Papa Gino's Recipe

[norma427]

Norma,

I did not see the article and video on the new Papa Gino's ad campaign but I can see how the video shows the drooping characteristic of the PG slices, in this case, even for a basic cheese pizza.

Your post prompted me to take a look at some of the PG YouTube videos. One of these videos, at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkIZaSw_oe8&feature=player_detailpage, shows what appears to be rims formed using a pizza mold such as the one you recently purchased. However, as you know, with professional food photography, it is hard to say whether the photos are typical of what is produced in the real world at Papa Gino's. In most of the examples I have seen in the past, the pizzas shown in commercials do not look like those actually made in the stores.

Another YouTube video, at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkJo-WRiHl4, appears to show what looks to be oil on the pizza that is typically released by cheddar cheese. Again, it may be a pizza that was produced mostly for its visual photographic appeal. It usually takes a reasonable amount of cheddar cheese to produce that effect.

In Reply 397, I believe that you meant to say Papa Gino's instead of Papa Dino's.

Peter

Peter,

I find the first video you posted interesting.  I see the rims seems to be formed by a pizza mold, but they sure seem exaggerated.  I know that when using professional food photography it doesn’t always show how pizzas might look at Papa Gino’s.  It was also interesting to see how their cheese blend is grated.  I am still trying to think of a way to grate the cheese blend like they do.  It looks something like pellets.  That is how the 3 cheese blend (mozzarella, cheddar and provolone) that Bob1 gave me from Grande looks.  I also could see the oregano in the cheese blend in that video.

I see how that second video you posted the link to shows what looks like a fair amount of oiling on the pizza.  I know that it does take a reasonable amount of cheddar to produce that effect.  Since you and Jamie posted you really couldn’t taste the cheddar in real Papa Gino’s pizzas, I sure don’t think Papa Gino’s would use a lot of cheddar in the blend and it also wouldn’t fit into the Nutrition Facts.  I have seen whole milk mozzarella give off pretty much oil though, after a bake.  Even in the second video the rim looks well defined too.

In Reply 397 I did mean to say Papa Gino’s.  I modified that post.  I guess just because there are too many Papa something pizzas, I get confused sometimes when typing and my mind staying on track of what I really want to post.  Thanks for keeping me on track.  

Norma

[Pete-zza]

It was also interesting to see how their cheese blend is grated.  I am still trying to think of a way to grate the cheese blend like they do.  It looks something like pellets.  That is how the 3 cheese blend (mozzarella, cheddar and provolone) that Bob1 gave me from Grande looks.  I also could see the oregano in the cheese blend in that video.

Norma,

I, too, noticed the shorter cheese shreds from one of my early visits to a PG store when I was allowed behind the counter. As I noted at Reply 97 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg75760/topicseen.html#msg75760, the shreds looked to be about 1/2" long. I think the oregano in the cheese blend in the video was added for photographic purposes only, since I did not see the oregano in the cheese blend from where I stood near the worker in the PG store. Maybe I would have seen it if I were permitted to examine the cheese blend more closely.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

I find the first video you posted interesting.  I see the rims seems to be formed by a pizza mold, but they sure seem exaggerated.  I know that when using professional food photography it doesn’t always show how pizzas might look at Papa Gino’s. 

Norma,

I agree that the rims do look exaggerated in the video. My guess is that the exaggeration was intentional, to produce more visually appealing pizzas. This latter effect was something that member RoadPizza discussed in this very informative thread that he started at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9410.msg81526.html#msg81526. See, in particular, Reply 12 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9410.msg82076.html#msg82076. You will notice in that thread that a rim is formed using the pizza mold and remains fairly intact even if it diminishes in height by the time the pizza is dressed. All of the pizzas that RoadPizza showed in that thread were made using the pizza mold. You will also note that RoadPizza mentioned that he used screens under the pizzas at the start of the bake and then removed them as soon as he could, apparently when the pizzas set up enough to allow the screens to be removed. This is essentially the same method that I recently suggested that you use. Whether your next PG clone pizza baked using that method will produce pizzas looking like those that RoadPizza made remains to be seen.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

I, too, noticed the shorter cheese shreds from one of my early visits to a PG store when I was allowed behind the counter. As I noted at Reply 97 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg75760/topicseen.html#msg75760, the shreds looked to be about 1/2" long. I think the oregano in the cheese blend in the video was added for photographic purposes only, since I did not see the oregano in the cheese blend from where I stood near the worker in the PG store. Maybe I would have seen it if I were permitted to examine the cheese blend more closely.

Peter

Peter,

In Reply #97 you posted that you noticed a lot of cornmeal on the work surface.  That wouldn’t have any bearings on how much cornmeal I should use I guess.  You also noted that the skins were quite thin.  That makes me wonder about some of my other attempts until the last attempt when I stretched the skin bigger (15-15 ½”).  Since you think the oregano was for photographic purposes only, I will have to add less oregano for this coming Tuesday's attempt.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma,

I agree that the rims do look exaggerated in the video. My guess is that the exaggeration was intentional, to produce more visually appealing pizzas. This latter effect was something that member RoadPizza discussed in this very informative thread that he started at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9410.msg81526.html#msg81526. See, in particular, Reply 12 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9410.msg82076.html#msg82076. You will notice in that thread that a rim is formed using the pizza mold and remains fairly intact even if it diminishes in height by the time the pizza is dressed. All of the pizzas that RoadPizza showed in that thread were made using the pizza mold. You will also note that RoadPizza mentioned that he used screens under the pizzas at the start of the bake and then removed them as soon as he could, apparently when the pizzas set up enough to allow the screens to be removed. This is essentially the same method that I recently suggested that you use. Whether your next PG clone pizza baked using that method will produce pizzas looking like those that RoadPizza made remains to be seen.

Peter

Peter,

Thank you for also referencing RoadPizza’s thread also.  I see the pizza rims made by RoadPizza’s employees stays more exaggerated than my last attempt did.  I did note that RoadPizza mentioned they use a screen too until the pie was set.  I know I read that thread before, but didn’t pay much attention since I never had a pizza mold before.  Maybe I need to work more with the pizza mold to see what I can achieve with the rim staying more intact.

Norma

[norma427]

I mixed the next attempt at a Papa Gino’s dough this morning.  I didn’t finished putting the PG clone dough ball into the fridge until 12:00 pm.  If anyone is interested, I mixed the PG clone dough ball in my Kitchen Aid with the flat beater first and after the water was incorporated with the flour and oil, sprinkled the IDY over the dough and mixed a little more.  The soybean oil was mixed in with the water first.  I then switched over to the dough hook and mixed for 6 minutes.  The final dough temperature was 78.6 degrees F, so it is more in line with what is supposed to be.  I used regular room temperature water this time.  I left the dough ball sit out for 10 minutes before placing it in the fridge.  I also placed poppy seeds on the dough ball again.

Should I take the dough ball to market and put it in my deli case, or let it in my home fridge?

Norma

[Pete-zza]

In Reply #97 you posted that you noticed a lot of cornmeal on the work surface.  That wouldn’t have any bearings on how much cornmeal I should use I guess.

Norma,

Since the Papa Gino's dough balls do not come with cornmeal, the cornmeal can only get into the dough from the work surface, the pizza mold, or most likely a combination of both. Because of the use of the cornmeal, Papa Gino's apparently found it necessary to list it in the ingredients lists for pizzas that it sold to schools, as previously reported. It was from those ingredients lists and where the cornmeal was in the pecking order for those lists that I estimated the amount used. Since the ingredients for the pizza shell given at the PG Nutrition Facts website did not include cornmeal, I did not factor the cornmeal in my analysis of the PG Nutrition Facts.

Peter

[norma427]

The PG clone dough ball went to market in the Styrofoam container with gel ice packs.  It is now in the deli case. 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Should I take the dough ball to market and put it in my deli case, or let it in my home fridge?

Norma,

Somehow I missed your question quoted above. Sorry about that.

I would have suggested that you use your deli case at market. That way, should you ever decide to test the PG clone dough at market, we will have data points that apply specifically to that application.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Somehow I missed your question quoted above. Sorry about that.

I would have suggested that you use your deli case at market. That way, should you ever decide to test the PG clone dough at market, we will have data points that apply specifically to that application.

Peter

Peter,

You don’t have to apologize for not seeing what I posted.  I thought you wanted me to take the PG clone dough to market, but somehow was wishing you would have told me to keep it in my home fridge.  I like to watch how dough ferments. 

I can understand that market is a better place to keep the PG clone dough though.  Steve said the crust tasted very good Tuesday even though the dough ball didn’t ferment like I wanted it to.  I can also understand if I ever decide to use the PG clone pizza at market, at least we would have data points.  If I would have had time this morning, I was going to make a regular Lehmann dough with about the same amount of IDY as the PG clone dough ball and compare how it would ferment with the PG clone dough ball, but didn’t have time to mix a Lehmann dough.  There are always other weeks.   

Norma

[norma427]

The second article in this pdf.document shows what the fleet media looks like for Papa Gino’s refrigerated trucks that deliver the dough form Papa Gino’s company’s commissary to the Papa Gino’s locations in 2010. 

http://www.signaturegraph.com/pdfs/winter2010.pdf

The document really doesn’t tell a lot, but the one picture on the side of the truck shows what a PG pizza looks like.  From that picture it sure doesn’t look like there is a lot of cheese/or the cheese blend on that pizza.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

The document really doesn’t tell a lot, but the one picture on the side of the truck shows what a PG pizza looks like.  From that picture it sure doesn’t look like there is a lot of cheese/or the cheese blend on that pizza.

Norma,

The photo shown in the pdf document you referenced shows a Papa Gino's Rustic pizza, not their original pizza that we have been analyzing. The Rustic pizza was introduced in 2006. It is described in this document: http://www.papaginospizza.com/corporate/docs/Rustic%20Pizza%20Release.doc. According to a friend that I visit when I am in Massachusetts, the Rustic pizza is supposed to be a very good pizza. 

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

The photo shown in the pdf document you referenced shows a Papa Gino's Rustic pizza, not their original pizza that we have been analyzing. The Rustic pizza was introduced in 2006. It is described in this document: http://www.papaginospizza.com/corporate/docs/Rustic%20Pizza%20Release.doc. According to a friend that I visit when I am in Massachusetts, the Rustic pizza is supposed to be a very good pizza. 

Peter

Peter,

I didn’t know Papa Gino’s offered a Rustic pizza, or that was a Rustic pizza in the pdf document.  Thanks for referencing the document about PG’s Rustic pizza.  It does sound good. 

Norma

[norma427]

I don’t know if the PG clone dough ball will double in volume until tomorrow afternoon, but this is what it looked like today at about 1:15 pm. 

I purchased a Taylor digital refrigerator/freezer thermometer on Saturday at the WEBstaurant store http://www.webstaurantstore.com/taylor-1443-digital-refrigerator-freezer-thermometer/9131443.html because I wasn’t sure if the cheap thermometer, or my other thermometers were taking the temperatures correctly in the deli case and pizza prep fridge.  The temperature fluctuated between 38.8-39.9 degrees F in the deli case while I was at market today.  The temperature in the pizza prep fridge was lower at 35.0 degrees F today.  The PG clone dough ball was kept in the deli case since Friday and still is there.

Norma 

[norma427]

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I don’t know if the PG clone dough ball will double in volume until tomorrow afternoon, but this is what it looked like today at about 1:15 pm. 

Norma,

I think you are in very good shape. From your latest photo, I estimate that the PG clone dough has increased in volume by about 81%. By the time 3:00PM arrives tomorrow, if that is when you plan to temper the dough, I think you will be close to a doubling. After the temper time, I think there will be more than a doubling.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

I think you are in very good shape. From your latest photo, I estimate that the PG clone dough has increased in volume by about 81%. By the time 3:00PM arrives tomorrow, if that is when you plan to temper the dough, I think you will be close to a doubling. After the temper time, I think there will be more than a doubling.

Peter

Peter,

Glad to hear you think the PG clone dough ball is in very good shape for a doubling tomorrow by 3:00 pm.  I will temper the PG clone dough ball at 3:00 pm.  Thanks also for telling me your estimate is that the PG clone dough ball has increased in volume by about 81%.  I sure have a hard time looking at the spacing of the poppy seeds and knowing the percent of increase.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Thanks also for telling me your estimate is that the PG clone dough ball has increased in volume by about 81%.  I sure have a hard time looking at the spacing of the poppy seeds and knowing the percent of increase.

Norma,

Since the smallest spacing of your tape measure is 1/16", I mentally break down the spacing between the poppy seeds into 1/32" increments and use that number to do the calculations. I believe that there are some tape measures that are finer than 1/16" but for our purposes I can work with the 1/16" increments. A 1/8" spacing is equal to four 1/32" increments (that is, 4/32" equals 1/8").

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Since the smallest spacing of your tape measure is 1/16", I mentally break down the spacing between the poppy seeds into 1/32" increments and use that number to do the calculations. I believe that there are some tape measures that are finer than 1/16" but for our purposes I can work with the 1/16" increments. A 1/8" spacing is equal to four 1/32" increments (that is, 4/32" equals 1/8").

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me how you do the calculations.  On the other side of that same measuring tape there is cm, but I sure wouldn’t understand them at all, but maybe you would.  I couldn’t do the calculations for centimeters, but if you want me to measure the spacing of the poppy seeds with the other side of the measuring tape I can.  Of course it would be just in the pictures and I would have no way to be able to then do the calculations.

There are probably online conversion calculators for inches to centimeters, but I didn’t look for any.  I think you know already about my math problems.   

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

For now I am fine with the measurements you have been taking using your measuring tape.

Peter