Author Topic: Essen1's NY-style pizza project  (Read 101460 times)

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Offline Ev

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #840 on: August 24, 2012, 05:51:05 PM »
What's not to love about that pie? Looks great!


Offline scott123

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #841 on: August 24, 2012, 06:05:54 PM »
Mike, Armando's is, unfortunately, for most New Yorkers, the 'real deal,' and this last pizza blows Armando's out of the water, so, in that sense, you've far surpassed the 'real deal.'  Unless, by 'real deal,' you're talking about Avellino's.  The undercrust is pretty much flawless- I don't think they can top you on that.  The rim crumb looks excellent as well.  The undercrust crumb, though, could be a tiny bit more moist/creamier/finer, like the pizza you did here

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg165107.html#msg165107

If you take this undercrust crumb (minus the toppings, of course) and combine it with all the features of this most recent pie, I think you'll have perfection.

On a separate note, based upon the superior results you're seeing with cordierite-mullite, I've made the decision to reach out to kiln shelf purveyors to see if any of them has any control over the recipes for their shelves, and, if they do, would it be possible to create a shelf with an even higher conductivity. I still love steel, but, for many people, steel is just too heavy. Most shelves are imported from China, but I'm hoping there's an outfit or two that makes their own shelves and is willing to alter their recipe to better suit the pizza community's needs.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #842 on: August 24, 2012, 06:42:42 PM »
Thanks, Ev & Jeff!

Much appreciated  ;D
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

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parallei

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #843 on: August 24, 2012, 06:58:27 PM »
Well, you've been away for awhile, but you stepped back up to the plate with some fine looking pizza Mike. 8)

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #844 on: August 24, 2012, 07:18:09 PM »
Mike, Armando's is, unfortunately, for most New Yorkers, the 'real deal,' and this last pizza blows Armando's out of the water, so, in that sense, you've far surpassed the 'real deal.'  Unless, by 'real deal,' you're talking about Avellino's.  The undercrust is pretty much flawless- I don't think they can top you on that.  The rim crumb looks excellent as well.  The undercrust crumb, though, could be a tiny bit more moist/creamier/finer, like the pizza you did here

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg165107.html#msg165107

If you take this undercrust crumb (minus the toppings, of course) and combine it with all the features of this most recent pie, I think you'll have perfection.

On a separate note, based upon the superior results you're seeing with cordierite-mullite, I've made the decision to reach out to kiln shelf purveyors to see if any of them has any control over the recipes for their shelves, and, if they do, would it be possible to create a shelf with an even higher conductivity. I still love steel, but, for many people, steel is just too heavy. Most shelves are imported from China, but I'm hoping there's an outfit or two that makes their own shelves and is willing to alter their recipe to better suit the pizza community's needs.


Scotty,

Thanks a bunch for the compliment.

When I heard the comments ("too chewy, too dense") from my folks, I figured that the PPF, with all its superiority to the retail level flours, might have to be blended with some AP flour to reduce the protein level a bit. I had best results with a 65% hydration but when blended I thought lowering that a bit makes sense.

Anyway, Armando the guy who I have been talking pizza with on a regular basis. He's really knowledgeable but is also, unfortunately, limited in what he can do at the shop since he's not the owner.

When I'm talking the "real deal" on the San Fran level there's only two places that might be able to hold a candle to the pies & slices from NYC and that's Marcello's and Avellino. There's also Escape from NY & Arinell's but, imho, they're the runner-ups.

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on Rays of Prince Street in NYC? It's closed now but was hailed as the original Ray's and although I have never had the chance to eat a slice from Ray's, rumor has it that it's been one of the best in NYC.

Regarding the Thorley kiln shelf...when I bought mine it was a big step up to the American Metalcraft cordierite I had before. It holds the heat much, much better and recovers very nicely. I think it was you who suggested these guys here:

http://www.ceramicssf.com/shelves-posts.htm


Below are those slices I have used for inspiration and put mine in there, too, for comparison.  :)

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #845 on: August 24, 2012, 07:19:08 PM »
Well, you've been away for awhile, but you stepped back up to the plate with some fine looking pizza Mike. 8)

Thank you very much, Sir!  :)

I caved and gave in to the pizza craving. But the time off was necessary to get back in shape.
Mike

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http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Online norma427

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #846 on: August 24, 2012, 09:05:00 PM »
Mike,

Great looking pizza!  ;D  Good to see you back on the forum posting pictures of your pies.

Norma
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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #847 on: August 24, 2012, 09:22:31 PM »
Mike,

Great looking pizza!  ;D  Good to see you back on the forum posting pictures of your pies.

Norma

Norma,

Thanks a million! I think I'll stick around for awhile  ;D
Mike

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http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #848 on: August 24, 2012, 09:27:18 PM »
Thank you very much, Sir!  :)

I caved and gave in to the pizza craving. But the time off was necessary to get back in shape.

I understand that, but sometimes it seems really appealing to just give up and weigh over 3 bucks and eat pizza 24/7

Online norma427

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #849 on: August 24, 2012, 09:35:16 PM »
Norma,

Thanks a million! I think I'll stick around for awhile  ;D

Mike,

I am glad you are going to stick around for awhile.  ;D I missed your posts and pizzas here on the forum.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline scott123

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #850 on: August 24, 2012, 09:36:02 PM »
I'm wondering what your thoughts are on Rays of Prince Street in NYC? It's closed now but was hailed as the original Ray's and although I have never had the chance to eat a slice from Ray's, rumor has it that it's been one of the best in NYC.


I was only able to make it to Rays on Prince once, but, from talking to other people, Ray's went through a similar descent in quality that Joes experienced.  Not the crater that the rest of NY suffered through, but still a drop.  The slice I had was solid, but not on par with any of the great slices further outside Manhattan. As you can see from the photo here:

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/02/where-is-the-original-first-rays-famous-pizzeria-nyc.html?ref=title

the crumb is looking a lot like a quick, taste impaired fermentation.

Honestly, you can certainly continue to tweak your process in search of some ultimate goal, but, as far as NY style pizza goes... your fully on par or better than any of the places you have pictured, and better than 99.9% of the pizzerias in NY.  You might even have pizzatown and new park beat.  At this point, you're really only competing with yourself. Once you surpass your idols, it can become a bit of a head game, and you can start questioning yourself, but, as long as you have clear goals that you're striving for, you can continue to grow.

Btw, what kind of cheese is this?  It's hard to judge the cheese with the aid of the extra fat from pepperoni, but it looks a lot like you've got it worked out.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #851 on: August 24, 2012, 10:01:58 PM »
I was only able to make it to Rays on Prince once, but, from talking to other people, Ray's went through a similar descent in quality that Joes experienced.  Not the crater that the rest of NY suffered through, but still a drop.  The slice I had was solid, but not on par with any of the great slices further outside Manhattan. As you can see from the photo here:

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/02/where-is-the-original-first-rays-famous-pizzeria-nyc.html?ref=title

the crumb is looking a lot like a quick, taste impaired fermentation.

Honestly, you can certainly continue to tweak your process in search of some ultimate goal, but, as far as NY style pizza goes... your fully on par or better than any of the places you have pictured, and better than 99.9% of the pizzerias in NY.  You might even have pizzatown and new park beat.  At this point, you're really only competing with yourself. Once you surpass your idols, it can become a bit of a head game, and you can start questioning yourself, but, as long as you have clear goals that you're striving for, you can continue to grow.

Btw, what kind of cheese is this?  It's hard to judge the cheese with the aid of the extra fat from pepperoni, but it looks a lot like you've got it worked out.


Scotty,

You may be right about the 'head games'.

It's a thing that I have where I feel it can always be a tad better. I'm no perfectionist by any stretch but as a huge pizza fan (the last few months where sheer hell  ;D) it's always a new challenge. So far, though, I think this home dough can certainly hang with the likes of Avellino or Marcello's. Don't know about Pizza Town or New park but I take your word for it, even if you can base your judgement solely on some of my pics.

I have a standing offer from Luc and Annie, the owners of Marcello's, to test my dough in their Rotoflex oven. And since they are customers of mine (currently doing a service job for them) I have to take them up on their offer. Hopefully some time soon.

The cheese, believe it or not, is the TJ's brand of low-moisture whole milk mozzarella. It has excellent melting capabilities, strings nicely, has exceptional flavor...well, for a mozzarella that is...and is on the creamy side. The pics I posted look a bit different on here (more reddish) than when I pull them up on my screen for some reason, though.

I think the next cheese I'll check out will be the Bella Rosano from Costco.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 10:43:14 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

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http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #852 on: August 24, 2012, 10:06:40 PM »
What is the price per LB on the TJ mozz if I may ask?

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #853 on: August 24, 2012, 10:22:57 PM »
What is the price per LB on the TJ mozz if I may ask?

Jeffrey,

It sells for $4.99.
Mike

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Offline communist

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #854 on: August 27, 2012, 09:26:21 AM »
Mike, Fantastic NY pies!  As far as some critics saying "too chewy", is your mixing a factor is this?  I do a NY pie with All Trumps, but have my mixing down to 3 minutes with my Kitchen Aid ( speed one for 2 minutes, and speed 2 for one minute ).  I see you are moving the mixing time down. Perhaps if you keep the Pendelton, but just lower mix time even more?  I am interested to see your results if you try this on your steel plate.  Keep the pics coming!   Mark

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #855 on: August 27, 2012, 11:39:25 AM »
I do a NY pie with All Trumps, but have my mixing down to 3 minutes with my Kitchen Aid...

Similarly, I'm doing 3-1/2 minutes in a KitchenAid with All Trumps right now, and I may go lower. In a couple weeks, after I get real accustomed to the results of the short mix time, I may change up to an 8 or 10-minute mix, just to see how much difference it makes.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #856 on: August 29, 2012, 02:08:52 AM »
Did a 24 hour cold-rise with the same formula. Only change I made was I dropped the ADY from .3% down to .2% because I didn't want to overferment.

Here's a text I received from a friend of mine...

Quote
FWD: OMG-best pizza ever! Thin crispy crust , great toppings. Over the top! Your best crust to date!! Thx for sharing!

And she is one of my long time guinea pigs when it comes to pizza  ;D What you see in the pics is the same pie just under different lighting conditions (Kitchen and outdoors).

I think I have it dialed in, in terms of my home oven. The next task will be to test the dough in two different commercial ovens (Rotoflex & Baker's Pride) and see what happens then.

Any pointers or advice on how to adjust a dough for a commercial oven is greatly appreciated since I don't know very little about commercial ovens and their characteristics other than what I have read...

 ???

Mike

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Offline Ev

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #857 on: August 29, 2012, 06:56:23 AM »
Looks like a mighty fine pie! :D

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #858 on: August 29, 2012, 07:23:27 AM »
Looks like a mighty fine pie! :D

Steve,

No, it's a Mikey-fine pie :-D.

Peter

Online norma427

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #859 on: August 29, 2012, 08:01:05 AM »
Mike,

I agree that you pizza looks great.   :chef:

To explain how to change or not change your formulation for a commercial oven, it is all though testing in my opinion.  My different formulations all bake different in my deck oven and even which side of the oven that is used, or exactly how hot the deck (from opening and shutting the doors) are all what determines how the pies will bake.  Even a difference of about 25 degrees F on my deck can make a difference in how my different pies will look after they are baked.

You are lucky to be able to try a Rotoflex and a Bakerís Pride.  ;D  Do you know what temperatures they run each of the ovens?

Norma
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