Essen1's NY-style pizza project

[Essen1]

Mike, you still having crust browning issues? I thought you resolved that

I thought so, too.

I think it's my oven and not the doughs I've been making. I've got to look into that.

[s00da]

When you make a pie that lacks browning, are there any other differences accompanying it when compared to the appropriately browned pies?

[Essen1]

When you make a pie that lacks browning, are there any other differences accompanying it when compared to the appropriately browned pies?

s00da,

When I moved into my new place and used the oven the first few times, I got beautiful coloration. It has been declining slowly but steadily and now the oven takes much longer to get up to temp compared to the beginning. I have a feeling that the lower element is slowly crapping out on me.

I don't think it's the dough formulations at all since I have been using them off and on in my oven.

[Essen1]

Well, after all the bread making - not that I have put that on hold! - I thought it's time to get back to some pizza making.

As some of you know I have checked out some different flours lately, mainly for the Tartine breads. I tested the Central Milling Co.'s Baker's Craft flour with exceptional results and followed Bill/SFNM's recommendation on the Giusto's Artisan Bread flour.

Both flours have returned fantastic results in terms of breads. Last night I thought why not combine them at equal amounts, make a pizza dough and see how the pies turn out. I loosely followed Scott R's Bosch mixer dough formula found here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11900.0.html

By loosely I mean that I made a couple of minor adjustments to his original formula, mainly to the hydration (60% instead of 59%) and the IDY amount (0.2% instead of 0.1%). Everything else I kept the same. That includes the mixing times, rest times and fermentation times. However, I also added 1% of brown sugar to aid browning/coloring since I had trouble in that department for awhile now. I'm not sure, though, if sugar is actually needed because the flours have so far returned an amazing coloration. But that was for bread and under different baking conditions and times. Anyway, we'll see how that goes...

The dough will be ready to go tonight, just in time for Monday Night Football (Go Niners!). Each dough ball is 350gr. for a 14" pie.

641gr. CM/Giusto's   100%
384gr. Water              60%
16gr.   Sea salt          2.5%
6gr.     Oil                      1%
6gr.     Brown sugar      1%
1.2 gr. IDY                    .2%

The dough came out of the mixing bowl very silky in feel, very smooth to the touch and was very easy to handle. I almost forgot what that feels like after all the high hydration bread doughs.  It was easily divided and shaped into individual dough balls and refrigerated overnight. I'll be taking the dough out of the fridge around 6pm and give it an an hour and a half to come to room temp.

Here's a shot before they went into the fridge. I'll take more pics and crumb shots tonight.

[Essen1]

It's the oven. 

I'm certain about this, at last now.

I made two pies last night, gave the damn thing about 90 mins to come up to temp and it topped out a little under 525°F, which is the lowest temperature yet. I used to hit temps in the 625° F range and got beuatiful browning on my pies.

Needless to say, there was hardly any coloration whatsoever. It's pretty disappointing especially after trying several different flours, formulas, sugar - no sugar, etc. Time to talk to our management and get a new one delivered.

Other than that, the crust was good, not great but decent.

[Matthew]

It's the oven. 

I'm certain about this, at last now.

Way to go bud, now you really did it. 

[Essen1]

Way to go bud, now you really did it. 

I know. 

Seriously, I really don't know what else it could be other than the damn oven. I have been scratching my head for a few months now and that's the only reason I can come up with.

If you have a suggestion, let me hear it. I'll be happy to give it a try before I kick the oven out. 

[Matthew]

I know. 

Seriously, I really don't know what else it could be other than the damn oven. I have been scratching my head for a few months now and that's the only reason I can come up with.

If you have a suggestion, let me hear it. I'll be happy to give it a try before I kick the oven out. 

I'm not sure if it will do the job but try placing an a couple of half sheet pans on the shelf directly above the stone.  I used to do this before I got my pizza oven & it worked like a charm.  If it doesn't work then get rid of the damn thing.

Matt

[Glutenboy]

How difficult is it to replace the bottom heating element?

[Essen1]

I'm not sure if it will do the job but try placing an a couple of half sheet pans on the shelf directly above the stone.  I used to do this before I got my pizza oven & it worked like a charm.  If it doesn't work then get rid of the damn thing.

Matt

Bro,

I tried that already. Didn't work. But thanks for the suggestion. 

[Essen1]

How difficult is it to replace the bottom heating element?

I don't know.

Since I live in an apartment complex we have maintenance guys and since I'm not an electrician I'm not gonna mess with the thing. It's easier for them to replace the oven than for me to go buy the correct element and install it. I already spoke with the manager and it looks like that's what they'll do.

[ponzu]

I'm not sure if it will do the job but try placing an a couple of half sheet pans on the shelf directly above the stone.  I used to do this before I got my pizza oven & it worked like a charm.  If it doesn't work then get rid of the damn thing.

Matt

How is the counter top oven?  any pie pics?

AZ

[Essen1]

Glutenboy,

Checked the Model # and GE has discontinued that range.

Tried to find a heating element but to no avail. GE doesn't even supply any replacement parts for it any longer. I also checked in with a buddy of mine who's an electrician and he said that nowadays, if it's a generic GE range it's probably cheaper to get a new one than to jump through hoops to find parts.

But besides that, I pay premium rent here in the Bay Area and since the oven's not my personal property, the landlord has to provide either a new one or fix it.

If it were my range, yes I'd mess with it.

[Bob1]

Essen1,
Sorry to hear about your dilemma.  I would think that the heating element is either good or bad because it is a resistive part.  If both elements get hot I would think that it would be the heat sensor being out of whack.  What model are you using?

Bob

[StrayBullet]

Essen1,
Sorry to hear about your dilemma.  I would think that the heating element is either good or bad because it is a resistive part.  If both elements get hot I would think that it would be the heat sensor being out of whack.  What model are you using?

Bob

Exactly, it either works or doesn't...if temps aren't coming up or elements energized when they need, it's the thermocouple.

Glutenboy,

Checked the Model # and GE has discontinued that range.

Tried to find a heating element but to no avail. GE doesn't even supply any replacement parts for it any longer. I also checked in with a buddy of mine who's an electrician and he said that nowadays, if it's a generic GE range it's probably cheaper to get a new one than to jump through hoops to find parts.

But besides that, I pay premium rent here in the Bay Area and since the oven's not my personal property, the landlord has to provide either a new one or fix it.

If it were my range, yes I'd mess with it.

Man, that's what I love about maintenance, "throw it away" instead of repair it....the reason they say that is because they're as clueless as everyone else on how to troubleshoot and repair it, so they spend $250 for a new unit instead of $12 for a new element that unplugs with 2 connectors

[Essen1]

Bob,

I don't have the Model # here at work. But it's close to this range:

http://www.generalmanual.com/Kitchen-Appliances/GE-JBS07MCC-Free-Standing-Electric-Range.htm


Straybullet,

I'm not very fond of today's throw-away society, either, but if that's what they decide to do then that's their business.

[Bob1]

Essen1,
I just looked at the GE site and found a manual that enables you to adjust the thermostat hotter.

http://products.geappliances.com/MarketingObjectRetrieval/Dispatcher?RequestType=PDF&Name=49-88044_LORES.pdf


Check out page 20 you may be in luck.

Bob

[Essen1]

Essen1,
I just looked at the GE site and found a manual that enables you to adjust the thermostat hotter.

http://products.geappliances.com/MarketingObjectRetrieval/Dispatcher?RequestType=PDF&Name=49-88044_LORES.pdf


Check out page 20 you may be in luck.

Bob

Bob,

Thanks for the link.

I maxed the temp out already by adjusting the Thermostat a few months ago. It only improved the browning for a few bakes.

I appreciate the help, though. 

[Bob1]

Essen1,
I know you are not sure of the model number yet, but here is a link to the thermostat for that model.  It looks a little steep for something that is not your responsibility.

http://www.partselect.com/PartDetail.aspx?Inventory=235122&SourceCode=4

I think I also read that the unit cycles between the top and bottom element for even heat.  Did you actually feel both elements getting warm?  It appears that they have elements for sale also.

http://www.partselect.com/PartDetail.aspx?Inventory=249236&SourceCode=1
http://www.partselect.com/PartDetail.aspx?Inventory=249238&SourceCode=1

Bob

[Essen1]

Essen1,
I know you are not sure of the model number yet, but here is a link to the thermostat for that model.  It looks a little steep for something that is not your responsibility.

http://www.partselect.com/PartDetail.aspx?Inventory=235122&SourceCode=4

I think I also read that the unit cycles between the top and bottom element for even heat.  Did you actually feel both elements getting warm?  It appears that they have elements for sale also.

http://www.partselect.com/PartDetail.aspx?Inventory=249236&SourceCode=1
http://www.partselect.com/PartDetail.aspx?Inventory=249238&SourceCode=1

Bob

Bob,

Mine is a really basic GE model.

When baking, only the bottom element is active, never the broiler one. It doesn't cycle at all between those two.

I have an appointment with Maintenance tomorrow morning at 10. I don't know what they'll decide on, whether to replace the unit or to fix it. The gal at the office suggested to just replace the entire range but I'm waiting to see what happens tomorrow.

The pic I posted resembles my range but is not the exact model. I have to get the model number sometime tonight after I get back home from a birthday dinner and see what's available in terms of parts, if any, so I can show it to the guys tomorrow.