Author Topic: Essen1's NY-style pizza project  (Read 103670 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3277
  • Location: SF Bay Area
    • The Hobby Cook
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2009, 02:33:14 PM »
No man, it had nothing to do with ages. I believe if they were 30 you'd still state that your pizza is better than going to heaven.
 :angel:

Of course I would because they are...the pies that is.  ;D
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/


Offline NY pizzastriver

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 527
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2009, 03:19:55 PM »
I know it bro!  :D
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3277
  • Location: SF Bay Area
    • The Hobby Cook
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2009, 08:18:35 PM »
Peter,

Remember when I raved about Marcello's in SF? Well, I said I'd post some picks of their individual slices and here are a few from one of my earlier lunches at their place.

In the second pick, you can see those nice air pockets which give the crust their characteristics. Very light, fluffy and foldable with a good amount of char on the bottom, from the Rotoflex oven.

Pics are not the best because I took them with my cell phone cam.

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3277
  • Location: SF Bay Area
    • The Hobby Cook
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2009, 03:35:49 PM »
Peter,

I used your suggestion concerning the missing parts of the recipe I pm'ed you about and came up with this formula:

662 gr. Stone-Buhr flour (100%)
417 gr. Water @ 75° F (63%)
12 gr. Kosher salt        (1.75%)
4.5 gr. IDY                    (0.65%)

and a baker's pinch of sugar.

Single ball was 365 and TF was 0.08.

I did get some air pockets but not as much as the Marcello crust. And it wasn't as soft. It still was a good dough, though, and I think if I'd add a touch of oil and increase the hydration to 64%, I should be able to nail it at some point. However, the bottom of the crust lacked some of the charring albeit a stone pre-heating time of over an hour.

I also put on the cheese first and instead of using shredded cheese, I used sliced whole-milk, low moisture mozzarella and gave it a little bit of a Totonno's look, minus the charred rim.

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline RichC

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 22
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #44 on: May 05, 2009, 01:24:58 PM »
Alright...

My folks have some family visiting from out of state and they're both pizza aficionados. My old man's wife's sister - and herself - grew up with Chicago Thin Crust and deep-dish pies but also have a deep love for a good NY-style pie. And the sister's boyfriend admitted to me that he enjoys a good pizza about twice a week from a place in his town that's run by an older Italian lady and sports a WFO. He said that her pies always have a nice char to it, are thin crust and overall some of the best pizza he's has so far.

Anyway, I thought I'd use the family as guinea pigs for a same-day 8 hr dough. I started at 11:00 am and had the first pizza on their table at around 7:00 pm, right on time for the Sharks - Ducks Hockey game. The ladies requested a greek-style pizza, which was topped with fresh red bellers, red onion, fresh garlic, Feta cheese, Kalamata Olives, marinated artichoke hearts and a generous dusting of oregano.

The second pie was a half & half per request by my old man and the sister's BF. It featured mushrooms, fresh garlic Kalamata olives on the entire pizza and then one half was topped with mild Italian sausage & Calabrese salami, and the other half was a tuna, red onion type.

Unfortunately, I didn't take any individual pics of both pizzas but managed to record two videos, capturing the remarks of what the family thought of those pies. I apologize for the lighting but it was taken with my digital cam and the quality lacked a little. But I'm sure you can hear their comments... :chef:


Here are the two vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nct21BhWQs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnMsyKUpfwk

Don't mind my yapping in the background!  ;D


And here's the formula I used:

802 gr. KABF (100%)
514 gr. Warm water - 95° F (64%)
16 gr. Kosher salt (2%)
12 gr. Organic sugar (1.5%)
12 gr. Garlic-flavored olive oil (1.5%)
4 gr. IDY (.5%)

Single ball: 340 gr. / 14" / Thin crust


I dissolved the sugar in the water first with a whisk then added 75% of the flour and IDY. Using the paddle I mixed it until I had a thick, batter-like consistency. I covered the bowl with a damp tea towel for an hour and then added the rest of the flour, the salt and the oil. I used garlic-infused oil because it adds a bit to the flavor of the crust and since it wasn't a longer cold-rise over a few days time, it's a great alternative imho.

After everything was incorporated, I kneaded the dough for 10 mins on Speed 2 and let it rest again for 30 mins, then another knead for 5 mins, balled it up and in the fridge it went for about two hours. After that time, I took it out, immediately divided it into four balls and proofed them in my wooden proof box for the remainder of the time.
I kept the proof box in the fridge for approx. another 90 mins before I let them come up too room temp.

I preheated my oven for about an hour before the first pizza went in. The crust was very light and airy but had a nice crunch and chew to it. It had some nice coloring, a little char here and there and it yielded great oven spring. Bake time was 7 mins for the first one and 9 mins for the second. Overall, I think it was a good same-day dough.




I used this recipe (percentages ran through the dough calculator) this past weekend to make four (4) 12" inch pies.  Started mixing the dough at 9am, used mostly the same technique describe above.  It went into the fridge at 10:40am.  Out of the Fridge at 2:40pm, and into my oven (set at the lowest temp I could achieve without it being off (~110dgf, measured with my themapen) for proofing for 2.5 hours.  I made all four pies (starting at 5:45pm), the first one being dressed with Escalon 6in1's right out of the can, and local Mozzarella (Fiero's), and some onions and sweet peppers.  The other three (3) were Margherita Style, with Costco fresh Mozzarella ($3.79/#), Campari tomatoes from Costco, and some fresh Basil.  Lots of cracked black pepper and drizzled extra virgin Olive Oil after the pies exited the oven. 

The overall consensus was this was an outstanding pie (specifically the dough and fresh mozzarella).  I really wasn't able to taste any of the sugar (I did not use the organic sugar, straight granular white sugar) which made me very happy.  The dough stretched, but had some elasticity as well, so it was a bit more work getting these to ~12" pies.  Overall, I would use this dough again without hesitation!  The oven was preheated for 45 minutes with 1/2" tiles at 450dgf.  The pies went straight from peel to stones for 10 minutes.  Not burning/charring on the bottom, but the upper crust was a bit pale.  Sorry no pictures, I promise to have them for my next attempts, sometime this coming weekend.  Thanks again Essen1.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 01:28:50 PM by RichC »

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3277
  • Location: SF Bay Area
    • The Hobby Cook
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #45 on: May 05, 2009, 03:33:28 PM »
I used this recipe (percentages ran through the dough calculator) this past weekend to make four (4) 12" inch pies.  Started mixing the dough at 9am, used mostly the same technique describe above.  It went into the fridge at 10:40am.  Out of the Fridge at 2:40pm, and into my oven (set at the lowest temp I could achieve without it being off (~110dgf, measured with my themapen) for proofing for 2.5 hours.  I made all four pies (starting at 5:45pm), the first one being dressed with Escalon 6in1's right out of the can, and local Mozzarella (Fiero's), and some onions and sweet peppers.  The other three (3) were Margherita Style, with Costco fresh Mozzarella ($3.79/#), Campari tomatoes from Costco, and some fresh Basil.  Lots of cracked black pepper and drizzled extra virgin Olive Oil after the pies exited the oven. 

The overall consensus was this was an outstanding pie (specifically the dough and fresh mozzarella).  I really wasn't able to taste any of the sugar (I did not use the organic sugar, straight granular white sugar) which made me very happy.  The dough stretched, but had some elasticity as well, so it was a bit more work getting these to ~12" pies.  Overall, I would use this dough again without hesitation!  The oven was preheated for 45 minutes with 1/2" tiles at 450dgf.  The pies went straight from peel to stones for 10 minutes.  Not burning/charring on the bottom, but the upper crust was a bit pale.  Sorry no pictures, I promise to have them for my next attempts, sometime this coming weekend.  Thanks again Essen1.

Rich,

Glad you liked the dough.  :chef:

In regards to the coloring, I always finish the pie under the broiler for maybe a minute or so, to give the crust some additional browning.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that I always pre-heat the oven at 550° F for an hour, with the stone on the lowest rack and the bake time is around 7-8 mins.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 04:32:22 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline sourdough girl

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 664
  • Location: Marysville, WA
  • First the bread, NOW the pizza dough!
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2009, 04:37:39 PM »
Just as I “hounded” Jim to try JerryMac’s recipe, Mike has been “kindly suggesting on a regular basis"  :-D   >:D  that I try his Marcello’s clone… so here are the results...

I used Stone Buhr bread flour and in place of the garlic oil that Mike suggests, I used EVOO with the tiniest pinch of granulated garlic.  I couldn’t taste the garlic in the crust per se, but I really think it added a certain “je ne sais quoi” to the flavor of the crust.  The sauce was Pomi crushed tomatoes (rather flavorless IMHO) to which I added minced fresh garlic, black pepper, salt, dried homegrown Greek oregano, freshly ground fennel seed and dried basil.

The pizzas were scaled to 12”, but I had a little trouble opening them up that far, so the first couple ended up as about 9” pizzas instead.  Next time, I will let the dough warm up a little longer since I noticed that each pizza was a little easier to stretch.  I baked the first pizza and let the stone recover its heat while we ate… so there was about 10 or more minutes between each bake.

I preheated the oven to 550oF, with the 35o boost, for about 1.5 hours.  Bottom stone temp when I slid the first pizza in was 635o with the upper stone at 600o.  When I slid the pizza in, I set the timer for 5 minutes, but the first pizza was done in about 4.5 minutes.

I topped the first pizza with my usual pepperoni, diced yellow onion and green pepper, sliced black olives and fresh mushrooms.  The cheese was Polly-O whole milk mozz and a little smoked provolone.

The second pizza was prosciutto and fresh mushrooms (DH’s personal favorite) with the same cheeses.

Third pizza was just sauce and cheese.  By the time I baked this one, the stones were even hotter and I didn’t pull the pizza out in time.  The crust was a little hard in spots and the cheese broke down a little.  Still quite edible, though!

I baked a fourth pizza with all the leftover toppings since the recipe makes four seven-ounce balls.  That pizza went straight into the fridge for my breakfast!
 
These pizzas were VERY tasty and as you can see from the slice side view, the oven spring was quite nice.  The dough was still quite cold to the touch when I stretched it, as per Mike’s instructions which probably helped the spring a bit.  Had we not been starving, I would have let the 9” crusts relax a little so I could stretch them further.  As it was, the finished crusts were very crisp on the outside and moist and chewy on the inside… they were WONDERFUL!  DH ate every bite of every slice… which is high praise!

Thanks for a great recipe, Mike... I will be making it again soon!

~mots aka sd
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 04:40:39 PM by sourdough girl »
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21905
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2009, 08:01:16 PM »
Mike,

When you buy pizzas from Marcello's, do you buy only by the slice or do you also buy full pizzas and, if so, are there differences in the slices?

Also, do you know if Marcello's bakes/re-heats pizza on a metal surface or a stone surface?

A Yelp poster, Lindsay, at http://www.yelp.com/biz/marcellos-pizza-san-francisco?rpp=40&sort_by=relevance_desc&start=80, apparently was able to buy dough from Marcello's. Is that a possible option for you to get a better feel for the Marcello's dough and possibly an opportunity to ask questions to get more information on their dough?

Peter

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3277
  • Location: SF Bay Area
    • The Hobby Cook
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #48 on: May 07, 2009, 11:05:55 PM »
Just as I “hounded” Jim to try JerryMac’s recipe, Mike has been “kindly suggesting on a regular basis"  :-D   >:D  that I try his Marcello’s clone… so here are the results...

I used Stone Buhr bread flour and in place of the garlic oil that Mike suggests, I used EVOO with the tiniest pinch of granulated garlic.  I couldn’t taste the garlic in the crust per se, but I really think it added a certain “je ne sais quoi” to the flavor of the crust.  The sauce was Pomi crushed tomatoes (rather flavorless IMHO) to which I added minced fresh garlic, black pepper, salt, dried homegrown Greek oregano, freshly ground fennel seed and dried basil.

The pizzas were scaled to 12”, but I had a little trouble opening them up that far, so the first couple ended up as about 9” pizzas instead.  Next time, I will let the dough warm up a little longer since I noticed that each pizza was a little easier to stretch.  I baked the first pizza and let the stone recover its heat while we ate… so there was about 10 or more minutes between each bake.

I preheated the oven to 550oF, with the 35o boost, for about 1.5 hours.  Bottom stone temp when I slid the first pizza in was 635o with the upper stone at 600o.  When I slid the pizza in, I set the timer for 5 minutes, but the first pizza was done in about 4.5 minutes.

I topped the first pizza with my usual pepperoni, diced yellow onion and green pepper, sliced black olives and fresh mushrooms.  The cheese was Polly-O whole milk mozz and a little smoked provolone.

The second pizza was prosciutto and fresh mushrooms (DH’s personal favorite) with the same cheeses.

Third pizza was just sauce and cheese.  By the time I baked this one, the stones were even hotter and I didn’t pull the pizza out in time.  The crust was a little hard in spots and the cheese broke down a little.  Still quite edible, though!

I baked a fourth pizza with all the leftover toppings since the recipe makes four seven-ounce balls.  That pizza went straight into the fridge for my breakfast!
 
These pizzas were VERY tasty and as you can see from the slice side view, the oven spring was quite nice.  The dough was still quite cold to the touch when I stretched it, as per Mike’s instructions which probably helped the spring a bit.  Had we not been starving, I would have let the 9” crusts relax a little so I could stretch them further.  As it was, the finished crusts were very crisp on the outside and moist and chewy on the inside… they were WONDERFUL!  DH ate every bite of every slice… which is high praise!

Thanks for a great recipe, Mike... I will be making it again soon!

~mots aka sd


Mots,

I'm very happy that you finally got around to trying the dough formula. But more important is the fact that you and DH liked it! The pics looks fantastic, especially the 'slice' photo. Great job!

In regards to the skins being a bit difficult to open up, well, like you suggested I'd let them just warm up a bit longer if you decide to make the dough again. But I don't know if you can call it a "Marcello's" clone just yet. I still am in the process of doing more research on it, but the light and bubbly crust is definitely a start.


Quote
Mike,

When you buy pizzas from Marcello's, do you buy only by the slice or do you also buy full pizzas and, if so, are there differences in the slices?

Also, do you know if Marcello's bakes/re-heats pizza on a metal surface or a stone surface?

A Yelp poster, Lindsay, at http://www.yelp.com/biz/marcellos-pizza-san-francisco?rpp=40&sort_by=relevance_desc&start=80, apparently was able to buy dough from Marcello's. Is that a possible option for you to get a better feel for the Marcello's dough and possibly an opportunity to ask questions to get more information on their dough?

Peter


Peter,

So far I only had the slices but they were just fresh out of the oven. They also make a great Sicilian-style pie from the same crust. The last time I visited for lunch, I took a look at their oven (Rotoflex) and I believe the baking surface is metal.

I have not yet had the opportunity to try a whole pie from them but I did some work for them and received, in addition to their payment, two gift cards for a free pie of any style. So, tomorrow I'll be using one of the gift cards for lunch. Can't wait, actually.  ;D

I didn't know that they also sell their dough and give instructions on how to prepare and bake it. I'm sure it is an option for me, now that I know.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 11:07:41 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3277
  • Location: SF Bay Area
    • The Hobby Cook
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #49 on: May 09, 2009, 03:05:08 PM »
Peter,

I went and picked up a pie yesterday from Marcello’s for lunch.

I did ask them if they sell dough to the public and they do. The owner told me that they sell dough for different sized pizzas. I didn’t buy one, however, because I had no way of storing it until I got home from work. I will pick one up perhaps after work one day next week and see if I can dissect it a little.

In regards to the oven, yes, they actually do bake on the metal surface rather than stone, because according to the owner the stones crack too often and the metal has a life expectancy of about 25 years.

Below are some pics from the pie itself. The crust was great and just like I have described before...light, airy, chewy with nice crunch. I couldn’t eat the entire pizza, obviously, but when I had a cold slice later on, the crust was what I would describe as ‘spongy’ for the lack of a better word. I also believe it has a good amount of sugar in it, but I could be wrong on that. I do think, though, that it is a high-hydration dough. Also, the charring on the underside added a nice touch to the taste, without being overpowering.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/


Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3277
  • Location: SF Bay Area
    • The Hobby Cook
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #50 on: May 09, 2009, 04:18:05 PM »
Just re-heated a couple of left over slices in my toaster oven here at work...it came out still excellent.

So now I'm really wondering how they achieve such a crust and to get such a nice void in the rim.



Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21905
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #51 on: May 09, 2009, 10:15:23 PM »
Mike,

Were you able to taste any sugar in the finished crust or are you assuming that there is sugar in the dough because of the bottom crust coloration? Usually, sugar is omitted or used at very low levels for a NY style dough that is to be baked in a deck oven. If the dough is not fermented long enough to release sugars from the flour naturally, then some sugar might be added to the dough to boost the bottom crust coloration. Rotoflex ovens can come with either metal or stone bake surfaces but I believe their operating temperature is around 500 degrees F (I did not see any higher oven temperatures mentioned at the Rotoflex website). At 500 degrees F, you should get decent caramelization of sugar added to the dough. Do you have any idea as to a typical bake time? A long bake time at around 500 degrees F should allow the dough to dry out enough and become firm with fairly rigid slices (judging from the last two slice photos).

I would guess that the Marcello's dough is a high-hydration dough (because of the large bubbles/voids) with no oil and a low thickness factor. Once you get a dough ball and the corresponding pizza size, and assuming that you get a standard dough ball as they use in their business, you should be able to calculate the thickness factor. That would be a good piece of information to have.

If you can get an idea as to fermentation time, that would help determine a possible yeast quantity and the condition of the dough at the time of baking. Bubbling is common with doughs with short fermentation times and/or shaped while cold. I believe some tempering would be required. Otherwise, it would be difficult to open up a dough ball to full size. Some morning, around 4 AM, you might want to do a stakeout of Marcello's, in your car with an Inspector Clouseau hat and fake mustache, to see when the guy who makes the dough shows up for work. That might give you some clues as to fermentation time, especially if the dough is used for the lunchtime pizzas.

Peter

 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 10:25:19 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3277
  • Location: SF Bay Area
    • The Hobby Cook
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2009, 01:52:49 PM »
Peter,

Quote
Were you able to taste any sugar in the finished crust or are you assuming that there is sugar in the dough because of the bottom crust coloration?

What I did was I pulled apart a piece of the rim and just tasted the white inside dough to get a neutral taste of it, meaning without the outer crispness, sauce, cheese or char and I believe it had a very light, sweet taste to it. And if it's true that the Rotoflex ovens operate at an average temp of 500° F, that would certainly explain the char on the bottom.

Quote
Do you have any idea as to a typical bake time? A long bake time at around 500 degrees F should allow the dough to dry out enough and become firm with fairly rigid slices (judging from the last two slice photos).

Unfortunately, I don't have any time frame but I still have another free pie coming and will go and order in person so that I can time it. The last pizza I went and picked it up myself so it was already done when I got there. It was still very warm and fresh when I got back to work to enjoy it, but the slice in the pic could have cooled down a bit when I took it. The others were a bit floppier.

Quote
If you can get an idea as to fermentation time, that would help determine a possible yeast quantity and the condition of the dough at the time of baking.

Once I get the dough, I will ask how they suggest I should handle or manage the dough, incl. fermentation times, etc. I'll report back on that next week.

I'd love to pull a "Clouseau" on them at 4 in the morning, but their dough operations are in a back room not visible from the street unless you walk into the place. But maybe I could yell "Une Bombe, une bombe" during lunch time to clear the place out to have access to the backroom.  :angel:

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline XanderKane

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 42
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2009, 05:24:39 AM »
Hey Mike,

Its been a good long while since I posted on this board, but I've found my way back around.  Several months back (a year maybe?) I posted on here about finding a good crust recipe as a beginner.  Peter, of course, stepped up to the challenge as he so often does and got me started on something that worked well for me.  Ultimately though it wasn't what I had in mind when I started out on this journey so I decided to come back to the boards and start experimenting with what some others have posted.  Yours has been my favorite so far, so first thank you for posting it.  I'm having some problem with the calculations and I was hoping that you or peter could give me a hand.

I've been working with the following:

516 gr. KABF (100%)
330 gr. Water (64%)
10 gr. Sea Salt (1.9%)
10 gr. Olive Oil (1.9%)
3 gr. IDY (0.6%)
3 gr. Sugar (0.6%)

if I'm not mistaken this formula is for a 14" pizza and makes 3 dough balls.  I like that it creates 3 pies as it seems to make the 24 hour wait worth it as you've got two more at the ready for the next go around so I'd like to keep that.  From here I'm trying to figure out how to size the recipe up for a 15" pizza.  I've searched the forum and done some reading on converting the percentages, but I'm lost when it comes to how much a dough ball should weigh at a given size or what the thickness factor should be.  Any thoughts or suggestions?

Offline JConk007

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 3656
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Lovin my Oven!
    • Flirting with Fire
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2009, 09:59:42 AM »
XK
Use the dough Calculator found on the front page click the pizza making logo on top then dough tools
All you need is your percentages (you Have) and the thickness factor (probably listed somewhere on this thread and wahla you have it.
I used your % with 1% waste factor and just adjusted the thickness factor in the calculator until I came up with the following.
The Thickness factor came out to .065 and got very close to your #s
so plug in the following to the calculator
TF .065
Balls 3
round
Hydration 64%
IDY .6%
Kosher salt 1.9%
Sugar .6%   
that yielded the following not exact but close

Flour         100%     514.37g
Water        64%       329.2 g
IDY             .6%        3.09 g
Salt          1.9%        9.77 g
Sugar         .6%        3.09 g
Total        167%     859.52g
Single Ball  286.51 g

So now simply just change only size to 15" everthing else remains the same and Bingo you get the following for the 3 - 15" dough balls

Flour            100%  590.48g
Water           64%   377.91g
IDY                .6%      3.54g
Salt             1.9%    11.22g
Sugar             .6%     3.54g
Total            167%  986.69g
Single Ball      328.9g

roughly 42 g more for your extra inch
Hope this helps.I know it has really helped me to learn to use this tool, as so many posts refer to %s and we all have different shape and size pans.
John


« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 10:02:51 AM by JConk007 »
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21905
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2009, 11:49:54 AM »
John,

I believe that Bryan (XanderKane) is referring to the dough formulation that Mike posted at Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg69776.html#msg69776. The formulation you referenced in your last post does not include any oil. Moreover, although Mike's formulation produces 872 grams of dough, he used part of that amount of dough to make two dough balls weighing 375 ounces. I assume the difference, 872 - (2 x 375) = 122 g., was scrap. On the basis of using 375 grams of dough to make a 14" pizza, the thickness factor would be (375/28.35)/(3.14159 x 7 x 7) = 0.08593. If the original amount of dough, 872 grams, was used to make three dough balls for three 14" pizzas, then the thickness factor would have been 0.0666. I believe that Bryan is interested in the numbers that Mike actually used to make the 14" pizzas using 375 grams of dough but scaled to 15". Once Bryan clarifies what he is looking for, it should be fairly straightforward to come up with a dough formulation that Bryan can use. In the meantime, Mike might also review what I have said above to be sure that I got everything right.

Peter

Offline XanderKane

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 42
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2009, 12:48:10 PM »
Thanks for the reply, guys. 

Peter has it right, though I think I'd like to increase the thickness factor just slightly as it was a touch thin for my taste.  It almost didn't support the toppings, but then again I was probably stretching it too thin trying to get more mass out of it that was intended. 

John, I did check out the calculator at the front page, but having no idea what the current thickness factor was I wasn't sure what I should be doing.  That's probably a small concern but I'm still a little intimidated by the percentage system.  I understand it in principle, but I haven't experimented with it enough to really have a firm grasp.  I did buy a digital scale which I have been using, but I didn't know what to look for and ended up with one that only goes up in multiples of 2 grams at a time.  Its frustrating and needs to be replaced, but it works for the moment. 

Thanks again for the quick replies.  I hope this clears up any what I'm shooting for.

Offline JConk007

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 3656
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Lovin my Oven!
    • Flirting with Fire
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2009, 02:19:20 PM »
Peter,
OOPs I wondered about the oil but never wentr back to check too busy this week :(
I was really tring to get XK to try the calculator, and give a clear example (- the oil) of how the calculator works Thats why I could not get things to work out to the Grams

Ok so I was looking at the post where he said This is what i have been working with, at reply #53
I will leave future posts that involve the calculator to you and others who can get it right. Proves I am still a rookie.
sorry for any confusion

John
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 02:21:28 PM by JConk007 »
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3277
  • Location: SF Bay Area
    • The Hobby Cook
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2009, 02:27:40 PM »
Quote
In the meantime, Mike might also review what I have said above to be sure that I got everything right.

Peter,

You are, as usual, correct, Sir.  ;D

In my initial reply #9, I had planned on making a 16" pie but decided against it and made a 14" and that left me with some left-over dough since I reduced the weight of the individual dough balls. I planned on using the scrap dough in a different batch (old dough method), but never got to use it for some reason.


Bryan,

Glad to see that you like the dough formula so far. And just as Peter suggested I'd increase the TF a bit and scale the formula up or down, to get it to your liking. In regards to your scale, I'd see if I can get one that measures in 1 gram increments because it is more accurate and you'll have better control of the measurements for your batches.

I ran my formula through the Lehmann Calculator and used a TF of 0.09 for a 15" pie since you mentioned you'd like the skin to be a tad thicker. All the other variables are the same. It also gives you some room to decide how thin or not you want to stretch it.

Here's what I came up with. It's for three 15" inch pizzas.

Flour (100%):    808.4 g  |  28.51 oz | 1.78 lbs
Water (64%):    517.37 g  |  18.25 oz | 1.14 lbs
IDY (.6%):    4.85 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.61 tsp | 0.54 tbsp
Salt (1.9%):    15.36 g | 0.54 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.2 tsp | 1.07 tbsp
Oil (1.9%):    15.36 g | 0.54 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.41 tsp | 1.14 tbsp
Sugar (.6%):    4.85 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.22 tsp | 0.41 tbsp

Total (169%):   1366.19 g | 48.19 oz | 3.01 lbs | TF = 0.0909

Single Ball:   455.4 g | 16.06 oz | 1 lbs

Let us know if you have more questions and how it turned out!  :chef:

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline JConk007

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 3656
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Lovin my Oven!
    • Flirting with Fire
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2009, 02:43:33 PM »
Based on reply #54 I came up with Thickness Factor of .66 and waste 1% for 3 14" balls I come up with the following,  I just want to  make sure I am doing this right, I thought I had it? PLease just check my # using those figures
Does this make sense? very close to that Reply#54 .
Thanks!

3 @14"
Flour               100%   516.42g
Water               64%   330.51
IDY                   .6%   3.1g
Salt                 1.9%   9.81g
Oil                   1.9%   9.81g 
Sugar                .6%    3.1g
total                          872.74g

Single Ball                   290.91g

For 3 @15" with % mentioned at reply 54 1% waste and .66 thickness (pretty thin)
Flour               100%       592.82g
Water               64%       379.41g
IDY                   .6%          3.56g
Salt                 1.9%        11.56g
Oil                   1.9%        11.56g 
Sugar                .6%          3.56g
total                               1001.87g

Single Ball                  333.96 g

Oh Peter, How do I copy from tool to here?
Thanks
JOhn
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 02:56:12 PM by JConk007 »
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com


 

pizzapan