Author Topic: Papa Gino's Recipe  (Read 67382 times)

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Online norma427

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #440 on: November 05, 2012, 05:51:37 PM »
I think the Papa Ginoís clone dough ball fermented a little too much until today, but I am not sure of that.  I am not sure why it fermented so much.

Norma
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Online norma427

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #441 on: November 07, 2012, 04:25:45 PM »
This experiment for a PG clone pizza was one that went badly wrong and was one I could have kissed goodbye.  :-* I sure donít know what I did wrong, but the PG clone dough ball did ferment too much in 4 days.  The dough ball did have a big bubble on it and was then just cut and left to sink on itself.  The dough was then room temperature fermented for 1 Ĺ hrs. and did develop another smaller bubble on the side.  The dough mold was used and the skin opened well, with no thin spots that I could see.  It was then placed on a 16Ē screen, dressed and put into the oven.  I sure donít know why, but after I thought the skin was set in the oven I went to use the metal peel to take the pizza off of the screen.  Well, the pizza had stuck in one place and I knew it was going to present a problem, so I just left it on the screen for the whole bake.  The resulting pizza weighed 1 lb. 11.3 ounces or 773 grams right out of the oven.  There was decent rim browning.  I did use the recommended cheese blend amounts and also the amount of sauce Peter recommended last week.

Since the pizza had an almost white bottom crust Steve and I put our slices in the oven to see if the bottom might become browner.  It did, but then the slices didnít taste good.  The rim tasted like cardboard and surely didnít taste like it was fermented for so long.  Steve and I also tried a slice that was just given a quick warm-up in the oven, but those slices also really tasted bad.  The cheese blend was good though.

Norma
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 04:31:50 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #442 on: November 07, 2012, 04:27:12 PM »
Norma
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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #443 on: November 07, 2012, 04:28:19 PM »
Norma
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Online norma427

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #444 on: November 07, 2012, 04:31:06 PM »
Norma
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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #445 on: November 07, 2012, 04:37:56 PM »
Norma
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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #446 on: November 07, 2012, 04:39:25 PM »
Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #447 on: November 07, 2012, 05:03:48 PM »
What in the world are you doing over there Norma!?!   ;D
Actually, that pie looks down right tasty. That last pic is a beauty. You definitely get a big A+ for effort...sorry it didn't work out for you though.   :chef:
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Online norma427

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #448 on: November 07, 2012, 05:40:58 PM »
What in the world are you doing over there Norma!?!   ;D
Actually, that pie looks down right tasty. That last pic is a beauty. You definitely get a big A+ for effort...sorry it didn't work out for you though.   :chef:

Bob,

The top of the PG clone pizza did look okay, but I think the bottom crust ruined it.  Steve even said the crust tasted like cardboard.

I have failures all the time and usually canít figure out why. 

Norma
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Offline deb415611

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #449 on: January 06, 2013, 11:53:03 AM »
life got into the way of my jumping into this thread,  finally got the Spring King flour,  mixed up yesterday, poppy seeds are 1 1/4" apart at 25 hours  :o  (I need to get a thermometer for the fridge).  I won't be able to bake them today so I'm hoping it slows down a little, I'm going to move them to the fridge downstairs that gets less use. I have mainly worked with KA flours and the Spring King is so different feeling, I can't wait to see how it bakes up.   


Offline pizza maker

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #450 on: February 18, 2013, 05:40:09 PM »
There is actually 17 oz of dough, 8 oz of sauce, 12 oz of cheese on a 14" PG pizza.  I am not sure about the cornmeal, although I think Wondra was used to dip the dough in before hand tossing. 

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #451 on: February 18, 2013, 06:02:41 PM »
pizza maker,

Can you tell me where you got the weight information you posted?

Peter

Offline pizza maker

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #452 on: February 18, 2013, 07:15:06 PM »
Hi Peter,

It's from my memory.  I worked there when I was in high school and bit after, I made so many pizza's I don't think I will ever forget!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #453 on: February 18, 2013, 09:30:49 PM »
There is actually 17 oz of dough, 8 oz of sauce, 12 oz of cheese on a 14" PG pizza.  I am not sure about the cornmeal, although I think Wondra was used to dip the dough in before hand tossing. 

pizza maker,

I think things might have changed since you last worked for Papa Gino's. If your weight data is correct, that would suggest that an unbaked PG 14" cheese pizza weighs 17 + 8 + 12 = 37 ounces. Consider that against the following:

First, one of our members, Kostakis1985 (Jamie), who is a pizza operator, was able to purchase several dough balls from a local PG in NH that were used for making 14" pizzas. He weighed them and they were 16 ounces, as he noted in one such weighing at Reply 143 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg185535.html#msg185535.

Second, if you look at the PG nutritional information at http://www.papaginos.com/nutrition/, and do a little math, you will see that a 14" cheese pizza with eight slices weighs 31.89 ounces. On one of my visits to Massachusetts a few years ago, I purchased a 14" pepperoni pizza from a PG store. The corresponding weight data for that pizza according to the PG nutritional information is 34.71 ounces. I mention the pepperoni pizza because when I weighed the one I purchased, it was only 28.7 ounces. That prompted an exchange between me and PG that resulted in the discussion at Reply 101 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg75915/topicseen.html#msg75915. Comparing your weight data against the PG weight data for a 14" cheese pizza, the difference is 5.11 ounces. That seems too big of a gap to close, especially since Jillian Greene at PG told me that their nutritional information is based on standard recipes before cooking. Even with volume measurements using standard portioning cups and ladles and the like, that gap seems too wide to overcome.

Third, Jamie was able to purchase an amount of the PG cheese blend from a PG store that was the same as used by PG to make its own 14" pizzas. As he noted at Reply 178 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg188526.html#msg188526, the weight of the cheese blend was 8.5 ounces. I later concluded that that value did not provide as good a match with the PG nutritional information as 8.75-9 ounces of the cheese blend. I do not believe that Jamie was able to get weight data for the PG sauce but I would estimate around 6-6.5 ounces by weight. The rest would be the cornmeal.

If I missed something, I would be happy to consider any further information that you may wish to provide.

Peter

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #454 on: February 19, 2013, 10:07:15 AM »
Hi Pete,

Perhaps the recipes have changed since I worked there.  When I worked there the company was owned by the original owner, Mike Valerio.  I learned a lot about life in general working for that company, most importantly that following rules is key to success.  Every item and every ingredient to every item on the menu had a printed recipe and procedure to follow.  As far as the pizza measurements.  We made dough 3 days prior to needing it to give it time in the fridge to and then room temperature to proof.  The dough recipe had specific temperatures for the flour and water, a specific order to add the ingredients into the dough machine (some stores had commissary dough, some made their own depending on how far away from the commissary the store was.  Commissary dough was never as good as store made dough!).  Each doughball for a large pizza was supposed to weigh between 17 and 17 1/4 ounces.  The dough was subject to weighing on any store visit by the Supervisor, Regional Manager, or Mike himself.  I do not remember the size of a small pizza doughball although I think it was around 10ish or 14??  There was a prescribed number of doughballs to go into each dough box, the boxes were staggered in the walk-in for proper air circulation.  Dates were placed on the boxes to make sure the dough was used on the proper day.  We would make dough on Thursday for Saturday.  If the temperature of the flour or water was off by even one degree, the dough wouldn't come out right.  Many batches of yucky sticky dough when the water temperature was too high! 

As far as making the pizzas, the dough was hand tossed using a mold to shape the dough first, we stretched the dough on the pizza bench covered in Wondra flour.  No cornmeal when I was there or with the original owner.  There were 2 ladels in the sauce pot.  I will talk about the sauce later.  One was a 6 oz ladle for small pizzas, one was an 8 oz ladle for large pizzas.  I still have and use the 8 oz ladle from the store I first worked in when it closed.  How you spread the sauce on the pizza was a written procedure, I still do it whenever I make pizza.  There were also two cups in the in pizza cheese (I will talk about the cheese later too!).  Each to measure the amount of cheese, a twelve ounce and not sure about the small, I had a cheese cup from my store too, but I got rid of it because I didn't use it at home.  There are 36 pieces of pepperoni on a large pizza.  Twelve down the center vertically, twelve across horizontally, and then each quarter filled in with 3, 2, 1 pieces.  There was a scale that the pizza piel was put on and zeroed out so as to measure each topping exactly, even removing one mushroom if it made the weight too much!  Talk about food cost control!  I don't recall the oven temperature, but I believe it was around 525 ish...that might be high.  The ovens were Hobarts with 5 rotating shelves.  We used to have contests to see how many pizzas you could put in the oven before the first came out.  Each pizza had a certain amount of time to be in the oven, but it was usually 6 times around.  Oh and the pizzas went in the oven straight onto the shelf, no screens.  The screens were used to heat individual slices of pizza.

The pizza sauce came as cans as sauce base, we added the spices which were oregano, pepper, garlic salt and maybe salt, but I don't remember if the salt was already in the tomato base or not...again each spice carefully measured!  The cheese came in 5lb bags.  The blend of cheeses in the bag, we just added the Romano and oregano to the cheese in cheese tubs. 

I worked locally in stores and then worked as a training coordinator, traveling around opening stores, hiring and training the staff, then on to the next store.  I also worked in the corporate headquarters in Dedham, all when it was family owned.  I left the company just a year or so before it was bought by a corporation in California, I think.  I am just going by my memory.  I am sure a lot of the recipes and perhaps the quality control is gone now from when it was a tightly run ship by Mike Valerio.  The lessons I learned from this company are lifelong!  Working with the public, following strict procedures and having more fun than anyone should at a job is how I remember Papa Gino's!  They say pizza sauce gets in your blood and you never loose it!  I think that is true!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #455 on: February 19, 2013, 12:00:47 PM »
pizza maker,

Thank you very much for the thoughtful post and taking the time to enter it. I found it very interesting and informative.

I first stepped into the Papa Gino's reverse engineering and cloning project in March of 2009. By that time, PG had already gone to a commissary model that served most of its stores but for a few that were too far away from the commissary. The PG dough at that time was very simple. It included just wheat flour, water, dry yeast and salt. There was no oil. The oil (soybean oil) came later, maybe between 2010 and 2012. The current PG nutritional information reflects that change. The cornmeal has always been listed as an ingredient used by PG in its products. The cornmeal is also listed in the pizza ingredients lists, along with Nutrition Facts, provided to schools where PG apparently had contracts with the schools to sell them pizzas.

This thread has become a fairly long thread but if you ever decide to read it, I think you will see the many changes that occurred at Papa Gino's since you left the company. As pizza chains go, I think that Papa Gino's is one of the better ones, even with all the changes that have taken place there over the years. In case you are interested, there is an informative discussion of the evolution of the Papa Gino's chain as a business, starting with Mike Valerio, at http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-2690200080.html.

Out of curiosity, do you recall the names of the suppliers to Papa Gino's of the cheeses and tomatoes (for the sauce), and also the brand of flour that PG was using when you worked for them?

Peter

Offline JD

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #456 on: February 19, 2013, 01:49:46 PM »
Very interesting post! Thanks for your input.

Can you expand on the use of Wondra flour? Is it more resistant to burning as compared to regular flour or semolina?


As far as making the pizzas, the dough was hand tossed using a mold to shape the dough first, we stretched the dough on the pizza bench covered in Wondra flour.  No cornmeal when I was there or with the original owner. 
Josh

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #457 on: February 19, 2013, 06:41:31 PM »
Wondra used to be very inexpensive...you can use this product straight out of the shaker container to thicken sauces and gravies without clumping. Real fine consistency...
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Offline Penguinboy

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #458 on: March 26, 2013, 02:28:16 PM »
Hi-

First post ever!   Been reading this thread for a few days now and I have Norma's 100 hr 40 degree dough ready to go tonight.  It's not exact- I used the high gluten flour from Restaurant Depot, but I followed the instructions for the cheese and sauce pretty closely.  I was wondering a few things that I didn't really see in the thread, or it's all spread around.   Are the sauce and cheese room temp when you add to the skin?  And Norma- looks like you bake on a screen then move to the oven deck.  How long each step and what temp is your oven?   I have to admit I live right in PG territory- there's one 2 miles from my house and another 3 miles in the other direction.  We like the pizza a lot and would love to be able to make it at home.  Thanks!   -Danny

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #459 on: March 26, 2013, 09:40:39 PM »
Hi-

First post ever!   Been reading this thread for a few days now and I have Norma's 100 hr 40 degree dough ready to go tonight.  It's not exact- I used the high gluten flour from Restaurant Depot, but I followed the instructions for the cheese and sauce pretty closely.  I was wondering a few things that I didn't really see in the thread, or it's all spread around.   Are the sauce and cheese room temp when you add to the skin?  And Norma- looks like you bake on a screen then move to the oven deck.  How long each step and what temp is your oven?   I have to admit I live right in PG territory- there's one 2 miles from my house and another 3 miles in the other direction.  We like the pizza a lot and would love to be able to make it at home.  Thanks!   -Danny

Danny,

The sauce I used was room temperature, but the cheese was cold when it was applied to the skin.  I only used a screen because my deck oven doesnĎt bake like a PG oven.  My deck oven is around 538 degrees F on the deck.  My deck oven bakes differently than a revolving PG oven and that is why I was using a screen, or screens.  I am sorry, but I donít recall how long I left the pizza on the screen before I placed the pizza on the deck.  I just watched the pizza.   

I got sidetracked from the Papa Ginoís experiments because I was working on another style of pizza.

Maybe Peter could help you better than I could if you want to try a clone PG pizza.

Best of luck with your PG clone!

Norma
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