Author Topic: A Jeff V pizza recipe, what do you think went wrong?  (Read 16167 times)

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Offline Essen1

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Re: A Jeff V pizza recipe, what do you think went wrong?
« Reply #125 on: March 23, 2009, 08:49:19 PM »
Peter,

I know what you're thinking.

Did he bake 4 pies or only three? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. 

Well, actually I did only make three. Anyway, I did a cold-rise for 12 hrs overnight first and then right after taking it out of the fridge, divided it into 4 350gr dough balls and placed the in the wooden dough box. The amount of yeast was fairly low, .2% and the salt amount was 2.5%.

And given what you've said in you reply, I think I might just have passed that window even though I used the SB flour, which is actually pretty high in protein.

I guess Harry was right...a man's got to know his limitations. At least occasionally. Like your avatar says...always learning.  :chef:

« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 09:02:52 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A Jeff V pizza recipe, what do you think went wrong?
« Reply #126 on: March 23, 2009, 09:03:05 PM »
Mike,

I misunderstood your post in that I thought you only used a room-temperature ferment, not an 8-hour temper period after a period of cold fermentation. It is still possible, however, that the combination put the dough out of the window of usability. The longest temper period that I have ever read about was by a member (Les) who experimented with 9 hours of tempering, as he discussed at Reply 38 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1931.msg17143/topicseen.html#msg17143.

Peter

Offline Essen1

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Re: A Jeff V pizza recipe, what do you think went wrong?
« Reply #127 on: March 23, 2009, 09:23:28 PM »
Peter,

I mentioned the 12 hr cold-rise in reply #108...

Quote
However, I did a 12 hr bulk cold-rise and an 8 hr individual counter-rise of four pies over the weekend. The individual dough balls were stored in a wooden dough box and the texture and handling capabilities of the dough were great, but it lacked significant oven spring.

When mixing the dough, I followed Evelyne Slomon's advice she gave to a member over at the PMQ forum. I incorporated her autolyse method also.

http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=825&highlight=totonnos#825

I didn't experience a very gassy dough, like Les did with his 9 hr dough, in all four dough balls. They rose nicely but not excessively and had spring back when you pushed down on them with a couple of fingers. But they did lack oven spring. I wish I was able to take some pics but my batteries died and the cam kept shutting off automatically.

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: A Jeff V pizza recipe, what do you think went wrong?
« Reply #128 on: March 24, 2009, 06:36:48 PM »
Mike, yeah I actually rested my current brewing dough for a small rest in the middle of kneading. I don't know if it would make much difference, it was mostly for a rest for me. I really wanted to make sure these were kneaded enough, and I know a mixer is the standard way and all, but it would just takes the fun out of it for me.

That wood box sounds pretty cool.  8)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 11:26:45 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: A Jeff V pizza recipe, what do you think went wrong?
« Reply #129 on: March 28, 2009, 10:01:56 AM »
After 3 1/2 days cold these two pies sat out for a counter rise for ...longer than I would have liked. Like a girlfriend is ever on time? HA! Instead of 3 hrs out it was about 4 1/2. The dough became very soft, not so bubbly this time though, and as you can see by shape on 1st pie it stretched way too much in one direction. I did my best to make it round, but it oval-ed again when going to stone. The stone also heated for about 90 mins at 550. She loved them! Frankly, my best so far as far as thinness. Still not as much puff as 1st pie in rim, as you can see in crumb shot of sausage and onion pie. She said "Its like the crust isn't even there, so light and airy". She also thought it was better than slices we had in NY once, but I know better, lol. I purposely took the cheese pizza out earlier, crust was softer as a result, very tasty. Look at the light coming through the bottom! The homemade sauce and sausage slow cooked for 5 hrs, then sat in the fridge for a day to "bond". Here they are, thanks for reading!
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A Jeff V pizza recipe, what do you think went wrong?
« Reply #130 on: March 28, 2009, 10:11:09 AM »
J,

All things considered, I think the pizzas turned out quite well. Once you get beyond about three days with the Lehmann dough, the risks increase because of the extended fermentation, so you were fortunate (lucky?) the dough persevered just long enough for you to pull it off. I think you are getting the hang of it.

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: A Jeff V pizza recipe, what do you think went wrong?
« Reply #131 on: March 28, 2009, 10:18:44 AM »
Thanks Peter! I did heed your advice and added the 2% sugar this time since we knew it would be longer. The flavor was really fantastic. I'm proud of these, and no leftovers!

I have a follow up Q for you, and all. I'm now using block mozzarella, Sargento this time, and with every pizza I've made I have a puffing white rim and cheese that is already liquidating and bubbling. Point is I then have to wait for the rim to brown and the cheese perhaps is over cooked. Tastes good, but as you can see its orange and really melted. Is this typical in your pizzas? I'm on the floor rack position. Both pies cooked in about 4-5 mins.

Compare it to the amazing Glutenboys pies, see how his is still white.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7761.0;attach=12640;image
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 10:22:04 AM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A Jeff V pizza recipe, what do you think went wrong?
« Reply #132 on: March 28, 2009, 10:49:24 AM »
J,

I am not the best one to ask questions about cheeses because where I live in Texas there are not many good cheese choices. The best cheese I found for my purposes was a house brand, Best Choice, that I can no longer get because the store that sold it changed hands and the new owners decided not to continue the product. I bought and froze several pounds before the actual changeover but have now run out and will have to search out a new brand to try. I am not familiar with the block Sargento cheese but in general the Sargento brand does not seem to be one of the more popular ones among our members. Unless you can find a better choice, you might try putting the cheese (e.g., shredded or diced) cold onto your pizzas in order to slow down its breakdown and oiling off. You might also try using the cheese in chunk form, to achieve similar results. When I made cracker-style pizzas, I put the cheese down first and then the sauce, which also worked out well to protect the cheese from breaking down. I realize that that is not a NY style treatment. I believe it is more NJ style, which you may not want to dignify as a former New Yorker by adopting that style.

From what I have read, Glutenboy's oven is an unusual one, so I wouldn't try to compare what you get in your oven with what he gets in his oven. Now that you seem to have a higher comfort level with your pizza making, you might try his dough formulation and see how it works in your oven.

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: A Jeff V pizza recipe, what do you think went wrong?
« Reply #133 on: March 28, 2009, 11:36:01 AM »
Good tips, and sorry to hear about the cheese there. The chunk idea, and cold first are good ideas. Yes, I just asked him about his thoughts on hand kneading it. Curious to see his thoughts. I also see he uses a mix including Boar's Head moz! I do have access to that, they do make the best cold cuts, so stands to reason.
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1


Offline PizzaHog

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Re: A Jeff V pizza recipe, what do you think went wrong?
« Reply #134 on: March 29, 2009, 02:42:53 PM »
Quote
I have a follow up Q for you, and all. I'm now using block mozzarella, Sargento this time, and with every pizza I've made I have a puffing white rim and cheese that is already liquidating and bubbling. Point is I then have to wait for the rim to brown and the cheese perhaps is over cooked. Tastes good, but as you can see its orange and really melted. Is this typical in your pizzas? I'm on the floor rack position. Both pies cooked in about 4-5 mins.

Hey Striver
Having tried well over a dozen diff cheeses and half of those mozz, I have noticed that every dang one reacts to the same heat differently.  Here was one cheese experiment.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8015.0;attach=13454;image
So half the battle may be just finding the right one for you.  Plus the methods already mentioned may help like thick sliced or chunked or even frozen.
Your pizza chops are gettin hot!  Well done!
Hog   

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: A Jeff V pizza recipe, what do you think went wrong?
« Reply #135 on: March 29, 2009, 03:14:50 PM »
Hog, thanks! Yes that picture says it all, cool experiment! I also wanted to correct myself when I said Sargento, it's actually Sorrento whole milk moz, my bad. I put the link below, but I only pay about $6 a block at the store. I just got another block, and I'm going to try the 'freeze it for an hour or so before use' idea. I have quite the task ahead as a buddy is coming tomorrow, and everyone wants a different pizza!  :o
Girlfriend wants anchovies, I assume you put them on cold from the can? (Anyone into anchovies please chime in!) I'm making one of my favorite pizzas ever, shrimp and fresh garlic! And since our friend "isn't a fan" of either he's getting pepperoni and green pepper. So I just tripled the one ball recipe, no sugar since it's a 1 1/2 day fridge, and a little less oil this time. What a mixing and hand knead that was! (huff huff)

https://www.maxdelivery.com/nkz/exec/Product/Display%3Bjsessionid=DB2185A9AAE78C2511F4238458940BDC?productId=260049607
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: A Jeff V pizza recipe, what do you think went wrong?
« Reply #136 on: March 31, 2009, 10:38:07 AM »
Pesci Pesci!
So no pepperoni last night, buddy rescheduled. This is raw and cooked shots of shrimp, anchovy, roasted garlic and fresh basil. Then just shrimp, garlic and less basil. The second pie I misjudged the flop to stone, so I had to push edge back on. It was round once! Char shot is dark, but you can see great light passing through. Very nice puff, good stuff. I over sauced based on thinness and think the shrimp should be prepared differently next time so as not to secrete so much juice.  Also mozzarella was sliced frozen, may have added even more moisture, but it didn't break down nearly as much so hats off to Peter and Hog! 'Twas half a knife and fork affair, but really good though.  ;D

J.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 10:41:55 AM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1