Author Topic: Essen1's NY-style pizza project  (Read 139543 times)

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #50 on: May 09, 2009, 04:18:05 PM »
Just re-heated a couple of left over slices in my toaster oven here at work...it came out still excellent.

So now I'm really wondering how they achieve such a crust and to get such a nice void in the rim.



Mike

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #51 on: May 09, 2009, 10:15:23 PM »
Mike,

Were you able to taste any sugar in the finished crust or are you assuming that there is sugar in the dough because of the bottom crust coloration? Usually, sugar is omitted or used at very low levels for a NY style dough that is to be baked in a deck oven. If the dough is not fermented long enough to release sugars from the flour naturally, then some sugar might be added to the dough to boost the bottom crust coloration. Rotoflex ovens can come with either metal or stone bake surfaces but I believe their operating temperature is around 500 degrees F (I did not see any higher oven temperatures mentioned at the Rotoflex website). At 500 degrees F, you should get decent caramelization of sugar added to the dough. Do you have any idea as to a typical bake time? A long bake time at around 500 degrees F should allow the dough to dry out enough and become firm with fairly rigid slices (judging from the last two slice photos).

I would guess that the Marcello's dough is a high-hydration dough (because of the large bubbles/voids) with no oil and a low thickness factor. Once you get a dough ball and the corresponding pizza size, and assuming that you get a standard dough ball as they use in their business, you should be able to calculate the thickness factor. That would be a good piece of information to have.

If you can get an idea as to fermentation time, that would help determine a possible yeast quantity and the condition of the dough at the time of baking. Bubbling is common with doughs with short fermentation times and/or shaped while cold. I believe some tempering would be required. Otherwise, it would be difficult to open up a dough ball to full size. Some morning, around 4 AM, you might want to do a stakeout of Marcello's, in your car with an Inspector Clouseau hat and fake mustache, to see when the guy who makes the dough shows up for work. That might give you some clues as to fermentation time, especially if the dough is used for the lunchtime pizzas.

Peter

 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 10:25:19 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2009, 01:52:49 PM »
Peter,

Quote
Were you able to taste any sugar in the finished crust or are you assuming that there is sugar in the dough because of the bottom crust coloration?

What I did was I pulled apart a piece of the rim and just tasted the white inside dough to get a neutral taste of it, meaning without the outer crispness, sauce, cheese or char and I believe it had a very light, sweet taste to it. And if it's true that the Rotoflex ovens operate at an average temp of 500° F, that would certainly explain the char on the bottom.

Quote
Do you have any idea as to a typical bake time? A long bake time at around 500 degrees F should allow the dough to dry out enough and become firm with fairly rigid slices (judging from the last two slice photos).

Unfortunately, I don't have any time frame but I still have another free pie coming and will go and order in person so that I can time it. The last pizza I went and picked it up myself so it was already done when I got there. It was still very warm and fresh when I got back to work to enjoy it, but the slice in the pic could have cooled down a bit when I took it. The others were a bit floppier.

Quote
If you can get an idea as to fermentation time, that would help determine a possible yeast quantity and the condition of the dough at the time of baking.

Once I get the dough, I will ask how they suggest I should handle or manage the dough, incl. fermentation times, etc. I'll report back on that next week.

I'd love to pull a "Clouseau" on them at 4 in the morning, but their dough operations are in a back room not visible from the street unless you walk into the place. But maybe I could yell "Une Bombe, une bombe" during lunch time to clear the place out to have access to the backroom.  :angel:

Mike

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Offline XanderKane

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2009, 05:24:39 AM »
Hey Mike,

Its been a good long while since I posted on this board, but I've found my way back around.  Several months back (a year maybe?) I posted on here about finding a good crust recipe as a beginner.  Peter, of course, stepped up to the challenge as he so often does and got me started on something that worked well for me.  Ultimately though it wasn't what I had in mind when I started out on this journey so I decided to come back to the boards and start experimenting with what some others have posted.  Yours has been my favorite so far, so first thank you for posting it.  I'm having some problem with the calculations and I was hoping that you or peter could give me a hand.

I've been working with the following:

516 gr. KABF (100%)
330 gr. Water (64%)
10 gr. Sea Salt (1.9%)
10 gr. Olive Oil (1.9%)
3 gr. IDY (0.6%)
3 gr. Sugar (0.6%)

if I'm not mistaken this formula is for a 14" pizza and makes 3 dough balls.  I like that it creates 3 pies as it seems to make the 24 hour wait worth it as you've got two more at the ready for the next go around so I'd like to keep that.  From here I'm trying to figure out how to size the recipe up for a 15" pizza.  I've searched the forum and done some reading on converting the percentages, but I'm lost when it comes to how much a dough ball should weigh at a given size or what the thickness factor should be.  Any thoughts or suggestions?

Offline JConk007

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2009, 09:59:42 AM »
XK
Use the dough Calculator found on the front page click the pizza making logo on top then dough tools
All you need is your percentages (you Have) and the thickness factor (probably listed somewhere on this thread and wahla you have it.
I used your % with 1% waste factor and just adjusted the thickness factor in the calculator until I came up with the following.
The Thickness factor came out to .065 and got very close to your #s
so plug in the following to the calculator
TF .065
Balls 3
round
Hydration 64%
IDY .6%
Kosher salt 1.9%
Sugar .6%   
that yielded the following not exact but close

Flour         100%     514.37g
Water        64%       329.2 g
IDY             .6%        3.09 g
Salt          1.9%        9.77 g
Sugar         .6%        3.09 g
Total        167%     859.52g
Single Ball  286.51 g

So now simply just change only size to 15" everthing else remains the same and Bingo you get the following for the 3 - 15" dough balls

Flour            100%  590.48g
Water           64%   377.91g
IDY                .6%      3.54g
Salt             1.9%    11.22g
Sugar             .6%     3.54g
Total            167%  986.69g
Single Ball      328.9g

roughly 42 g more for your extra inch
Hope this helps.I know it has really helped me to learn to use this tool, as so many posts refer to %s and we all have different shape and size pans.
John


« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 10:02:51 AM by JConk007 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2009, 11:49:54 AM »
John,

I believe that Bryan (XanderKane) is referring to the dough formulation that Mike posted at Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg69776.html#msg69776. The formulation you referenced in your last post does not include any oil. Moreover, although Mike's formulation produces 872 grams of dough, he used part of that amount of dough to make two dough balls weighing 375 ounces. I assume the difference, 872 - (2 x 375) = 122 g., was scrap. On the basis of using 375 grams of dough to make a 14" pizza, the thickness factor would be (375/28.35)/(3.14159 x 7 x 7) = 0.08593. If the original amount of dough, 872 grams, was used to make three dough balls for three 14" pizzas, then the thickness factor would have been 0.0666. I believe that Bryan is interested in the numbers that Mike actually used to make the 14" pizzas using 375 grams of dough but scaled to 15". Once Bryan clarifies what he is looking for, it should be fairly straightforward to come up with a dough formulation that Bryan can use. In the meantime, Mike might also review what I have said above to be sure that I got everything right.

Peter

Offline XanderKane

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2009, 12:48:10 PM »
Thanks for the reply, guys. 

Peter has it right, though I think I'd like to increase the thickness factor just slightly as it was a touch thin for my taste.  It almost didn't support the toppings, but then again I was probably stretching it too thin trying to get more mass out of it that was intended. 

John, I did check out the calculator at the front page, but having no idea what the current thickness factor was I wasn't sure what I should be doing.  That's probably a small concern but I'm still a little intimidated by the percentage system.  I understand it in principle, but I haven't experimented with it enough to really have a firm grasp.  I did buy a digital scale which I have been using, but I didn't know what to look for and ended up with one that only goes up in multiples of 2 grams at a time.  Its frustrating and needs to be replaced, but it works for the moment. 

Thanks again for the quick replies.  I hope this clears up any what I'm shooting for.

Offline JConk007

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2009, 02:19:20 PM »
Peter,
OOPs I wondered about the oil but never wentr back to check too busy this week :(
I was really tring to get XK to try the calculator, and give a clear example (- the oil) of how the calculator works Thats why I could not get things to work out to the Grams

Ok so I was looking at the post where he said This is what i have been working with, at reply #53
I will leave future posts that involve the calculator to you and others who can get it right. Proves I am still a rookie.
sorry for any confusion

John
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 02:21:28 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2009, 02:27:40 PM »
Quote
In the meantime, Mike might also review what I have said above to be sure that I got everything right.

Peter,

You are, as usual, correct, Sir.  ;D

In my initial reply #9, I had planned on making a 16" pie but decided against it and made a 14" and that left me with some left-over dough since I reduced the weight of the individual dough balls. I planned on using the scrap dough in a different batch (old dough method), but never got to use it for some reason.


Bryan,

Glad to see that you like the dough formula so far. And just as Peter suggested I'd increase the TF a bit and scale the formula up or down, to get it to your liking. In regards to your scale, I'd see if I can get one that measures in 1 gram increments because it is more accurate and you'll have better control of the measurements for your batches.

I ran my formula through the Lehmann Calculator and used a TF of 0.09 for a 15" pie since you mentioned you'd like the skin to be a tad thicker. All the other variables are the same. It also gives you some room to decide how thin or not you want to stretch it.

Here's what I came up with. It's for three 15" inch pizzas.

Flour (100%):    808.4 g  |  28.51 oz | 1.78 lbs
Water (64%):    517.37 g  |  18.25 oz | 1.14 lbs
IDY (.6%):    4.85 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.61 tsp | 0.54 tbsp
Salt (1.9%):    15.36 g | 0.54 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.2 tsp | 1.07 tbsp
Oil (1.9%):    15.36 g | 0.54 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.41 tsp | 1.14 tbsp
Sugar (.6%):    4.85 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.22 tsp | 0.41 tbsp

Total (169%):   1366.19 g | 48.19 oz | 3.01 lbs | TF = 0.0909

Single Ball:   455.4 g | 16.06 oz | 1 lbs

Let us know if you have more questions and how it turned out!  :chef:

Mike

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Offline JConk007

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2009, 02:43:33 PM »
Based on reply #54 I came up with Thickness Factor of .66 and waste 1% for 3 14" balls I come up with the following,  I just want to  make sure I am doing this right, I thought I had it? PLease just check my # using those figures
Does this make sense? very close to that Reply#54 .
Thanks!

3 @14"
Flour               100%   516.42g
Water               64%   330.51
IDY                   .6%   3.1g
Salt                 1.9%   9.81g
Oil                   1.9%   9.81g 
Sugar                .6%    3.1g
total                          872.74g

Single Ball                   290.91g

For 3 @15" with % mentioned at reply 54 1% waste and .66 thickness (pretty thin)
Flour               100%       592.82g
Water               64%       379.41g
IDY                   .6%          3.56g
Salt                 1.9%        11.56g
Oil                   1.9%        11.56g 
Sugar                .6%          3.56g
total                               1001.87g

Single Ball                  333.96 g

Oh Peter, How do I copy from tool to here?
Thanks
JOhn
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 02:56:12 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2009, 03:12:36 PM »
John,

I usually use the actual weight of a dough ball and the corresponding pizza size to determine the thickness factor, independent of the bowl residue factor. So, in your example, a dough ball weighing 872.74/3 = 290.91333 g./10.261493 oz. and used to make a 14" pizza has a thickness factor of 10.261493/(3.14159 x 7 x 7) = 0.0666599. So, your answer was correct but for the decimal place in your last post. Your answer would change slightly if you decide to factor in the bowl residue value in some fashion, as it appears you did. As you know, there are variations in practice between calculated dough weights using a bowl residue factor and actual dough weights. But these variations tend to be slight, with little effect on the thickness factor.

To copy the tables from the dough calculating tools, hit the Copy button and, in your text, use Ctrl-V where you want to insert the material.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2009, 03:55:13 PM »
I did check out the calculator at the front page, but having no idea what the current thickness factor was I wasn't sure what I should be doing.  That's probably a small concern but I'm still a little intimidated by the percentage system. 

Bryan,

There is a pretty good basic discussion of baker's percents at http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/15ec5c94af1251cdac2d7a25848f0e27/miscdocs/bakerspercentage.pdf. Once you grasp the concepts, you might play around with either the Lehmann dough calculating tool or the expanded dough calculating tool with some values just to get a better feel for how the tools work.

Peter

Offline XanderKane

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2009, 04:27:55 PM »
Mike,

Thanks for giving me a hand there.  I'll get a batch mixed up and report back on how I did with it.  I like this formula as the edges of the crust don't rise dramatically during baking like so many other recipes I've tried.  Its also a lot closer texture and flavor wise to what I've had in mind since the beginning.  I also caved in and ordered some 6 In 1 tomatoes after several miserable attempts and I haven't regretted it.  I'm only disappointed that I can't find it in any stores here in Memphis.  The last real issue I have is the cheese and I may report back and ask some advice there. 

I agree that I need to get a more accurate scale.  I had no idea that it went in 2 gram increments until I tried it out.  Seems ridiculous to me that it does that.

Peter,

I actually downloaded that pdf the first time around and have read through it.  I essentially understand it, but I don't have command of the knowledge if that makes sense.  I do much better learning from experience than from reading.  I just need to get some experimentation under my belt to get more comfortable.

--Bryan

Offline JConk007

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #63 on: May 12, 2009, 09:54:58 PM »
Thanks for those tips Peter!
JC
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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #64 on: May 13, 2009, 02:08:21 AM »
Over the weekend, in my pursuit of the Marcello’s crust, I thought I’d do a little more detailed testing to see if I could somewhat replicate that elusive airy, fluffy crust with the limited info I have as of yet.

And I came up with some interesting crusts.

I made one dough ball per crust, not like the batch of three I normally shoot for. This testing was really just limited to one dough at a time. But since I like the Number 3 apparently, or so it seems, I made three doughs, using three slightly different formulas I labeled Crust 1, Crust 2 and Crust 3. It’s genius, I know. 

Anyway…

All three were 14” in size, two of them, #1 & #2, were same-day crusts respectively and #3 received a wonderfully refreshing 24hr cold-rise treatment.

Refreshingly, in a sense that it was different. Very different from what I’m actually after. Something I have named “Pizza Rustica” since then, and that was last night. The crust, it’s taste and the certain crunch it had to it, reminded me more of a Southern France country bread or a homemade Italian Ciabatta, only thinner and maybe a bit more flavorful.

I digress, though. More on that Crust 3 later.

Crust #1…

…Is a slightly altered formula Peter had suggested to me a few weeks back, I believe, and the only variables I played around with were the sugar and oil amounts. It was topped with roasted bellers, Kalamata olives, garlic, red onion and marinated artichoke hearts and half of the pie with tuna. The cheese was a blend of Grande Low-moisture and TJ’s whole-milk mozzarella.

I used the same kneading/mixing regimen as I have before and you can read about it here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg70689.html#msg70689


The way I added the ingredients together for the mixing process was actually heavily leaned on Evelyne Slomon’s suggestion over at the PMQ Think Tank (Reply 5):

http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=825&highlight=totonnos#825


However, what I did this time was what the owner of Marcello’s suggested and that is to give both doughs (Crust 1 & 2) only 15 mins to relax after they came out of the bowl, instead of the normal hour I give -  ball them up and then in the fridge they go, for about 3 hrs this time. After that, I brought them up to room temp for a couple of hours, covered with a tea towel. Of course, if you’d make a larger batch using either formula, you’d divide the dough after those 15 mins, and then ball them up.

Crust #1:

215 gr. SBBF / 100%
135 gr. Water (75° F) 63%
   5.3 gr. organic sugar 2.5%
    4 gr. garlic EVOO 2%
  3.7 gr. Kosher salt 1.75%
 1.3 gr. IDY .2%

Personal consensus on Crust 1:

Very good, but with room for improvement. It had all the features the Marcello’s pizza has but I wasn’t too happy with the airiness and lightness. It lacked in that department despite the voids you see in the pics. Which brings me to…

…Crust #2.

Light, airy, foldable is probably the best way to describe it. However, my gripe with that crust is, or was, the water-like and somewhat mealy aftertaste. I understand it had a hydration of 64% and a higher salt content (2%) than Crust #1 - and isn’t salt known for water retention? – but it was still a bit too much for me. Perhaps a slightly higher amount of garlic-infused EVOO and IDY could remedy that, combined with a tad more fermentation time. I’ll find out.

In regards to the individual mixing regimens…the same method was used for all three crusts because I was mostly interested in the way the different formulas performed rather then seeing those formulas perform when different mixing/kneading techniques were applied. I tried to keep the Mix/Knead method a constant. The same goes for the other ingredients, from the sugar to the oil. The flour was Stone-Buhr Bread Flour. The reason I used it, instead of KABF, was first it has a slightly higher protein content and second, I believe its browning capabilities are a bit better compared to KABF. And it’s friendlier to one’s wallet, too.

Is it a good alternative to the trusted KABF? Absolutely. And if Stone-Buhr keeps its research going, there’s a good chance they might exceed KABF. But for now, SB is a  great alternative. Let’s leave it at that…


Crust #2:


214 gr. SBBF / 100%
137 gr. Water (75° F) 64%
   5.3 gr. organic sugar 2.5%
   3.7 gr. garlic EVOO 1.75%
   4 gr. Kosher salt 2%
   1 gr. IDY .15%

As you can see, this time I played around with the yeast, the oil and the hydration amounts.

Personal consensus on Crust 2:

Great,..but also with, I think, a truck-load of  room for improvement. It had all the features the Marcello’s pizza has but it lacked in taste. Bummer! The pizza was topped with the same cheese combo as No. 1, but had no additional toppings…a plain cheese pie, so to speak! 

Now, this is not, and I repeat, NOT a spin off of PFT’s “Pizza Raquel” thread, but rather a somewhat enlightening occurrence, which occurred in my head at that time if that is of any importance…an enlightening, and very much cherished occurrence, and that is pizza.

In other words, I didn’t expect this particular outcome.

Nevertheless, she was magnifico! (the crust that is)

I’m recommending it to any NY-style lover and home pizza maker, who’s serious about their pies. It’s not the Holy Grail, but that crust must be improved! A good to great overall crust, with tendencies toward a unique “country-style” crust…rustic, if you will, hence “Pizza Rustica”,


Crust #3 (Pizza Rustica)

Check it out for yourself…

218 gr. SBBF 100%
135 gr. water    62%
1.5 gr. IDY .2%
3 gr. Kosher salt 1.5%
3 gr. EVOO 1.5%
4 gr. organic sugar 2%

I’m still thinking about that crust…I’m sure I could get it to be a bit softer, and with the right flop. I’ll report on that.

In the meantime, perhaps Peter can look over what I have said above to be sure that I got everything right.  ;D

Keep on baking, fellas…


P.S.:  I might have to cut this post in half, meaning the pics should be all at the bottom of this delightful post!


Crust 1 Pics...
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 03:17:13 AM by Essen1 »
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2009, 02:15:09 AM »
...more pics...

Crust #2 (with a weak spot)

Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2009, 02:18:34 AM »
...and last but not least...

Crust #3

Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2009, 02:20:08 AM »
Bryan,

Glad I was off help! I agree, cheese is a tricky thing, or ingredient. But it's fun experimenting!  ;D
Mike

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Offline XanderKane

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #68 on: May 13, 2009, 02:24:04 AM »
All these new pictures are making me hungry, but I don't have a crust at the ready.   :-\

I think I'll have to keep an eye on your progress with the Pizza Rustica and give it a try sometime soon.

Yeah the cheese is frustrating me a bit.  Maybe I'm just not using high quality enough cheese.  it all starts to burn before the crust has a chance to really brown thoroughly on the bottom.  To answer the question I see coming I generally use a pizza screen.  I have a stone, but with the ridiculously hot Memphis summer we're heading into the 1 hour preheat time is unbearable.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #69 on: May 13, 2009, 02:41:55 AM »
Quote
I think I'll have to keep an eye on your progress with the Pizza Rustica and give it a try sometime soon.

Bryan,

I had just logged out when I saw your reply...I was headed to the kitchen, making a new batch  :chef:

"Rustica" gets a slight make-over tonight, in regards to the amount of yeast, which will go down to a gram instead of the 1.5 grams I've used previously. EVOO will go up to 2% or to 4 grams (rounded down), and the hydration will increase by 1% to 63% hydration.


EDIT: I made a mistake when I said the hydration goes up by 1% to 64%. I meant 63%. Sorry, my bad but it's corrected above.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 12:35:16 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

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Offline Matthew

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #70 on: May 13, 2009, 06:16:41 AM »
Mike,
Looks fantastic bro!  Keep it going.

Matt

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #71 on: May 13, 2009, 11:16:11 AM »
Hey Mike, wazzup bro! These look really really good. #2 looks like it had the most pop in the rim, and less gum line than the others, #1 in particular. The mealy flavor sounds odd, you'd know more the cause than I, but that was my top pick on appearance alone. Fantastic, you're really getting to new heights. Climb that mountain!
:chef:
Cheers, J.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 11:17:54 AM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #72 on: May 13, 2009, 11:38:28 AM »
Mike,

It was fun re-reading the exchange that I and others had with Evelyne Slomon on autolyse and related matters at the PMQ posts you referenced even though I highly doubt that Marcello's is using autolyse.

All of your pizzas look enticing. The dough formulations for the pizzas look to be in good shape, but can you tell us what weight of dough you used to make the three pizzas? Also, did you use the broiler element as part of your overall baking process?

To the extent that you are able to get more information on the Marcello's dough, you might be able to incorporate that information into one or more of the existing dough formulation. I would like to get a better feel for the amount of yeast that Marcello's uses.

For your information, I spoke to a salesperson today at Rotoflex in San Antonio, Texas. I wanted to get a better feel for the operating temperature of their ovens (500 degrees F just seemed to be too low a limit) and the use of the steel baking surface in comparison with a stone surface. I was told that the oven can get to about 700 degrees F but because their ovens are so well insulated they are used at 475-525 degrees F by most pizza operators who have the Rotoflex ovens. Apparently higher oven temperatures are needed with traditional deck ovens to satisfactorily bake the pizzas while keeping the ovens hot at peak production times and the recovery period short. The steel baking surface tends to be a preference matter, especially for operators who previously used metal pans. I was told that one would have to be a real pizza expert to be able to tell the difference between a pizza baked on their metal surface and one baked on their stone surface. BTW, the supplier of the stones for their ovens that are retrofitted with stones is AWMCO, the manufacturer of the Fibrament stones. The salesperson I spoke with was well aware of Marcello's but did not know how specifically they are using their Rotoflex oven. If you ever decide to get into the pizza business, a basic Rotoflex oven with a hood costs about $30K, including delivery and installation (about $4500 of the cost is for delivery and installation).

Peter
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 12:37:27 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Essen1

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #73 on: May 13, 2009, 12:56:14 PM »
Matt,

Thanks so much! I'll keep at it and will report back on additional findings once I get my hands on more info.


Jimbo,

Good to see you back, Bro! Hope all is well.

Yes, I don't know what was up with that mealy flavor. It had an after taste like if you'd mix just flour and water together then stick your finger in it and taste it. I have to work on that. Otherwise, the crust was fine. Maybe it didn't mix well for some reason. That would probably also explain that "weak" spot in the crust you see in one of the pics.



Quote
It was fun re-reading the exchange that I and others had with Evelyne Slomon on autolyse and related matters at the PMQ posts you referenced even though I highly doubt that Marcello's is using autolyse.

Peter,

I doubt also that they use autolyse. I mainly referenced that post from Evelyne because of the order she adds the ingredients into the mixing bowl and the kneading regimen she suggested. It's solid advice and I have been using it for a few weeks now with mainly great results.

I apologize for forgetting to include the individual dough weights and thanks for pointing that out. The weight in all three crust was aimed at 360 - 365 grams, give or take a couple of grams.

Quote
For your information, I spoke to a salesperson today at Rotoflex in San Antonio, Texas. I wanted to get a better feel for the operating temperature of their ovens (500 degrees F just seemed to be too low a limit) and the use of the steel baking surface in comparison with a stone surface. I was told that the oven can get to about 700 degrees F but because their ovens are so well insulated they are used at 475-525 degrees F by most pizza operators who have the Rotoflex ovens. Apparently higher oven temperatures are needed with traditional deck ovens to satisfactorily bake the pizzas while keeping the ovens hot at peak production times and the recovery period short. The steel baking surface tends to be a preference matter, especially for operators who previously used metal pans. I was told that one would have to be a real pizza expert to be able to tell the difference between a pizza baked on their metal surface and one baked on their stone surface. BTW, the supplier of the stones for their ovens that are retrofitted with stones is AWMCO, the manufacturer of the Fibrament stones. The salesperson I spoke with was well aware of Marcello's but did not know how specifically they are using their Rotoflex oven. If you ever decide to get into the pizza business, a basic Rotoflex oven with a hood costs about $30K, including delivery and installation (about $4500 of the cost is for delivery and installation).

You are the man, Peter!

Thanks so much for calling the guys at Rotoflex and obtaining that info. It's funny that you mentioned the folks from Fibrament because when I spoke with the owner on my last trip to Marcello's, inquiring about the metal surface, I mentioned the Fibrament stones to her and said that the company who makes them does also custom work for commercial ovens. I can tell, from talking to her (owner), that she ecstatic about her oven. I believe Tony Gemignani in San Leandro, uses a Rotoflex, too.

I have still ways to go before I can even seriously considering open a little shop. I want to have a solid product first, meaning a great crust, great sauce, the right cheese combo and an overall solid business concept that fits and caters to the potential community. And until all that is in place, I'll stick to my kitchen and my trusted test eaters.

Btw, my old man's having a B-Day party coming up at the end of this month with 30 or more people attending. He asked me to make some pies and there will be people that never had any of my pizzas so it will be a good opportunity to see what those people think. I might shoot another little video, we'll see.

« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 01:16:04 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Essen1's NY-style pizza project
« Reply #74 on: May 13, 2009, 01:34:22 PM »
Beautiful pics!  This thread is pulling me away from responsibilities and back into the kitchen!  It's evil...  >:D
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.


 

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