Author Topic: Essen1's NY-style pizza project  (Read 123061 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Skee

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 147
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #875 on: March 19, 2013, 02:29:41 PM »
I've also heard that baking powder has the same effect on the softness of the crust but I have yet to verify that notion.
Funny you should mention this today - I'm working on a non-gluten deep-dish dough in which the original recipe calls for yeast but the dough is made and pressed into the pan and baked immediately, so there's really no yeast flavor or contribution other than the rise and for tonight's experiment I was going to use baking powder instead of yeast.


Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3600
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #876 on: March 19, 2013, 11:10:16 PM »
Funny you should mention this today - I'm working on a non-gluten deep-dish dough in which the original recipe calls for yeast but the dough is made and pressed into the pan and baked immediately, so there's really no yeast flavor or contribution other than the rise and for tonight's experiment I was going to use baking powder instead of yeast.

Well, I have yet to determine how much baking soda I need. I might try a yeast/bs (no pun intended) combo.

We'll see.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Skee

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 147
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #877 on: March 20, 2013, 12:26:17 PM »
Well, baking powder alone didn't do any better than the yeast in making a lighter gluten-free crust - it was still dense.  Going to have to look at the recipe itself next.  Here's the gluten-free next to the regular Detroit:


Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3600
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #878 on: March 20, 2013, 11:44:07 PM »
Skee,

The right one looks perfect, the left...not so much.

What amounts of BS did you use? Btw, if you want a less dense crust you might need to increase the hydration to get that extra oven spring, which in turn, though, would mean altering your formula a little bit in regards to the other components.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Skee

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 147
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #879 on: March 21, 2013, 12:59:58 PM »
What amounts of BS did you use? Btw, if you want a less dense crust you might need to increase the hydration to get that extra oven spring, which in turn, though, would mean altering your formula a little bit in regards to the other components.
The original recipe called for 2t of IDY, so I used 1T of baking powder as a starting point. 

I don't think I made it clear though that I'm trying this in a gluten-free crust so I don't know if hydration is going to help, it seems more like there's nothing really there to catch the CO2 and inflate.

Offline willsanquil

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2
  • Location: United States
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #880 on: August 02, 2013, 08:30:09 PM »
After much deliberation and reading of Mikes thread and drooling at his pies over and over, I decided on two Recipes to try for a pizza party I'm throwing.  Each of these is for a 3x ball batch of 14" pie. I used a kitchen scale to get the amounts as close to perfect as possible.

#32

Flour (100%) 798.22g
Water (60%) 478.93
ADY (.3%) 2.39g
Himalayan Pink Salt (2%) 15.96g
EVOO (2%) 15.96g
Organic Sugar (3%) 23.95g
Total(167.3%) 1335.43g
Single Ball 445.14g

#33

Flour (100%) 785.31g
Water (64%) 502.6g
ADY (.3%) 2.36g
Himalayan Pink Salt (1.75%) 13.74g
EVOO (2%) 19.63g
Organic Sugar (1.5%) 11.78g
Total(170.05%) 1335.43g
Single Ball 445.14g

As I do not have a stand mixer I used a food processor and ziplock bags and the following mixing order:

Flour
Salt
Sugar

Pulse to combine, then add

Yeast

Pulse to combine, then turn processor on and add

oil + water

Leave on for ~1 minute, until dough turns into a ball and passes the windowpane test

Dough is then floured and worked into a ball and put into a large ziplock bag for 5 hours in the fridge and then divided into even balls and placed in their own smaller ziplock bags and back into the refrigerator.  I prepared 4 batches of dough:

#1 - all caputo flour, #33
#2 - 50/50 caputo/Gold Bread Flour, #33
#3 - all bread flour, #32
#4 - all caputo, #32

I prepared them on thursday night at ~10pm, then had to leave to do a show and got back at 3 am when I divided them into even balls. It is friday 4pm and I cooked 3 pizzas but I freaking forgot to see which balls I took out (their individual bags were labeled but in my haste I totally spaced it)

Let them sit for not even an hour before working them due to time limits.  They were each the best pizza I have ever made - each one topped the last.  The first two were a bit shy of the 14" I was aiming for due to me not having a good handle on stretching and cornicione technique.  However, the last one was just shy of the full 16" of my pizza screen.

The last one was...one of the best pizzas I have ever eaten.  I nailed the sauce, got my dough stretching technique down a bit more and topped it with the perfect amount of cheese.  It was foldable and thin and everything I want a NY pie to be - the thing I like the most about NY pies are the thin/foldable nature of the crust and the saltysweet tang of the mozz + sauce.

The sauce was super easy and very good - 2 tbsp of butter and 2 tbsp of olive oil in a pot with a bit of fresh basil and oregano, simmered for a minute then drop a 28 oz can of crushed tomatoes (the brand is the same one that mike used in a post,can't remember which one off the top of my head) along with some salt and sugar.  Heat 5 minutes on low then take off heat and tweak salt/sugar before putting on pizza.

As far as baking, I preheated the oven at 500 for an hour with my pizza stone in it..and my new 16" pizza screen came in today, so I built the pies on that and slid them in with my wooden peel.  What was in the past a very frustrating endeavour (sliding the pizza onto the stone) is now super easy and enjoyable.  I got a very nice coloration on the bottom - just how I like it (forgive my blasphemy but I don't like black char on the bottom of my pizza) and I didn't have to use the broiler because the cheese was browned how I like it.  I put my stone in the middle of the oven.

I can't wait to see what these doughs taste like tomorrow at my pizza party once they've had more time to cold ferment.

Super happy that I can make NY style pizzas that live up to my standards without a proper oven and without a stand mixer!

Offline communist

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 486
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #881 on: August 02, 2013, 08:53:59 PM »
Pies are looking very good!  The food processor is just as good as the Kitchen Aid mixer - some say it is even better.     
Mark

Offline AnonymousPizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 40
  • Location: Freedom, USA
  • I Am Pizza!
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #882 on: August 10, 2014, 06:39:59 PM »
Sorry for bumping an old thread.

I did it though. Finally got to making my own pizza dough for the first time, and I used your (Essen1's) KABF recipe in the OP:
Quote
587 gr. Flour (100%)
370 gr. Water (63%)
9 gr. Sea salt (1.5%)
6 gr. Olive oil (1%)
2 gr. IDY (0.3%)
which, in volume and scaled, was roughly:
  • 2-1/3 cups KABF
  • 3/4 cups water
  • 1 tsp Morton Kosher Salt
  • 2/3 tsp extra virgin olive oil
  • 3/4 tsp active dry yeast

So; tenth pizza I've made, ever; first one without pre-made dough; going for New Yorkish as I can get.

I'm really happy with it. My toppings still need a lot of work (those are $3 Safeway pepperonis on there) - but the crust...but...that crust. Best crust I've made yet. Maybe I'm biased because it's the first fresh dough I've used, but still, wow.

Well, that's for flavor at least.

I did burn it, though. The pizza was way too crispy to be recognized as NY style. The crust folded, but like a crackling, wilting leaf, not a fresh, moist slice. Honestly though, that's still saying something; all my other crusts could be mistaken for crackers, unless they were under cooked to the point that you could taste it.

So, I mixed this dough in a bread maker. Put it in the fridge right after, and it didn't see daylight for another 36 hours. At that point I set it out at room temp for about an hour, then slapped it; the 4th-ish time I've ever slapped a pizza. But even after that milestone moment, I basically scrunched the thing into a square to fit a pan. So ignore the weird shapes the pizza will take on in the pics. One important thing here though: the dough was dry and cracked all around the sides. It had formed a skin during its time in the fridge, on the exposed parts that weren't in contact with its bowl. I was actually worried the dough was too moist when I first mixed it, but it definitely dried over time. In the end, these cracks in the dough actually baked to make an interesting texture. But like I said, the crust was too crispy for NY.

I also bought a can of Cento San Marzano tomatoes for this. Poured them into a bowl and crushed them with my left hand because my right finger had a cut, and tomatoes can sting. Pulled out some strings and seeds, and that was my sauce.

I put the cheese on first, then spread the tomatoes; first time I've done that. Then I seasoned it, and then topped it: Safeway pepperonis and chunks of fresh mozzarella.

That's pretty much everything important. I baked this pizza on the metal pan that it was made on, on top of a piece of sandstone, surrounded by bricks, in a barbecue. I didn't really manage to get it that hot; the thermometer read around 400 Farenheit, and who knows whether the pan was a lot cooler or hotter. Maybe I'll post pics of that. You'll see them below if I'm not lazy. So that's important too.

That's it tho. Also, thanks Essen1 (Mike?).
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 07:02:40 PM by AnonymousPizza »
I've come back for you, to remind you of something. Something you once knew.
That this world is not real.

Offline AnonymousPizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 40
  • Location: Freedom, USA
  • I Am Pizza!
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #883 on: August 10, 2014, 06:58:25 PM »
I've come back for you, to remind you of something. Something you once knew.
That this world is not real.


Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12473
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #884 on: August 10, 2014, 07:32:43 PM »
Nice work there A.....you did real good for your first ever!  :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15424
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #885 on: August 10, 2014, 07:33:20 PM »
Do you feed that bunny corn bread?
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline AnonymousPizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 40
  • Location: Freedom, USA
  • I Am Pizza!
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #886 on: August 12, 2014, 08:02:18 AM »
Do you feed that bunny corn bread?


She's not my bunny. I'm sure she's been fed everything though, including cornbread.
I've come back for you, to remind you of something. Something you once knew.
That this world is not real.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15424
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #887 on: August 12, 2014, 09:34:25 AM »
I like to feed rabbits cornbread. It makes the meat taste sweet. She looks tasty...
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Donjo911

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1272
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #888 on: August 12, 2014, 12:11:52 PM »
Anonymous Pizza,
Good job! I noticed you were baking on a cookie sheet.  Your crust looks good but my suggestion is, as you seem intent on doing iNY pizza right in your home oven, is to read Scott123's sticky on A36/Baking Steel.  If steel can fit in your budget your crust will improve significantly when using steel AOTBE.
Cheers,
Don
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 12:17:37 PM by Donjo911 »
I have done wrong.. but what I did, I thought needed to be done.

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12473
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #889 on: August 12, 2014, 12:17:26 PM »
Anonymous Pizza,
Good job! I noticed you were baking on a cookie sheet.  Your crust looks good but my suggestion is, as you seem intent on doing iNY pizza right in your home oven, is to read Scott123's sticky on A36/Baking Steel.  If, steel can fit in your budget, your crust will improve significantly when using steel AOTBE.
Cheers,
Don
He`s on a bbq grill Don....baking steel no, no.  :)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Donjo911

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1272
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #890 on: August 12, 2014, 12:18:50 PM »
He`s on a bbq grill Don....baking steel no, no.  :)
Oops! Nice catch CBob - sorry I did not see that.  You're right
I have done wrong.. but what I did, I thought needed to be done.

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3600
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #891 on: August 12, 2014, 04:52:23 PM »
AP,

Good looking pies!

Personally, the best results I've had was when using a kiln shelf made from composite materials. Still use it today and it never fails for my applications.

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein


Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12473
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #892 on: August 12, 2014, 05:19:45 PM »
AP,
 
Good looking pies!

Personally, the best results I've had was when using a kiln shelf made from composite materials. Still use it today and it never fails for my applications.
I just so happen to have 2 unused Axner 3/4in.thick by 20in round kiln shelfs....still in the bubble wrap and I don`t need them.  ;D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline AnonymousPizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 40
  • Location: Freedom, USA
  • I Am Pizza!
Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #893 on: August 12, 2014, 07:58:06 PM »
Thanks for the replies everyone. It helps a lot.

I just took another dough made from Essen's first stone buhr recipe out of the fridge. I'll post this pizza too.

AP,

Good looking pies!

Personally, the best results I've had was when using a kiln shelf made from composite materials. Still use it today and it never fails for my applications.

That does sound good. Sandstone definitely isn't heat safe. Mine split down the middle already.

I just so happen to have 2 unused Axner 3/4in.thick by 20in round kiln shelfs....still in the bubble wrap and I don`t need them.  ;D

Oh my god...I'd pay for shipping plus 'handling' for those >_>
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 09:27:50 PM by AnonymousPizza »
I've come back for you, to remind you of something. Something you once knew.
That this world is not real.

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3600
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #894 on: October 19, 2014, 12:52:12 PM »
Dough time!

Had my pizza guy order a 25lb bag of Pendelton's Power flour for me. Total cost: $10.38

Good stuff :)
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3600
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #895 on: October 19, 2014, 02:38:15 PM »
63% hydration, 10 minute knead. 20 minute bench rest before balling up.

That dough is smooth as silk.

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Chaze215

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 872
  • Location: Jersey Shore
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #896 on: October 19, 2014, 06:36:14 PM »
Looks good! I've become of 7/11s recently. Looking forward to seeing the results.
Chaz

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3600
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #897 on: October 20, 2014, 02:21:54 PM »
7/11s are great straight out of the can.

No need to mess with them a whole lot by adding spices and what not.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline PizzaEater101

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 660
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA (aka The Wild West)
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #898 on: February 20, 2015, 01:32:29 AM »
7/11s are great straight out of the can.

No need to mess with them a whole lot by adding spices and what not.

Mr. Essen, you have not posted to this thread in awhile, what's your latest pie? Post a pic.

Also, are you saying youcan just use 7/11s without any spices at all and the sauce will be just right or are you saying you need to add a little spice and that's it?

Another thing Mike, what cheese do you use now, I mean brand. Maybe things changed since you last posted to this thread. I think I am sticking to the Bella Rosano at Costco. I am also thinking of trying the Precious brand before the production of this cheese is halted.


« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 01:35:16 AM by PizzaEater101 »

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3600
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #899 on: February 20, 2015, 03:32:20 PM »
Mr. Essen, you have not posted to this thread in awhile, what's your latest pie? Post a pic.

Also, are you saying youcan just use 7/11s without any spices at all and the sauce will be just right or are you saying you need to add a little spice and that's it?

Another thing Mike, what cheese do you use now, I mean brand. Maybe things changed since you last posted to this thread. I think I am sticking to the Bella Rosano at Costco. I am also thinking of trying the Precious brand before the production of this cheese is halted.

Mr. PE101,

I'm still making pies but not as much as I used to. After I've gotten married things work a little different nowadays. I don't have the time I used to have for long projects and experiments. But my enthusiasm for pizza hasn't changed one single bit  ;D

Below is a pie I just made last week for some family members (18" Quattro Stagioni). Outcome was phenomenal, very good.

With the 7/11's, they are great right out of the can but I add a pinch of oregano, a pinch of salt and a little sugar. But that's really it. The cheese I use now is Grande Mozza and Lucerne Whole Milk Mozzarella from Safeway. The Lucerne, imo, is a fantastic cheese for pizza, has great taste and exceptional melting capabilities considering it's retail level. I have not found a better one so far, expect for the North Beach brand that was available at Trader Joe's a few years back.

I contacted Cascade Dairy (Pacific Cheese Co.) in Hayward and they told me that their NB brand is currently only available in foodservice. Bummer.

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein