Essen1's NY-style pizza project

[Ev]

Steve,

No, it's a Mikey-fine pie .

Peter

 I stand corrected! 

[Essen1]

Steve,

No, it's a Mikey-fine pie .

Peter

That's funny! 

Thanks Peter & Steve.

Norma,

They both run their ovens at 525°F - 550°F. At least that's what I was told.

[PetersPizza]

Inspired by this topic and Scott's NY passion in the 'The Reinhart Dialog' I had give it a shot.

These were made using the formulation on page 1 of this topic

King Arthur BF (3 balls, 14”, 325 gr. each, Bake time: 7 mins)

587 gr. Flour (100%)
370 gr. Water (63%)
9 gr. Sea salt (1.5%)
6 gr. Olive oil (1%)
2 gr. IDY (0.3%)

Mixed by hand for 2-3 minutes, rested for 15 and hand kneaded for 12 minutes.
Then left to bulk rise for 2 days; scaled/balled and taken out about 40 minutes before baking.
Baked on a preheated cordierite stone at 550F(likely higher stone temp) for 5 minutes than removed for 1-2 minutes while the broiler heated up.
Broiled for about 40 seconds.
The cheese was Galbani low-moisture WM and a bit of some no-name provolone. Finished with strips of fresh mozzarella, added before broiling.
Sauce was jovail whole peeled tomatoes with salt, basil and oregano.

Seems these pics were too large for the built-in file attachment, here are the fickr links. Is there a way to embed them?

Due to low light they seem much darker than they were.
Three pies.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8460/7987342656_5fa8da51b3_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8295/7987335229_b11a1f80bd_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8444/7987341072_5e9b486631_b.jpg
Undercrust
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8306/7987340166_30b69e4596_b.jpg
Crumb
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8457/7987350452_c424748eaa_b.jpg

Anyway let me know what you think...since this is my second NY style experiment any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
Spent the last few days browsing through this pizza heaven  

-Peter (another peter)

[AimlessRyan]

Anyway let me know what you think...since this is my second NY style experiment any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

Looks damn good, even if it had been your thousandth experiment.

[PetersPizza]

Thanks Ryan. I might start another topic to get some more comments. (or if a mod sees this please split my post)

-Peter

[Essen1]

Back with a little project this weekend.

I've had a brief conversation here in SF with a NY-style pizza shop owner recently and he mentioned the use of yeast & baking powder/soda as a combo, claiming it produces a very light and airy crust. Now, I have heard and read about this combination before but don't really know how to go about it or what percentages we're talking here.

I was thinking to start perhaps with a 1-1.5% value for the baking powder/soda but am not really sure. Any help is appreciated.

[norma427]

Back with a little project this weekend.

I've had a brief conversation here in SF with a NY-style pizza shop owner recently and he mentioned the use of yeast & baking powder/soda as a combo, claiming it produces a very light and airy crust. Now, I have heard and read about this combination before but don't really know how to go about it or what percentages we're talking here.

I was thinking to start perhaps with a 1-1.5% value for the baking powder/soda but am not really sure. Any help is appreciated.

Mike,

I don’t know how much help this will give you, but here goes what I might understand, and I really don‘t understand a lot.

I went down the path of trying to use a chemical leavening systems in combination with yeast in the mystery dough thread for a dry mix for a pizza dough, but it got too complicated for me to understand.

When chemical leavenings are used, they are usually a combination of baking soda sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and sodium aluminum phosphate commonly referred to as SALP.  I think there are baking powders that include both.  I think I used Calumet Baking powder which is a double acting baking powder in some of my experiments, or it might have been Clabber Girl.  I would have to looked it you wanted me to.

An improvement over using just baking powder is product called WRISE.

http://pmq.com/mag/2005september-october/lehmann.php

This is one formulation for using yeast and baking powder on this PDF.

http://www.lallemand.com/BakerYeastNA/eng/PDFs/LBU%20PDF%20FILES/2_1PIZZA.PDF

Another place to read about a product call Dough-Rise is at http://www.innophos.com/__sitedocs/brochures/doughrisefaq.pdf

A product called Wrise can be bought to use in combination with yeast. 

http://www.thewrightgroup.net/products/products/wrise.html

And maybe a place to purchase Wrise.

http://www.modernistpantry.com/wrise-aluminum-free.html

I think some frozen pizzas use a chemical leavening system in combination with yeast.

I did get a PDF. From Tom Lehmann, but it was too technical for me to understand.

Good luck with your experiment. 

Norma

[Essen1]

Call me crazy...

Just got back from running an errand, stopped at Marcello's Pizza for a slice and probably had the biggest pizza dough epiphany of my life...Soft Pretzel Dough!

A sheath of crunch on the outside and inside's a soft, creamy, buttery interior.

That is what Marcello's dough/crust reminds me of.

To the T. But that also brings up a question...now what? 

[dmcavanagh]

Essen1, if you're interested I recently made a soft pretzel dough for a "challenge" concept we had on a facebook page. The pretzel was delicious and very simple to make, my recipe was 3 cups bread flour, 1/4 cup of inactive sourdough culture (just for flavor) 1 teaspoon IDY, 1 teaspoon salt, 7 oz. filtered water. It made a damn good soft pretzel and I'm sure you could tweak it for a pizza dough.

[Essen1]

Essen1, if you're interested I recently made a soft pretzel dough for a "challenge" concept we had on a facebook page. The pretzel was delicious and very simple to make, my recipe was 3 cups bread flour, 1/4 cup of inactive sourdough culture (just for flavor) 1 teaspoon IDY, 1 teaspoon salt, 7 oz. filtered water. It made a damn good soft pretzel and I'm sure you could tweak it for a pizza dough.

Thank you, Sir...but damn...that will just get me back into my pizza dough experimentation mode. 

lol

I have some Tartine bread baking lined up for this weekend but I will definitely try this one and report back. You don't have the Baker's % by any chance, do you?

[dmcavanagh]

No, I wasn't to fussy with the measurements, no baker's percentages, just wing it and you should be fine, I do all my dough by feel these days, can't stand pulling out a scale to make pizza dough which I could do blindfolded!

[Essen1]

Guess I'll be winging it some time this coming week. I'll keep you posted.

[norma427]

Mike,

I really don’t know what Marcello’s pizza tastes like, but many places where I live make pretzel buns for sandwiches.  I think they taste like pizza dough crusts in a way and also like a soft pretzel.  If you also look up what bretzels are, they are also something like soft pretzels, but are really more like bread.

I don’t think this will really help you, but DNA Dan and I were playing around with pretzel crust pizzas.  I tried one pretzel crust pizza at Reply 41 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10286.msg93738.html#msg93738 and DNA Dan also played around with a pretzel crust pizza at Reply 54 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10286.msg94463.html#msg94463 in the same thread.

This is just a guess, but maybe they might use some kind of malt in their dough.

Best of luck in your search for a pizza crust that tastes like Marcello’s.

Norma

[Essen1]

Mike,

I really don’t know what Marcello’s pizza tastes like, but many places where I live make pretzel buns for sandwiches.  I think they taste like pizza dough crusts in a way and also like a soft pretzel.  If you also look up what bretzels are, they are also something like soft pretzels, but are really more like bread.

I don’t think this will really help you, but DNA Dan and I were playing around with pretzel crust pizzas.  I tried one pretzel crust pizza at Reply 41 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10286.msg93738.html#msg93738 and DNA Dan also played around with a pretzel crust pizza at Reply 54 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10286.msg94463.html#msg94463 in the same thread.

This is just a guess, but maybe they might use some kind of malt in their dough.

Best of luck in your search for a pizza crust that tastes like Marcello’s.

Norma

Norma,

Thanks for the links. I've also heard that baking powder has the same effect on the softness of the crust but I have yet to verify that notion.

I could be wrong, though.

[norma427]

Norma,

I've also heard that baking powder has the same effect on the softness of the crust but I have yet to verify that notion.

I could be wrong, though.

Mike,

I look forward to your results if you try baking powder.

Norma

[Skee]

I've also heard that baking powder has the same effect on the softness of the crust but I have yet to verify that notion.

Funny you should mention this today - I'm working on a non-gluten deep-dish dough in which the original recipe calls for yeast but the dough is made and pressed into the pan and baked immediately, so there's really no yeast flavor or contribution other than the rise and for tonight's experiment I was going to use baking powder instead of yeast.

[Essen1]

Funny you should mention this today - I'm working on a non-gluten deep-dish dough in which the original recipe calls for yeast but the dough is made and pressed into the pan and baked immediately, so there's really no yeast flavor or contribution other than the rise and for tonight's experiment I was going to use baking powder instead of yeast.

Well, I have yet to determine how much baking soda I need. I might try a yeast/bs (no pun intended) combo.

We'll see.

[Skee]

Well, baking powder alone didn't do any better than the yeast in making a lighter gluten-free crust - it was still dense.  Going to have to look at the recipe itself next.  Here's the gluten-free next to the regular Detroit:

[Essen1]

Skee,

The right one looks perfect, the left...not so much.

What amounts of BS did you use? Btw, if you want a less dense crust you might need to increase the hydration to get that extra oven spring, which in turn, though, would mean altering your formula a little bit in regards to the other components.

[Skee]

What amounts of BS did you use? Btw, if you want a less dense crust you might need to increase the hydration to get that extra oven spring, which in turn, though, would mean altering your formula a little bit in regards to the other components.

The original recipe called for 2t of IDY, so I used 1T of baking powder as a starting point. 

I don't think I made it clear though that I'm trying this in a gluten-free crust so I don't know if hydration is going to help, it seems more like there's nothing really there to catch the CO2 and inflate.