:04 PM »
I was under the impression that Montreal pizza was more along the lines of tomato pies, large, square pan pizzas, dusting of grated cheese and perhaps some anchovies if you were old school. :-\

Offline bfguilford

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Re: What is typical NY style cornice (rim) thickness?
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2013, 06:08:52 PM »
I was under the impression that Montreal pizza was more along the lines of tomato pies, large, square pan pizzas, dusting of grated cheese and perhaps some anchovies if you were old school. :-\

Could be, but I never saw a square pan pizza when I was growing up (and I ate a lot of pizza through college and on through my 20's, which were also ill-spent in Montreal). In fact I don't think I ever saw any pan pizza in Montreal at all. And cheese was grated mozz. I skipped the anchovies.

Barry
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