Author Topic: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)  (Read 19739 times)

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Offline JConk007

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Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« on: March 02, 2009, 09:37:36 PM »
OK so from the American pie book I wanted to see what Mr Reinharts take on NY style was. (Hey I am from Jersey ya know) The recipe is on pg 114 of this great book. My search for the perfect Pizza. THANK YOU PETER R!

5 1/2 Cups (22 1/2 Oz.) Bread flour I used KABF
1 1/2 Tbs. sugar or Honey, I used Honey
2 tsp. salt or 3 1/2 tsp Kosher salt
1 1/2 Tsp Instant yeast, I kicked it up to 1 tbs by mistake ADY
3 Tbs. Olive oil
1 3/4 cups room temp water I used 95 degree

% would be great and thats my only complaint with this book as I would now like to make more than 3 balls after how it turned out GREAT!

I made this Friday Night, along with the deep dish. I planned to make deep dish on Sat. and use this dough Tuesday. (Yeah right)  Because of my mistake in the yeast measurement I did take it out after like 30 hours gently punch it down as it had doubled. Well I cant stand looking at a lonely dough in the fridge so Tonight Monday after 3 full days of cooling, relaxing, and growing I broke it down into 3 equal 345G balls and put 2 of them in my warming drawer ( my new proofing box) at 85 degrees for about 1 1/4 hrs. Pushing the other to 5 days at least.
This was on of the best NY style I have ever made I think because of the 3 full days?
I cooked both pies directly on the stone in Convection mode for 8 minutes. with 1 half turn at 5 minutes. Oven temp was 460 and stone read 500 degrees with the IR like the pizzerias around me cook at.
The dough was very workable , extensible , nice windowpane. and I though I was on the pizza team the way I was throwing it around! Very cool. 14" no problem could have gone to maybe 18" if I had a super peel. and bigger stone.
Texture was Light and it tasted great. Nice coloration, and folded like true street slice.

For the 1st I used 100% scarmorza cheese 1 1/2 cups thick hand shred. I did 1/2 pepperoni on both As I wanted to see what the difference was in the 2 types of cheese I had. heres #1
« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 10:00:10 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline JConk007

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2009, 09:43:16 PM »
I forgot to mention with the 2 dough balls another experiment I tried was as mentioned by other's here. I left 1 ball uncovered and it had a slight hardness on the surface which I kept on the bottom you can see the specs in the crust shot .
It worked!
« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 09:52:13 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline JConk007

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2009, 09:46:27 PM »
Heres #2 Same sauce All thick hand shredded 1/2 Whole milk mozz. 1/2 part skim and a touch of mild cheddar
Smaller rim as noted also but same great light and flexible crust :P
ps If  anyone is wondering The Mozz won out over the scarmorza!
« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 09:50:23 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline Pizzacrazy7

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2009, 10:04:45 PM »
JConk,
       Awesome looking pies.......as usual  ;D
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2009, 10:36:17 PM »
John,

Some time ago, I tried the Reinhart NY style dough but with some modifications, like making a 16" version and using a combination of pizza screen and baking stone. To make the 16" size, I converted the Reinhart recipe to baker's percent format and used a thickness factor of 0.10, which I settled upon when the instructions did not specify a pizza size. I later discovered that a 12-ounce dough ball made using the Reinhart recipe was for a 12" pizza. On that basis, the thickness factor should have been 12/(3.14159 x 6 x 6) = 0.1061. I described and showed my results at Reply 112 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,524.msg17203.html#msg17203.

Peter

Offline WestCountry

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2009, 10:56:26 PM »
John,

Some nice big holes in the crumb texture - I like that. Good job!

Chris

Offline ERASMO

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2009, 02:33:29 PM »
Could someone convert this recipe to bakers percentages.
It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2009, 03:19:10 PM »
ERASMO,

I re-did the numbers for the Reinhart NY style dough recipe for greater accuracy (I have better tools now) and used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with two baker's percents versions of the Reinhart recipe, one using sugar and the other using honey. I also established that the thickness factor for the Reinhart dough is around 0.117-0.119. That is actually higher than is normally used for a NY style. I might also add that most NY style doughs do not use nearly as much oil and sugar (and usually no honey) as the Reinhart recipe, and I am sure that many will argue that it is really not a NY style but something closer to an American style. But, that aside, here are the two dough formulations:

Reinhart NY Style Dough Formulation for Three 12" Pizzas--Sugar Version
Flour (100%):
Water (64.9067%):
IDY (0.70833%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (6.3372%):
Sugar (2.8125%):
Total (176.51473%):
637.87 g  |  22.5 oz | 1.41 lbs
414.02 g  |  14.6 oz | 0.91 lbs
4.52 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
11.16 g | 0.39 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2 tsp | 0.67 tbsp
40.42 g | 1.43 oz | 0.09 lbs | 8.98 tsp | 2.99 tbsp
17.94 g | 0.63 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.5 tsp | 1.5 tbsp
1125.94 g | 39.72 oz | 2.48 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Each dough ball = 13.24 ounces (thickness factor = 0.117); no bowl residue compensation

Reinhart NY Style Dough Formulation for Three 12" Pizzas--Honey Version
Flour (100%):
Water (64.9067%):
IDY (0.70833%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (6.3372%):
Honey (4.93333%):
Total (178.63556%):
637.81 g  |  22.5 oz | 1.41 lbs
413.98 g  |  14.6 oz | 0.91 lbs
4.52 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
11.16 g | 0.39 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2 tsp | 0.67 tbsp
40.42 g | 1.43 oz | 0.09 lbs | 8.98 tsp | 2.99 tbsp
31.47 g | 1.11 oz | 0.07 lbs | 4.5 tsp | 1.5 tbsp
1139.36 g | 40.19 oz | 2.51 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Each dough ball = 13.40 ounces (thickness factor = 0.119); no bowl residue compensation

As will be noted from the above tables, the actual dough weights for the ingredients specified for the Reinhart recipe are a bit more than the 12 ounces mentioned in the recipe, the effect of which is to result in greater thickness factors. However, in actual practice, the dough ball weights are likely to be a bit less than stated in the tables because of minor dough losses during the preparation of the doughs. For purposes of using the expanded dough calculating tool to scale the above dough formulations for more or fewer dough balls, I suggest using the individual dough ball weights given in the above tables be entered into the expanded dough calculating tool along with the number of dough balls desired (and also the above baker's percents, of course).

For purposes of scaling the Reinhart dough formulations for other sizes of pizzas, I suggest using a thickness factor of 0.118 in the expanded dough calculating tool for convenience, for both the sugar and honey versions of the Reinhart dough recipe. For example, for a 14" version using sugar, the dough formulation is as follows:

Reinhart NY Style Dough Formulation for One 14" Pizza--Sugar Version
Flour (100%):
Water (64.9067%):
IDY (0.70833%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (6.3372%):
Sugar (2.8125%):
Total (176.51473%):
291.74 g  |  10.29 oz | 0.64 lbs
189.36 g  |  6.68 oz | 0.42 lbs
2.07 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.69 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
5.11 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.91 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
18.49 g | 0.65 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.11 tsp | 1.37 tbsp
8.21 g | 0.29 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.06 tsp | 0.69 tbsp
514.97 g | 18.16 oz | 1.14 lbs | TF = 0.118
Note: No bowl residue compensation

Peter





« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 07:26:22 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline JConk007

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2009, 03:58:45 PM »
Peter,
Thank you for the follow up.  Not sure on the weight and size discussion in you earlier thread you linked to. I can say I agree with the very extensible and easy to stretch out part. Very soft,  with little resistance to the hand. Many of the other new York style I have done ie KASL or KA Perfect pizza blend seems a bit more rigid? Firm to the touch?  I had a final weight of 1050 G and broke it down to 3 balls at 345g  Ea.  which as I said probably could have stretched to 16 " (or more) very easily, but my stone is only 15" I think. Dough was Quite thin in the middle mine may have been as thin as .07 similar to the cracker crust thickness I have done without the rim.
Also I did not notice any sweetness you mentioned could that be because of the 72 + hours fermentation or maybe the 1 tbs. of ADY I mistakingly dumped in?
One thing i really like was the one with the slight crust from room rise that formed and used on the bottom great "crispy crunch" but light I did not find this as chewy as other NY styles either.
anyway having fun trying and really developing the flavor, hand and mouth feel of the finished cooked dough
thanks for the input! How did you like the Round 2  BTB deep Dish ?
John
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 04:14:17 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline ERASMO

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2009, 05:52:41 PM »
Thanks

Much appreciated!!!!!


Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2009, 06:06:01 PM »
This is interesting. I just made, and am currently resting, a Reinhart recipe that uses no sugar and no honey.
4 1/2 cups (20.25 ounces) unbleached high-gluten, bread, or all-purpose flour, chilled
1 3/4 (.44 ounce) teaspoons salt
1 teaspoon (.11 ounce) instant yeast
1/4 cup (2 ounces) olive oil (optional)
1 3/4 cups (14 ounces) water, ice cold (40F)
Semolina flour or cornmeal for dusting
http://www.101cookbooks.com/archives/001199.html

This also really called for no actual kneading, just heavy mixing in bowl until smooth. I did the use my hand as a hook method. A very wet dough, very excited to see the results, so there's a few version of the Reinhart way out there... I suppose?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 06:10:35 PM by NY pizzastriver »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2009, 06:08:11 PM »
Also I did not notice any sweetness you mentioned could that be because of the 72 + hours fermentation or maybe the 1 tbs. of ADY I mistakingly dumped in?

John,

Yes, I believe that, with all that yeast (about 1.8%), by the time you got to 72 hours of fermentation the residual sugars were likely to have been quite low, with effects on the oven spring and crust coloration. Without the convection feature, it is possible that the crust coloration would have been quite a bit lighter.

You have been doing a terrific job with all of your pizzas. You are a born natural.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2009, 06:22:34 PM »
This is interesting. I just made, and am currently resting, a Reinhart recipe that uses no sugar and no honey.


NY pizzastriver,

The recipe you reproduced is a variation of Peter Reinhart's Napoletana Pizza Dough that appears at page 107 of his book American Pie. The dough has a calculated hydration of around 69% so it will be quite wet. According to Reinhart, at page 109 of his book, the oil is intended to be used if a high-gluten or bread flour is to be used in lieu of all-purpose flour, at a rate of one teaspoon per cup of flour. That amount of oil will make the dough feel even softer and wetter.

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2009, 06:26:53 PM »
Yeah, it looks darn tasty though! Anything should be a step up for me, lol. You'll also be happy to know I am now using "King Arthur's Bread Flour", sea salt, have a scale, etc! Yeah it was fun working with the wet dough, I have high hopes for this... have you ever tried it?
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2009, 06:40:37 PM »
NY pizzastriver,

I don't want to divert this thread in a new direction and hijack John's work on the Reinhart NY style, but, yes, I did try the Reinhart Napoletana dough but I found that I much preferred the dough using the 00 flour.

Peter

Offline ERASMO

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2009, 10:10:45 AM »
That seems like alot of oil now that I really took a hard look at the recipe!!!????

How does the dough act with that much oil?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2009, 10:53:36 AM »
That seems like alot of oil now that I really took a hard look at the recipe!!!????

How does the dough act with that much oil?


ERASMO,

Oil helps keep moisture in the dough so that it doesn't evaporate as much as it would if no oil were used. Also, because the sugar or honey added to the dough is hygroscopic (attracts moisture), there will be an increased tenderness in the crumb. Honey, in particular, is much more hygroscopic than sugar. The oil and sugar combined will produce a soft and tender crumb without a great sense of crispiness. To the extent a high-gluten or other high protein flour is used, that will provide some chewiness to the finished crust. For a somewhat more expansive discussion of the use of oil in or on doughs, and sugar as well, see Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5273.msg44761.html#msg44761.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 11:34:32 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline JConk007

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2009, 02:51:29 PM »
I Have tried that Napoletana recipe in my WFO with good results. Need the 67-68% in 800 degree oven.
After playing/ experimenting indoors this winter and gaining some insight into the art and science of pizza-
I am now searching for  good High temp dough recipes, Maybe PFT Raquel? Other threads ??
Not being lazy here but dont get to much out of the search. (need the drop down help menu steve)

Soon we will again be cookin with fire ! ;D
John
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Offline Imaginate

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2009, 11:17:21 PM »
This is the only dough recipe I use.  I've been meaning to try a couple others, but this is so good and works for me very well.  I also just got a new oven and I'm trying to figure out how it works best, but yeah, I really do like the Reinhart NY recipe.

Offline JConk007

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Re: Peter Reinhart New-Style Pizza Dough (pg 114)
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2009, 11:16:05 AM »
I will d this again for sure Imaginate. But I also love trying other dough formulations.
Come to think of it Peter. This one is close to Papa Ginos! I used a bit of yellow cheddar and I do a little better with the rim (neater, smaller) and drop the cooking temp to 450 could be close?
John
« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 11:17:44 AM by JConk007 »
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