Author Topic: Papa Gino's Recipe  (Read 78430 times)

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Offline Kostakis1985

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #360 on: October 12, 2012, 07:22:25 PM »
 Norma, no problem Ive been meaning to do that for the thread glad you appreciated it.

 About the sauce I was using Classico tomatoes the crushed ones and that worked but then I found a stanislaus product called san nicola and that really looked like PG sauce, my taste tells me oregano,salt,pepper,and I can't taste garlic at all. But I only see a normal amount of oregano. IMO I would describe PG pizza like this its simple but perfected.
 I think both those products will get you close the PG sauce has a good amount of tomato skins in it. The cheese is fantastic always leaves me wanting more.
 my best and closest pizza was on reply #216
Jamie


Offline norma427

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #361 on: October 12, 2012, 07:41:48 PM »
Norma, no problem Ive been meaning to do that for the thread glad you appreciated it.

 About the sauce I was using Classico tomatoes the crushed ones and that worked but then I found a stanislaus product called san nicola and that really looked like PG sauce, my taste tells me oregano,salt,pepper,and I can't taste garlic at all. But I only see a normal amount of oregano. IMO I would describe PG pizza like this its simple but perfected.
 I think both those products will get you close the PG sauce has a good amount of tomato skins in it. The cheese is fantastic always leaves me wanting more.
 my best and closest pizza was on reply #216

Jamie,

I did enjoy seeing a real slice of a Papa Gino’s pizza.  ;) Since I have never tasted one, it is hard for me to know if mine ever will be the same as a PG pizza, or even close.

Thanks for telling me your closest attempt to a PG pizza was at Reply 216 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg204490.html#msg204490  Your PG clone on that post looked very good.  Your dough formulation looks very similar to what Peter posted for me recently.  How thin was your pizza in that attempt?  Your rim looked a lot better than my attempts.

I appreciate you telling me what kind of Stanislaus product you found that you thought really looked like the PG sauce.  I thought I saw in a video that was posted on Youtube that the sauce had some skins.  Thanks for helping with the ingredients to add to the sauce too.  What does a real PG dough ball feel like?

Norma
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Offline Kostakis1985

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #362 on: October 12, 2012, 07:51:51 PM »
Norma,
 my pizza was thin but at PG they stretch it past 14 inches most of the time to about 15.5 inches Id say.
 A real PG dough feels like a 60-62% hydration with full strength flour from gm. when you stretch it it handles perfectly. You stretch it it stays there you suspend it in the air and it doesn't dive for the floor. Just great balance.
Jamie

Offline norma427

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #363 on: October 12, 2012, 08:02:49 PM »
Norma,
 my pizza was thin but at PG they stretch it past 14 inches most of the time to about 15.5 inches Id say.
 A real PG dough feels like a 60-62% hydration with full strength flour from gm. when you stretch it it handles perfectly. You stretch it it stays there you suspend it in the air and it doesn't dive for the floor. Just great balance.

Jamie,

Thanks for telling me at PG they stretch the skin past 14” to about 15.5”.  That is an interesting observation.  I can now see why their slices are thinner.  I wonder if Peter noticed them stretching the 16 oz. dough balls bigger than 14”, or if he thought his 14“ pizza was bigger than 14“.  Thanks also for telling what a real PG dough ball feels like.

Norma
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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #364 on: October 12, 2012, 08:56:04 PM »
Thanks for telling me at PG they stretch the skin past 14” to about 15.5”.  That is an interesting observation.  I can now see why their slices are thinner.  I wonder if Peter noticed them stretching the 16 oz. dough balls bigger than 14”, or if he thought his 14“ pizza was bigger than 14“. 

Norma,

I do not recall seeing the worker who made my 14" pizza at PGs stretch the skin beyond 14". To know that, I would have needed a tape measure to measure the skin before it was dressed and baked. However, as I noted in the antepenultimate paragraph of Reply 97 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg75760.html#msg75760, I did measure the diameter of the baked 14" pizza and it was indeed 14".

To the above, I would add that the idea of stretching the 14" to a larger size did occur to me, starting at about Reply 59 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg70978.html#msg70978 and further discussed at Reply 77 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg71109.html#msg71109. Subsequently, I actually did increase the size of a 14" PG clone skin to 15", as I discussed at Reply 79 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg71404.html#msg71404. You might even recall that I suggested that you do the same in case you experienced shrinkage with one of your PG clone skins, as mentioned in Reply 235 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg212301.html#msg212301.

Peter

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #365 on: October 12, 2012, 09:35:03 PM »
Jamie,

With respect to the PG clone dough formulation that you discussed in Reply 216 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg204490.html#msg204490, it sounds like that dough formulation looked like the one given below, but with an adjustment of the ADY because your scale could not weigh fractions of a gram:

Flour (100%):
Water (59%):
ADY (0.20%):
Salt (2%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (1.75%):
Total (162.95%):
278.37 g  |  9.82 oz | 0.61 lbs
164.24 g  |  5.79 oz | 0.36 lbs
0.56 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.15 tsp | 0.05 tbsp
5.57 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
4.87 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.07 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
453.6 g | 16 oz | 1 lbs | TF = N/A

Do you recall what flour you used and also how much the dough rose after four days of cold fermentation, when you used the dough to make the pizza?

On another matter, what cheese blend did you use, or are now using, and in what amount and in what proportions of the three cheeses?

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #366 on: October 12, 2012, 10:11:28 PM »
Norma,

I do not recall seeing the worker who made my 14" pizza at PGs stretch the skin beyond 14". To know that, I would have needed a tape measure to measure the skin before it was dressed and baked. However, as I noted in the antepenultimate paragraph of Reply 97 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg75760.html#msg75760, I did measure the diameter of the baked 14" pizza and it was indeed 14".

To the above, I would add that the idea of stretching the 14" to a larger size did occur to me, starting at about Reply 59 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg70978.html#msg70978 and further discussed at Reply 77 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg71109.html#msg71109. Subsequently, I actually did increase the size of a 14" PG clone skin to 15", as I discussed at Reply 79 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg71404.html#msg71404. You might even recall that I suggested that you do the same in case you experienced shrinkage with one of your PG clone skins, as mentioned in Reply 235 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg212301.html#msg212301.

Peter


Peter,

I know I haven’t read though this whole thread to see what all has been posted and don‘t even recall all that was posted in some links I read before.  Thank you for the links and reminders of all that was posted by you. 

Do you think on my next attempt I should stretch the skin to 15”, or should I just go with the 14” skin for now.  I don’t recall taking the final measurements of the baked attempts of a PG clone I did either to see how large the baked pizza was.  Maybe I should do that in my next attempt.

Norma
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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #367 on: October 12, 2012, 10:16:05 PM »
Do you think on my next attempt I should stretch the skin to 15”, or should I just go with the 14” skin for now.  I don’t recall taking the final measurements of the baked attempts of a PG clone I did either to see how large the baked pizza was.  Maybe I should do that in my next attempt.

Norma,

That's up to you but I think it would be interesting to see what results you get if you go to about 15"-15.5". Maybe going to the larger size you will end up with a somewhat smaller rim.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #368 on: October 12, 2012, 10:38:57 PM »
Norma,

That's up to you but I think it would be interesting to see what results you get if you go to about 15"-15.5". Maybe going to the larger size you will end up with a somewhat smaller rim.

Peter

Peter,

I will try to stretch the PG clone skin to 15"-15.5" on Tuesday.  I know I haven't gotten a smaller rim so far. 

Norma
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Offline Kostakis1985

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #369 on: October 13, 2012, 12:08:06 PM »
Jamie,

With respect to the PG clone dough formulation that you discussed in Reply 216 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg204490.html#msg204490, it sounds like that dough formulation looked like the one given below, but with an adjustment of the ADY because your scale could not weigh fractions of a gram:

Flour (100%):
Water (59%):
ADY (0.20%):
Salt (2%):
.
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (1.75%):
Total (162.95%):
278.37 g  |  9.82 oz | 0.61 lbs
164.24 g  |  5.79 oz | 0.36 lbs
0.56 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.15 tsp | 0.05 tbsp
5.57 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
4.87 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.07 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
453.6 g | 16 oz | 1 lbs | TF = N/A

Do you recall what flour you used and also how much the dough rose after four days of cold fermentation, when you used the dough to make the pizza?

On another matter, what cheese blend did you use, or are now using, and in what amount and in what proportions of the three cheeses?

Peter

Peter, For that dough I actually used pillsbury4x which surprised me how well it came out.
the cheese wasn't even close to PG I can't remember what brand it was. It was my dough, my sauce which I just spiced with oregano salt and pepper, and the pepperonis that made it taste the closest to PG pizza. The pepperonis I used were from Cara Donna distributor they were their house brand spicy pepperonis
Jamie


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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #370 on: October 13, 2012, 12:14:18 PM »
Jamie,

Thanks. Did you notice how much the dough rose by the time you decided to use it to make a pizza?

Peter

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #371 on: October 13, 2012, 12:23:21 PM »
For that dough I actually used pillsbury4x which surprised me how well it came out.

Jamie,

The Pillsbury 4X flour has a protein content of 12.6% +/- 0.3%, whereas the Spring King has a protein content of 13.2%

Peter

Offline Kostakis1985

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #372 on: October 13, 2012, 01:24:36 PM »
Jamie,

Thanks. Did you notice how much the dough rose by the time you decided to use it to make a pizza?

Peter

Peter I just judged by the activity on the bottom of the dough ball and how airy it felt after 4 days it felt right
Jamie

Offline norma427

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #373 on: October 13, 2012, 05:52:13 PM »
I call the manager of the Old mill flea and antique market this morning and asked him if I could go into market and check on the PG clone dough ball.  He said it would be okay.

It was about 10:50 am that I checked on the dough ball and the temperature in the pizza prep fridge.  After all my playing around with the temperature yesterday in the pizza prep fridge the temperature today was 41 degrees F.  I thought I don’t want to fool around with the temperature knob anymore and left it the way it was until I have to turn it down Monday.  I hope the 1 degree difference in temperature won’t make much of any difference in the way the PG clone dough ball ferments.  I also am not quite sure if the PG dough ball did ferment a little in one day, or not.  The space between the poppy seeds looks like it changed a little, but it could be just the way I place the measuring tape on the poppy seeds. 

Norma 
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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #374 on: October 13, 2012, 06:59:19 PM »
Norma,

Believe it or not, a one degree difference over 100 hours would have a measurable effect on when the dough doubles in volume. I cannot calculate the time difference, however. If you end up with 41 degrees F as the fermentation temperature until the dough doubles in volume, that in itself will be a nice experiment that will teach us something. But, there is no reason at this juncture to be concerned with a one-degree difference if it comes to that.

Looking at your most recent photos, and especially the one viewed from the bottom of the container, it does appear that the dough is doing something. I estimate an increase in the spacing of the poppy seeds of about 1/32", or maybe a bit less. A spacing of 1/32" translates to an increase in the volume of the dough of about 9.7%.

Peter

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #375 on: October 13, 2012, 10:18:31 PM »
Norma,

Believe it or not, a one degree difference over 100 hours would have a measurable effect on when the dough doubles in volume. I cannot calculate the time difference, however. If you end up with 41 degrees F as the fermentation temperature until the dough doubles in volume, that in itself will be a nice experiment that will teach us something. But, there is no reason at this juncture to be concerned with a one-degree difference if it comes to that.

Looking at your most recent photos, and especially the one viewed from the bottom of the container, it does appear that the dough is doing something. I estimate an increase in the spacing of the poppy seeds of about 1/32", or maybe a bit less. A spacing of 1/32" translates to an increase in the volume of the dough of about 9.7%.

Peter

Peter,

It is hard to believe that one degree difference over 100 hrs. would make a measurable effect when the dough doubles in volume, but I believe you.  I know you calculated what the dough ball would do based on 40 degrees F.  Between you and November being able to do all those fancy calculations I find that very interesting. 

I thought the dough looked like it was doing something too from the bottom view.  I think the reason the air pockets are on the bottom of the dough ball are because right after I had put the dough ball in the fridge at home, I recalled I didn’t scale it back to 16 ounces.  I then tried to gently take the dough ball out of the plastic container and put it on my scale so I could pinch a little dough off the one bottom side. 

Thanks for posting how much the PF clone dough ball has fermented if the spacing is 1/32”.  9.7% sounds like a lot for almost one day, with the smaller amount of yeast that was used.  I will have to change the PG clone dough ball over to the deli case on Monday, because I will have to turn the pizza prep fridge down in temperature.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #376 on: October 15, 2012, 05:14:49 PM »
Well, I guess Peter’s calculations are great  ;D, for the temperatures and amount of yeast to use for a 100 hr. cold ferment.  I know the temperatures of my final dough and pizza prep fridge weren’t exactly right, but by today at 2:00 pm the dough hasn’t doubled in size.  The bottom of the dough ball doesn’t look like it is fermenting very much either.

I took some more temperatures today with my thermometers and the temperature in the pizza prep fridge was 41.0 degrees F (with the digital candy/oil thermometer).  When I placed the Papa Dino’s clone dough ball in the deli case right after 2:00 pm today the temperature was a little under 40 degrees F with my cheap thermometer.  With my candy/oil thermometer is was 43 degrees F.  I also took some temperature readings with my digital thermometer (IR) that I use to take temperatures in my oven, but those temperatures were all over the place, even though I directed the beam right on things like cheese and other objects.  

Right after 5:00 pm today, my pizza mold was delivered.  I am going to have fun tomorrow, but first I have to learn how to use the pizza mold.  :P

Norma
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 05:16:34 PM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #377 on: October 15, 2012, 05:16:00 PM »
Norma
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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #378 on: October 15, 2012, 05:33:53 PM »
Norma,

Can you remind me again where you have been keeping the PG clone dough ball at market and the temperature of the cooling unit?

It is hard to say from the latest photo whether the dough will have doubled by 3:00PM tomorrow. So you may want to monitor the spacing of the poppy seeds. If the expansion is insufficient, you may want to give the dough more temper time at room temperature.

Peter

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #379 on: October 15, 2012, 05:40:45 PM »
Norma,
Those pizza molds are pretty cool...they make it look easy.You already do all that stuff so this should be like a walk in the park.
In case you haven't seen this or if anyone else is interested, here's a 'lil video....http://www.marsalsons.com/default.aspx?pageid=45
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"