Essen1's NY-style pizza project

[Bob1]

Good luck

Bob

[Essen1]

Thanks.

[Essen1]

Bob,

Found the model Number:

GE  JBS27DMBB

Parts are still available apparently:

http://www.partselect.com/ModelFrames.aspx?ModelID=390627&ModelNum=JBS27DM1BB&mfgModelNum=&ManufactureID=2&Selected=00124907i02&Position=1&mfg=GE&Type=&Mark=1

[Matthew]

How is the counter top oven?  any pie pics?

AZ

The new oven is awesome.  Not as good as my WFO but blows away any conventional oven.  It makes fantastic NY Elite/ NH style.   I haven't taken many pics lately but will this weekend.

Mike,
My leafs are as bad this year as in previous years. The last time they had a team worthy of praise was when Pat Burns (God rest his soul) was the coach.

Matt

[Essen1]

New oven.

Maintenance guys were here yesterday and didn't even look at the old one to see what's wrong with it. They brought a new oven just with them.

So I gave it a test run last night with a dough I made the night before and bingo...worked like a charm. The oven came up to temperature in about an hour and the pie went in at roughly 605°F. 8 mins later I had a nicely browned crust. No blisters because I didn't use the broiler but nice nonetheless.

With second pie I gave a little nod to Serious Pie...well, at least shape-wise. 


Matt,

I thought the Leafs would be thriving under Wilson since the guy has had a ton of success as a coach. he did a great job with the Sharks. Leafs had a good start this season and then tanked...what's up with that? And don't get me started on the Sharks. Inconsistent, at best.

[norma427]

Mike,

I really like the looks of your first pie.  The edges are so golden brown and your pie is very artisan looking.  Great job!    

Norma

[Essen1]

Thanks, Norma!

The second one was baked a little too long hence the really brown crust. Now, I'm not complaining, I'm happy that my coloration issue is hopefully over 

[Matthew]

New oven.

Maintenance guys were here yesterday and didn't even look at the old one to see what's wrong with it. They brought a new oven just with them.

So I gave it a test run last night with a dough I made the night before and bingo...worked like a charm. The oven came up to temperature in about an hour and the pie went in at roughly 605°F. 8 mins later I had a nicely browned crust. No blisters because I didn't use the broiler but nice nonetheless.

With second pie I gave a little nod to Serious Pie...well, at least shape-wise. 


Matt,

I thought the Leafs would be thriving under Wilson since the guy has had a ton of success as a coach. he did a great job with the Sharks. Leafs had a good start this season and then tanked...what's up with that? And don't get me started on the Sharks. Inconsistent, at best.

Great job as always bro.  Let's see how long this one lasts

I don't know about Wilson; still undecided about him.  Don Cherry lives on my street & we have had quite a few chats over Mr.Wilson.  Your right; they started the year full of piss & vinegar & then went back to the Leafs of old.  The good thing is, is that they are the youngest team in the league so they have a really good opportunity to grow as a team.  The reality is that it doesn't matter how bad they are or have been as it's next to impossible to get tickets to any games.  Unless of course Don Cherry just happens to live on your street.

Matt

[Essen1]

Great job as always bro.  Let's see how long this one lasts

I don't know about Wilson; still undecided about him.  Don Cherry lives on my street & we have had quite a few chats over Mr.Wilson.  Your right; they started the year full of piss & vinegar & then went back to the Leafs of old.  The good thing is, is that they are the youngest team in the league so they have a really good opportunity to grow as a team.  The reality is that it doesn't matter how bad they are or have been as it's next to impossible to get tickets to any games.  Unless of course Don Cherry just happens to live on your street.

Matt

Hopefully longer than two years, bro.


But are you serious??? Don Cherry lives on your street?? That guy's a character to say the least. Ask him if he's got one of those crazy suits for me. Maybe with a pizza design on it 

Wilson is a good coach and I think the Leafs are still in a re-building phase. However, RW can also be a passive-aggressive a-hole with his players. He did the same thing in San Jose and a few of the players left because of that, i.e. Scott Hannan.

But give the Leafs maybe one more season and let Brian Burke do some magic and things will be fine. Unless, of course, the new ownership doesn't mess it up.

[Essen1]

Okay...

Back to the Marcello's thing. 

I just had lunch over there again after the owner's girlfriend came into our store for some repairs. I chatted with her a little about their Rotoflex oven. Turns out they don't bake on steel decks. I asked if it was outfitted with Fibrament decks since I heard that they also make decks for the Rotoflex ovens. She told me that they bake on some sort of composite hearth deck at 550°F but she didn't know what the composite deck is made of.

She also asked me if I'd put oil in my dough. I said that I have made it with and without oil.

Anyway, I took some pics and this time I had a whole hour for lunch and enough time to check the slices out a bit closer. First off, the cornicione was very - no, make that extremely - light and very puffy. It also had some weight to it which struck me as odd given the lightness when I bit into it.

Secondly, I took a closer look at their sauce. I did not detect any added spices, taste-wise or visually. Nothing. The sauce struck me as a very deeply red, fresh-tasting heavy tomato puree, for the lack of better words. I also didn't taste any sugar or excessive salt. Just plain fresh tomato.

The bottom of the crust showed signs of a healthy charring without being burnt. The crust itself was very thin with a huge puffy rim. It was foldable and the tip showed some flop.

The cheese was distributed sparingly but still covered the slices nicely with some red spots showing through. Just the right amount.

Also, I bought two doughballs this time. When I picked them up from the counter I was a little surprised by their weight. I have a feeling that they gave me two doughballs for an 18 or perhaps 20" pie. Tonight I'll check them out and take some pic with my digital cam instead of my cell phone since I'm still at work. Good thing is, though, that it's cold here and I have the dough sitting outside. Hopefully it won't be overproofed by the time I get home...

Some pics of the Marcello's slices:



Correction:

I didn't mean to say "very bright" when it comes to their sauce. My bad. I should have said a very deeply red, almost like the color of a fire truck, kind of color. I corrected it.

[Matthew]

Hopefully longer than two years, bro.


But are you serious??? Don Cherry lives on your street?? That guy's a character to say the least. Ask him if he's got one of those crazy suits for me. Maybe with a pizza design on it 

Yes it's true.  He's a really great guy.  My 3 year old son thinks he's the coolest guy ever & my 5 year old daughter freaks out everytime she sees him on tv & always tells him that she saw him on tv.  Ya, he's got some pretty different suits, that's for sure.   Most of the time I see him he's in track pants cutting his lawn;  he's far to modest to hire someone to do it for him.  All around nice guy, always takes the time to walk over & say hi.

[Essen1]

That's great! Sounds like a cool neighbor to have.

If I'd live in Toronto, I'd hit you up for some tix. 

[Essen1]

I was really anxious to get home with the two dough balls I've purchased from Marcello's today.

When I open the boxes the first thing I noticed how tight the surface skin was. I did a smell test and was somewhat surprised...I didn't even detect just faint smell of yeast. None. Both dough balls smelled more like flour and water than anything else.

I took them out of the box and weight them. 909gr. & 908gr. respectively. Since I cannot make a pie with a dough ball weight of 909gr., which I assume is for an 18" or perhaps 20" pizza, I cut them in half and reshaped them. That proved to be a bit difficult because the dough had its own mind. But before reshaping I smelled it again, this time at the cut surface and still no yeasty aroma. The dough is also very low on hydration. My guess is that the hydration must be somewhere in the ballpark of 56-58%, maybe 59%.

However, during re-shaping I did notice a few bubbles pop up and the dough deflated a bit. Not much, though. But it showed that there was some activity going on inside. But it wasn't overproofed at all. Luc once told me that she makes a fresh batch (batches?) of 400lbs of dough every day and I noticed with every visit that they have most of the dough balls sitting right next to the oven on trays, maybe 2 or 3 feet away, and covered with plastic wrap.

I have two dough balls resting on the counter right now, under a damp kitchen towel waiting to go into the oven a little later.


Summary of it all?

Very low-hydration, no yeasty smell, tight skin surface, extremely light texture when baked.

At least now I have a few reference points to go by and I know what the dough feels like in its raw stages. I just have to find a corresponding formula that I can use at home.

[gtsum2]

that is a good looking pie right there!  You are right, that is a very deep red color sauce...I am looking forward to seeing your upcoming pics!

[norma427]

Mike,

Those dough balls that you have in your possession look something like Mack's dough balls.  The color is about the same.  Mack's dough balls didn't look like a high hydration either.  Will be interesting to see how the dough bakes.    I still haven't been able to figure out the right formula for Mack's dough.  I hope your quest goes well.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Mike,

I took a look at Marcello's menu at http://www.marcellospizzasf.com/menu.html and it appears that the largest size pizza they make is 18". The roughly 908 grams of dough translates to about 32 ounces. That is a lot of dough even for an 18" pizza. The corresponding thickness factor would be [(908/28.35)/(3.14159 x 9 x 9)] = 0.12586. Since you cut the dough balls in half, if you want to achieve the same physical characteristics as the 18" size using 16 ounces of dough, you would make a pizza of a diameter of 12.72", or roughly 12 3/4" (it is 2 times the square root of 16 divided by 3.14159 times 0.12586).

Peter

[Essen1]

I baked the first two pies last night and tried to emulate the Marcello's look.

Let's just say that I now have definite proof that, even with the same dough, it is very hard to emulate a pizzeria pizza at home. If not impossible. Yes, we may all come somewhat close but I have the feeling that no matter what, it will never be quite the same. But I guess that's already common knowledge here.

Anyway, the longer rest time - buying the dough at two o'clock in the afternoon and using it around eight o'clock the same night has probably also something to do with it compared to a dough that was made the same day and perhaps was intended for use during lunch time, who knows. I don't really know if Marcello's makes 400 lbs of dough in one or two batches in the morning or if they spread it out over the course of the day.

Back to Marcello's look and feel of the dough. I did a shorter bake time than I usually do with my homemade doughs because I didn't want too much browning! Ironic, isn't it, given my last complaints of not getting enough? 

I went with a six minute bake and kept the toppings to a minimum, just cheese, sauce and a few mushrooms slices. Nothing too heavy. I also tried to keep the puffy and large rim which wasn't too difficult given the weight of the two dough balls. The dough still came out extremely light and airy, had what seemed a greater crunch to it especially on the bottom and it was overall a good pizza. However, the outside surface of the rim seemed a lot crunchier and drier compared to a pie that's baked at Marcello's. It was still different in a few aspects compared to a pizza from Marcello's. Their pizza is more delicate, seems way more authentic NY-style than anything I have made at home so far.

Furthermore, I now completely understand what Luc of Marcello's meant when she told me that pizza dough should be tailored to one's oven at hand and not the other way around. Same dough, two very different ovens...totally different outcome. To me this means I have to give a different approach a go and perhaps concentrate more on the characteristic of my oven in order to achieve the balance I'm looking for. Should be interesting...

Some pics from last night.

[Essen1]

Norma,

I have no clue what the Mack dough should look like or feel like but from your description you might be correct.


Peter,

I made two 14" pies out of the two dough balls. I don't know to what TF that correlates but it was in line with the thickness of the crust I see at Marcello's.

Anyway, I have come up with a low-hydration formula (haven't tried it yet) and would like to see what you think. I know that sometimes you can tell by looking at a formula if it's a workable one or if it requires a few tweaks and it would be great if you could glance over it and see if it might need something else?

This is for two 400gr dough balls:

496gr. F     100%
288gr. W     58%
10gr. Salt      2%
5gr. Sugar     1%
1gr. IDY         .2%

Any suggestions?

[NY pizzastriver]

Mike, that's a beautiful rim rise there, outstanding. I commend you for always trying to improve and try new things. Well done, and happy holidays everyone.

[Essen1]

Mike, that's a beautiful rim rise there, outstanding. I commend you for always trying to improve and try new things. Well done, and happy holidays everyone.

Jimbo,

I wish I could take full credit for it but it was a dough I bought here at a local pizza shop. I'm working on it, though 

Happy Holidays to you, too.