Question about getting the bottom of crust more crispy brown that white

[Pete-zza]

Extra virgin olive oil is very expensive I know that.. is the classico olive oil significantly cheaper? Ill def take your recommendation of using vegtable oil on the dough balls when you cross stack them thanks!

Kevin,

I use the Classico mainly because I can get it in most supermarkets, and it is cheaper than a good extra virgin olive oil. There are other brands that I suspect are just as good. If I were a pizza professional, I would check with my foodservice company to find something equivalent.

Peter

[Tekari]

Pete,

Sorry it took me so long to reply.  I had alot of things going on with my pizzeria (still not open yet though!).  I really liked the recipe without the oil that you provided as opposed to the "emergency dough".  I now have scrapped the idea of going with a fast rise dough and have really learned to love the lehman recipe you have provided.  Ive been using an 18 oz doughball for 16" pizza which gives a thickness that I am looking for.   the crust was cripsy yet chewy on the inside (cooked with a 1 1/2" stone at 550 degrees).

Now im just working on making my sauce better!

thanks for all your help,

Kevin

[Pete-zza]

Kevin,

I'm glad to hear that everything worked out well with the dough. I was wondering which version you decided on.

It will be interesting to see how the recipe works in your commercial oven setting as opposed to your home oven setting. From what I have read, when pizza operators use their store doughs in their home ovens, the results are quite different. I would imagine that the reverse is true also. If so, you may have to do some tweaking.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

Kevin,

I did a search at the PMQ Think Tank and found this thread discussing using a dough made at home but baked in a pizzeria oven: http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=32504#32504.

Peter

[Tekari]

all these different doughs you gave me were mixed in a hobart 80 qt mixer.. cooked in a blodgett 1048 gas fired oven 1 1/2" stone deck at 550 degrees.

I have never made a pizza in my home so what you gave me is going to work out fine!

[Pete-zza]

Kevin,

That's great. I mistakenly thought that you were doing some testing at home using your home oven before using a commercial oven.

Out of curiosity, what convinced you not to go with an emergency type dough?

Peter

[Tekari]

Peter,

For one it is very inconsistent.  Using that much yeast and really warm water.. with varying room temperatures I always felt like it was a crapshoot.  With the lehman dough you gave me its exactly the same everytime.  I think that the fermented dough had a better texture and just overall people seemed to like it alot better.  Another plus is that is actually stays longer.  The quick though although quick is no good after 4-6 hours out so its harder to plan.  With this dough I can make it during slow times.. its ready the next day and i just take it out 2 hours or so before I need it as I need it throughout the day.

Thanks again for your help with this.. I finnally have a dough I am confident in.  Now I just gotta finalize the sauce.

Kevin

[Tekari]

Pete,

I am revisiting he formula without oil that you gave me for winter version. You used 1.2% that was because i was abou 55 degrees in the cold building I was making the pizza.  Now I am working in a warmer room temperature 60-65 degrees.. how much lower of a percentage would you recommend I use?  What about when its 85 degrees or higher this summer in the kitchen? I was thinking of doing .75 for it being in the 60's what do you think?

[Pete-zza]

Kevin,

I assume you are referring to the amount of yeast in the "Classic" NY Style Dough Formulation Without Oil from Reply 17 in this thread, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7499.msg64553.html#msg64553. With a change in the room temperature where the dough is made, you ideally want to keep the same finished dough temperature. For example, for a finished dough temperature of 80 degrees F, and with a room temperature of 60-65 degrees F and the same temperature for the flour, and a friction factor of 25 degrees F for your Hobart mixer, the water temperature you would want to use is 85-95 degrees F. Since different mixers can have different friction factors, that is something you may have to do some experimentation with to see if you get the desired finished dough temperature with your particular mixer. Once the really hot temperatures arrive, for example, 85 degrees F, the water temperature you would want to use to maintain the finished dough temperature of 80 degrees F is about 45 degrees F.

It is also possible, as I often do in a home setting, to adjust the amount of yeast with changes in the season. Often operators don't like to change the yeast and other ingredients because it is easier and perhaps safer to have their workers who make the dough just change the water temperature. There are also charts that can be used by such workers to tell them the correct water temperature to use to make the dough based on the room temperature and flour temperature. You can see an abbreviated version of such a chart at page 6 of the General Mills brochure at http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/PDFs/Website%20A49104%20Just%20Crust%20Brochure.pdf. If you find it necessary to reduce the amount of yeast, I think I would reduce the 1.2% just slightly while adjusting the water temperature based on the room temperature at the time you are making the dough.

It is possible to do the water temperature calculations using a simple calculator but you would first have to determine the friction factor for your particular mixer. If you need help on how to do this, let me know.

Peter

EDIT (2/4/2013): For an updated link to the General Mills brochure, see http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/water-temperature-chart