Author Topic: Essen1's NY-style pizza project  (Read 128404 times)

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Offline chickenparm

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #750 on: October 23, 2011, 06:23:13 PM »
I'm a big fan of 12.5-12.7%ish protein flours, so the Mondako, at 11.9, is a little low, while Power, at 13.5, is a bit high, so a blend between the two might be that happy medium.

Mike, All Trumps, at 14, can have issues with toughness.  Have you seen anything like that with the Power Flour?  Have you ever thought to yourself, 'this could be just a little more tender?'

I feel this way about Bouncer flour.I like using it a lot but it seems that mixing times are critical to get it perfect.I want to make it more tender.GM better for bread and KA BF doesn't seem to have the toughness of Bouncer either and fits the bill better,but lacks something the HG flour has.

Sorry,don't mean to hijack,just wanted to respond to that you asked about as well.



 :)
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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #751 on: November 02, 2011, 01:05:17 AM »
I'm a big fan of 12.5-12.7%ish protein flours, so the Mondako, at 11.9, is a little low, while Power, at 13.5, is a bit high, so a blend between the two might be that happy medium.

Mike, All Trumps, at 14, can have issues with toughness.  Have you seen anything like that with the Power Flour?  Have you ever thought to yourself, 'this could be just a little more tender?'

Scotty,

Sorry for the delay.

Trying to stay away a bit from making pies because I fell that I need to go in one direction, crust-wise, and not two or three at the same time.

Have I ever asked myself that question? I think, as with all pizza enthusiasts on here, there's always room for improving a crust. However, I am not sure how far one can take it. There's got to be a limit given the ingredients used and especially if one wants to stay 'pure' and not involve any dough conditioners, additives and the like.

I think it's all a matter of balancing the ingredients, understanding how they interact and what effect they have on the final outcome. Most of that can probably only be achieved by trial and error, especially if someone has the most generic home oven to work with. All of this combines fun, occasional success and the unavoidable frustration into one heaping challenge for home bakers.

I had one dough recently that was too tough...or chewy...but that was not with the PPF flour.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 01:06:50 AM by Essen1 »
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #752 on: November 30, 2011, 11:50:31 PM »
On August 22nd, I used an emergency formula for one of my family members. Over the weekend, I used it again for one of my neighbors and the formula delivers every time (3x so far) I've used it.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg150523.html#msg150523

This formula is definitely something everybody should have hanging around on the fridge or a pin board if a pie is requested on short notice. For the neighbor couple, the guy's vegetarian the girl's not, I topped it with all veggie and one half with pepperoni and sausage. 

Very nice outcome and they really enjoyed this pie.
Mike

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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #753 on: December 01, 2011, 12:07:42 AM »
Absolutely splendid looking pie bro.  I bet everyone loved it. :pizza:
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #754 on: December 01, 2011, 12:28:29 AM »
Very Nice looking pie!Is there anything you would change or add,or was it perfect for the time it was made in?

:)







-Bill

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #755 on: December 01, 2011, 01:00:10 AM »
Thanks, men.

Bill,

No, wouldn't change anything in the formula. I tried and it ended up as a mediocre crust. As an emergency dough, this formula is probably as good as it gets. But...you got to keep your eye on it because it rises and ferments very fast.

The results are very rewarding.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline norma427

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #756 on: December 01, 2011, 10:49:21 AM »
Mike,

Very tasty looking pie!  :)

Norma

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #757 on: December 01, 2011, 06:16:51 PM »
Mike - Unbelievable pie. You inspired me to try this recipe:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16578.0.html

John

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #758 on: December 01, 2011, 08:30:49 PM »
Mike, that is a masterpiece!

CL
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parallei

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #759 on: December 01, 2011, 08:38:07 PM »
Mike,

I'm going to have join the chorus here......absolutely wonderful!

Paul

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #760 on: December 02, 2011, 11:26:40 PM »
Mike - Unbelievable pie. You inspired me to try this recipe:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16578.0.html

John

John,

Thanks for the kind words.

As much as I'd like to take credit for the formula, it didn't come from me. It's basically a Papa John's/Lehmann emergency clone Peter came up with here...

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7892.msg71897/topicseen.html#msg71897

...and which member Grilling 24x7 (John) used here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9453.msg81835.html#msg81835

It's still something I'll go back to if needed.
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #761 on: December 02, 2011, 11:28:08 PM »
Norma, Craig & Paul...

Thanks very much for the nice comments.

This pie was just something I threw together on short notice. The formula has yet to disappoint.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #762 on: December 03, 2011, 10:04:29 AM »
As much as I'd like to take credit for the formula, it didn't come from me. It's basically a Papa John's/Lehmann emergency clone Peter came up with here...

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7892.msg71897/topicseen.html#msg71897

...and which member Grilling 24x7 (John) used here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9453.msg81835.html#msg81835

It's still something I'll go back to if needed.

The dough formulation was adapted from a Tom Lehmann recipe as posted at the PMQ Think Tank at http://www.pmq.com/tt2/recipe/view/id_172/title_Home-Style-Pizza-Crust/. I first reported on that recipe in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7892.msg67686.html#msg67686. At the request of a member, I modified Tom's recipe to meet the stated wishes of the member who wanted to try the recipe. In order to do this, I had to convert Tom's recipe, which was recited with only volume measurements, into a baker's percent format. The hardest part by far was converting the recipe to baker's percent format. While I was at it, I made several changes to the baker's percents (mainly the salt and yeast levels) and I calculated the thickness factor to allow the member, or anyone else for that matter, to be able to scale the recipe up or down and to make any size of pizza. I even came up with a thicker crust version, for a Papa John's style, by using a larger thickness factor value.

In a way, I guess that one might say that I did a remodeling job to meet the needs of the member who asked for my help. I didn't realize that it would turn out as well as it apparently has. Based on Grilling 24 x 7's results, I included the recipes in the collection of "emergency" recipes at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8297.0.html (Item 3 under General). I don't recall that anyone has posted on using Tom's original recipe.

Peter

EDIT (3/22/13): For the updated link to the PMQ recipe, see http://www.pmq.com/Recipe-Bank/index.php/name/New-York-Style-Pizza/record/57724/
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 09:44:20 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #763 on: December 12, 2011, 07:24:02 PM »
Yesterday, I experimented once again - I guess I like this formula - with the Lehmann 'emergency' dough.

I made a couple of minor changes and took a different approach. First off, I used the TF of 0.08 instead of going by weight for an 18" pie. Secondly, I lowered the oil amount from 6.6%(rounded up) to 4.5%, increased the hydration from 56.5% to 60% and the sugar level from 4.3% to 4.5%.

That last move was mistake #1.

I baked the pie on a steel plate for 6 mins at 600F, which was mistake #2. As you can see in the pics, the pie looks good but the bottom was completely black and had a bitter taste. Not good. Although I wouldn't classify this one as a TPF (Total Pizza Failure), it came close.

Since I made dough for two pies I still have one in the fridge and it hasn't blown just yet. I'll be baking this one off tonight at a lower temp, perhaps 525F for 6 mins and perhaps brush the rim with a little oil to aide with the browning.

Overall, though, the crust had a nice structure, light and crunchy, and was foldable. I'll report later on on Pie #2, incl. some pics.

Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #764 on: December 14, 2011, 01:52:02 AM »
Here are the pics from the second "Lehmann" E-dough, which stayed in the fridge for 24 hrs without actually blowing. I used the Power Flour and maybe the higher gluten content and therefore stronger matrix held it all together but I'm not sure about that.

Anyway, this one was baked on a steel plate, middle rack at 545F for 5 mins with no broiler. It had excellent crunch, foldability and taste. But...there's always a but, I guess...I made another mistake and that was brushing the rim with a bit too much oil which gave the outer crust a slight oily flavor and texture. Another lesson learned.

Other than that, it was a great pie.

I also tested for the first time Restaurant Depot's house brand Mozzarella "Supremo Italiano". Not bad. Actually, not bad at all. It's a great cheese, to be honest, with good melting capabilities, nice taste and texture. Mix it at a 75/25 ratio with a low-moisture whole milk and you might get really close to the Grande for about half the price per pound.

Pics...

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

scott123

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #765 on: December 14, 2011, 07:59:40 AM »
Mike, I want you to see something  ;D

scott123

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #766 on: December 14, 2011, 08:07:38 AM »
Are you seeing what I'm seeing?  Are you still sold on Avellino's 10 minute bake time?  ;D

Joking aside, it's a beautiful pie.  You're took a somewhat circuitous route away from NY pizza, and with the drop in oil, back into the NY realm, but, hey, whatever gets you there. :) Obviously, you're going to continue tweaking, as we all do, but I think you're at a point now where you can see what steel can do and what cordierite can't.

That cheese is definitely a keeper- assuming, of course, that you didn't have to buy so much of it that you can't use it up quickly.

This is a very Avellino-ish pie. That may not even have been your goal, but that's the result.  If you did want to go a little more in that direction, I might drop the oil a tiny bit more and go with a bit more sauce- but the level of sauce could very well be what you prefer. The Avellino pie does, imo, have a slightly better aesthetic, though, because of the redness of the sauce.

This all being said, really really nice work.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 08:14:49 AM by scott123 »


Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #767 on: December 14, 2011, 04:51:19 PM »
Are you seeing what I'm seeing?  Are you still sold on Avellino's 10 minute bake time?  ;D

Joking aside, it's a beautiful pie.  You're took a somewhat circuitous route away from NY pizza, and with the drop in oil, back into the NY realm, but, hey, whatever gets you there. :) Obviously, you're going to continue tweaking, as we all do, but I think you're at a point now where you can see what steel can do and what cordierite can't.

That cheese is definitely a keeper- assuming, of course, that you didn't have to buy so much of it that you can't use it up quickly.

This is a very Avellino-ish pie. That may not even have been your goal, but that's the result.  If you did want to go a little more in that direction, I might drop the oil a tiny bit more and go with a bit more sauce- but the level of sauce could very well be what you prefer. The Avellino pie does, imo, have a slightly better aesthetic, though, because of the redness of the sauce.

This all being said, really really nice work.

Scotty,

Yes, I'm seeing what you're seeing. However, I think that was a coincidence, crust-wise, not bake times. I think I'm starting to get a handle on baking with steel. Took awhile and will still take some tweaking of formulas but it's been fun so far.

The cheese was very good. I might try the 75/25 combo.

Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #768 on: December 18, 2011, 06:15:52 PM »
A bit more steel plate baking from last night...

Temp was around 560F. Bake time 5 mins...

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Pizza01

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #769 on: December 18, 2011, 06:32:35 PM »
Looks good mike!

Offline norma427

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #770 on: December 18, 2011, 07:06:19 PM »
Mike,

Your pizza sure looks great!  :) What TF did you use?

Norma

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #771 on: December 18, 2011, 07:07:37 PM »
Michael & Norma,

Thanks for the kind words.


Norma,

the TF was 0.08 for an 18" pie. I think I stretched the pie a bit uneven, though, because there were thin spots and a couple of thicker ones. Got to be more consistent  :-[
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #772 on: December 19, 2011, 07:52:37 PM »
Baked off the other dough ball I had sitting in the fridge for 48hrs.

Steel plate, 560F, middle rack, 5 mins, no broiler. I'm getting the hang of baking with steel it seems.

Pie came out great.



Mike

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scott123

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #773 on: December 20, 2011, 03:48:56 PM »
Mike, it looks like you can make this particular recipe with one hand tied behind your back.  Now that you've fully gotten the hang of the steel plate, I'd like to see you, at some point, delve into something a little more NYish by decreasing the oil and sugar. 

Earlier in this thread you said this about Avellino's crust:

Quote
The exterior of the crust was very crunchy but had a moist, almost creamy-like interior.

You can achieve this with more water. If you're still working with the power flour, then I suggest going back to the 63-65 realm you were working with before. Now, as you increase the water, the crumb will get more moist/creamy, but, you'll lose some of your exterior crunch. The only way to get Avellino's exterior crunch with a moist crumb is to re-heat the slice after it's cooked.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #774 on: December 20, 2011, 11:29:42 PM »
Mike, it looks like you can make this particular recipe with one hand tied behind your back.  Now that you've fully gotten the hang of the steel plate, I'd like to see you, at some point, delve into something a little more NYish by decreasing the oil and sugar. 

Earlier in this thread you said this about Avellino's crust:

You can achieve this with more water. If you're still working with the power flour, then I suggest going back to the 63-65 realm you were working with before. Now, as you increase the water, the crumb will get more moist/creamy, but, you'll lose some of your exterior crunch. The only way to get Avellino's exterior crunch with a moist crumb is to re-heat the slice after it's cooked.

Scotty,

I didn't use the Lehmann E-dough for the last two pies you see above. I used member Fazzari's (John) dough shown here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16761.msg163416.html#msg163416

I chose the second option he posted and bulk-fermented the dough for 12 hrs, then balled it and fermented it for another 12 hrs. That was the first pie. The second one I baked off received a fermentation of 48 hrs total, 12 bulk and 36 individual. Both pies came out excellent and I want to thank John for the formula.

The only thing I did changed, though, was the hydration. I increased it from 58% to 60%. I'm still using the PPF and since I have now a steady source to get it, I'm sure I'll be using it for some time in the future. I love this flour. It's definitely one of the best I have worked with and I can really recommend this to any member on here, even though it's not bromated.

Anyway, I have another little project lined up over the next two or three days before I'll give your suggestion a try, such as lowering the oil and sugar but increasing the hydro. Will do that stat once my other project is done.


To John (Fazzari):

Your dough was a great one but may,...may!..., need some tweaking for baking with a steel plate. Excellent stuff, though.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein


 

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