Author Topic: Papa Gino's Recipe  (Read 98868 times)

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Offline pizza maker

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #450 on: February 18, 2013, 05:40:09 PM »
There is actually 17 oz of dough, 8 oz of sauce, 12 oz of cheese on a 14" PG pizza.  I am not sure about the cornmeal, although I think Wondra was used to dip the dough in before hand tossing. 


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #451 on: February 18, 2013, 06:02:41 PM »
pizza maker,

Can you tell me where you got the weight information you posted?

Peter

Offline pizza maker

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #452 on: February 18, 2013, 07:15:06 PM »
Hi Peter,

It's from my memory.  I worked there when I was in high school and bit after, I made so many pizza's I don't think I will ever forget!

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #453 on: February 18, 2013, 09:30:49 PM »
There is actually 17 oz of dough, 8 oz of sauce, 12 oz of cheese on a 14" PG pizza.  I am not sure about the cornmeal, although I think Wondra was used to dip the dough in before hand tossing. 
pizza maker,

I think things might have changed since you last worked for Papa Gino's. If your weight data is correct, that would suggest that an unbaked PG 14" cheese pizza weighs 17 + 8 + 12 = 37 ounces. Consider that against the following:

First, one of our members, Kostakis1985 (Jamie), who is a pizza operator, was able to purchase several dough balls from a local PG in NH that were used for making 14" pizzas. He weighed them and they were 16 ounces, as he noted in one such weighing at Reply 143 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg185535.html#msg185535.

Second, if you look at the PG nutritional information at http://www.papaginos.com/nutrition/, and do a little math, you will see that a 14" cheese pizza with eight slices weighs 31.89 ounces. On one of my visits to Massachusetts a few years ago, I purchased a 14" pepperoni pizza from a PG store. The corresponding weight data for that pizza according to the PG nutritional information is 34.71 ounces. I mention the pepperoni pizza because when I weighed the one I purchased, it was only 28.7 ounces. That prompted an exchange between me and PG that resulted in the discussion at Reply 101 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg75915/topicseen.html#msg75915. Comparing your weight data against the PG weight data for a 14" cheese pizza, the difference is 5.11 ounces. That seems too big of a gap to close, especially since Jillian Greene at PG told me that their nutritional information is based on standard recipes before cooking. Even with volume measurements using standard portioning cups and ladles and the like, that gap seems too wide to overcome.

Third, Jamie was able to purchase an amount of the PG cheese blend from a PG store that was the same as used by PG to make its own 14" pizzas. As he noted at Reply 178 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg188526.html#msg188526, the weight of the cheese blend was 8.5 ounces. I later concluded that that value did not provide as good a match with the PG nutritional information as 8.75-9 ounces of the cheese blend. I do not believe that Jamie was able to get weight data for the PG sauce but I would estimate around 6-6.5 ounces by weight. The rest would be the cornmeal.

If I missed something, I would be happy to consider any further information that you may wish to provide.

Peter

Offline pizza maker

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #454 on: February 19, 2013, 10:07:15 AM »
Hi Pete,

Perhaps the recipes have changed since I worked there.  When I worked there the company was owned by the original owner, Mike Valerio.  I learned a lot about life in general working for that company, most importantly that following rules is key to success.  Every item and every ingredient to every item on the menu had a printed recipe and procedure to follow.  As far as the pizza measurements.  We made dough 3 days prior to needing it to give it time in the fridge to and then room temperature to proof.  The dough recipe had specific temperatures for the flour and water, a specific order to add the ingredients into the dough machine (some stores had commissary dough, some made their own depending on how far away from the commissary the store was.  Commissary dough was never as good as store made dough!).  Each doughball for a large pizza was supposed to weigh between 17 and 17 1/4 ounces.  The dough was subject to weighing on any store visit by the Supervisor, Regional Manager, or Mike himself.  I do not remember the size of a small pizza doughball although I think it was around 10ish or 14??  There was a prescribed number of doughballs to go into each dough box, the boxes were staggered in the walk-in for proper air circulation.  Dates were placed on the boxes to make sure the dough was used on the proper day.  We would make dough on Thursday for Saturday.  If the temperature of the flour or water was off by even one degree, the dough wouldn't come out right.  Many batches of yucky sticky dough when the water temperature was too high! 

As far as making the pizzas, the dough was hand tossed using a mold to shape the dough first, we stretched the dough on the pizza bench covered in Wondra flour.  No cornmeal when I was there or with the original owner.  There were 2 ladels in the sauce pot.  I will talk about the sauce later.  One was a 6 oz ladle for small pizzas, one was an 8 oz ladle for large pizzas.  I still have and use the 8 oz ladle from the store I first worked in when it closed.  How you spread the sauce on the pizza was a written procedure, I still do it whenever I make pizza.  There were also two cups in the in pizza cheese (I will talk about the cheese later too!).  Each to measure the amount of cheese, a twelve ounce and not sure about the small, I had a cheese cup from my store too, but I got rid of it because I didn't use it at home.  There are 36 pieces of pepperoni on a large pizza.  Twelve down the center vertically, twelve across horizontally, and then each quarter filled in with 3, 2, 1 pieces.  There was a scale that the pizza piel was put on and zeroed out so as to measure each topping exactly, even removing one mushroom if it made the weight too much!  Talk about food cost control!  I don't recall the oven temperature, but I believe it was around 525 ish...that might be high.  The ovens were Hobarts with 5 rotating shelves.  We used to have contests to see how many pizzas you could put in the oven before the first came out.  Each pizza had a certain amount of time to be in the oven, but it was usually 6 times around.  Oh and the pizzas went in the oven straight onto the shelf, no screens.  The screens were used to heat individual slices of pizza.

The pizza sauce came as cans as sauce base, we added the spices which were oregano, pepper, garlic salt and maybe salt, but I don't remember if the salt was already in the tomato base or not...again each spice carefully measured!  The cheese came in 5lb bags.  The blend of cheeses in the bag, we just added the Romano and oregano to the cheese in cheese tubs. 

I worked locally in stores and then worked as a training coordinator, traveling around opening stores, hiring and training the staff, then on to the next store.  I also worked in the corporate headquarters in Dedham, all when it was family owned.  I left the company just a year or so before it was bought by a corporation in California, I think.  I am just going by my memory.  I am sure a lot of the recipes and perhaps the quality control is gone now from when it was a tightly run ship by Mike Valerio.  The lessons I learned from this company are lifelong!  Working with the public, following strict procedures and having more fun than anyone should at a job is how I remember Papa Gino's!  They say pizza sauce gets in your blood and you never loose it!  I think that is true!

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #455 on: February 19, 2013, 12:00:47 PM »
pizza maker,

Thank you very much for the thoughtful post and taking the time to enter it. I found it very interesting and informative.

I first stepped into the Papa Gino's reverse engineering and cloning project in March of 2009. By that time, PG had already gone to a commissary model that served most of its stores but for a few that were too far away from the commissary. The PG dough at that time was very simple. It included just wheat flour, water, dry yeast and salt. There was no oil. The oil (soybean oil) came later, maybe between 2010 and 2012. The current PG nutritional information reflects that change. The cornmeal has always been listed as an ingredient used by PG in its products. The cornmeal is also listed in the pizza ingredients lists, along with Nutrition Facts, provided to schools where PG apparently had contracts with the schools to sell them pizzas.

This thread has become a fairly long thread but if you ever decide to read it, I think you will see the many changes that occurred at Papa Gino's since you left the company. As pizza chains go, I think that Papa Gino's is one of the better ones, even with all the changes that have taken place there over the years. In case you are interested, there is an informative discussion of the evolution of the Papa Gino's chain as a business, starting with Mike Valerio, at http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-2690200080.html.

Out of curiosity, do you recall the names of the suppliers to Papa Gino's of the cheeses and tomatoes (for the sauce), and also the brand of flour that PG was using when you worked for them?

Peter

Offline JD

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #456 on: February 19, 2013, 01:49:46 PM »
Very interesting post! Thanks for your input.

Can you expand on the use of Wondra flour? Is it more resistant to burning as compared to regular flour or semolina?


As far as making the pizzas, the dough was hand tossed using a mold to shape the dough first, we stretched the dough on the pizza bench covered in Wondra flour.  No cornmeal when I was there or with the original owner. 

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #457 on: February 19, 2013, 06:41:31 PM »
Wondra used to be very inexpensive...you can use this product straight out of the shaker container to thicken sauces and gravies without clumping. Real fine consistency...
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Offline Penguinboy

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #458 on: March 26, 2013, 02:28:16 PM »
Hi-

First post ever!   Been reading this thread for a few days now and I have Norma's 100 hr 40 degree dough ready to go tonight.  It's not exact- I used the high gluten flour from Restaurant Depot, but I followed the instructions for the cheese and sauce pretty closely.  I was wondering a few things that I didn't really see in the thread, or it's all spread around.   Are the sauce and cheese room temp when you add to the skin?  And Norma- looks like you bake on a screen then move to the oven deck.  How long each step and what temp is your oven?   I have to admit I live right in PG territory- there's one 2 miles from my house and another 3 miles in the other direction.  We like the pizza a lot and would love to be able to make it at home.  Thanks!   -Danny


Offline norma427

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #459 on: March 26, 2013, 09:40:39 PM »
Hi-

First post ever!   Been reading this thread for a few days now and I have Norma's 100 hr 40 degree dough ready to go tonight.  It's not exact- I used the high gluten flour from Restaurant Depot, but I followed the instructions for the cheese and sauce pretty closely.  I was wondering a few things that I didn't really see in the thread, or it's all spread around.   Are the sauce and cheese room temp when you add to the skin?  And Norma- looks like you bake on a screen then move to the oven deck.  How long each step and what temp is your oven?   I have to admit I live right in PG territory- there's one 2 miles from my house and another 3 miles in the other direction.  We like the pizza a lot and would love to be able to make it at home.  Thanks!   -Danny

Danny,

The sauce I used was room temperature, but the cheese was cold when it was applied to the skin.  I only used a screen because my deck oven doesn‘t bake like a PG oven.  My deck oven is around 538 degrees F on the deck.  My deck oven bakes differently than a revolving PG oven and that is why I was using a screen, or screens.  I am sorry, but I don’t recall how long I left the pizza on the screen before I placed the pizza on the deck.  I just watched the pizza.   

I got sidetracked from the Papa Gino’s experiments because I was working on another style of pizza.

Maybe Peter could help you better than I could if you want to try a clone PG pizza.

Best of luck with your PG clone!

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #460 on: June 27, 2013, 06:27:14 PM »
Making Pizza
Papa Gino's Peter Gillespie prepping pizza during a photo shoot — at Hone Studio.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=496678350404357&set=vb.453973648008161&type=2&theater
 
The same video was posted on Papa Gino's facebook page today.
 
https://www.facebook.com/papa.ginos
I like the video because it is in slow motion and that Fresh Spinach & Veggie Pizza looks delicious to me.

I think I have to refresh myself on what I tried so far in a Papa Gino's attempt and try again.

Norma

Offline Almost A Ghost

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #461 on: February 03, 2015, 07:24:44 PM »
Well, new guy here, and I joined to post my 'success' with this recipe.


I grew up eating Papa Gino's until my family relocated to Las Vegas when I was 14. I get visit MA every summer since the company I work for is HQ'd there. There have been some Boston style pizzerias here in Las Vegas, one was having the owner's father's pizzeria send over dough since the claimed the desert humidity was stopping them from getting the dough exactly the way they wanted.


My attempt was last minute idea on a low key Saturday evening and I decided to try and use pre-made dough from Fresh'n Easy (Southwest US chain). I actually got regularly dough and whole wheat dough to experiment with.

Cheeses: Mozzarella, Provolone, and Asiago
Sauce: 28oz can of tomatoes that I crushed myself (next time I will joke find a cash for pre-crushed) w/just under 3tbsp of Oregano and a few cracks from the pepper mill
The dough: The only difference between the store bought dough and the one listed was the addition of sugar, the whole wheat dough was another story but gave a try anyways.

Taste: Exactly like Papa Gino's, or at least what I remember from 6 months ago. The pre-made dough actually worked well, except for the whole wheat.


Notes: Have to use a lot of corn meal and I mean a lot for properly shaping and moving onto the pizza stone. Practice makes perfect.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 07:27:07 PM by Almost A Ghost »

Offline ExPapa

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #462 on: May 03, 2015, 10:30:12 PM »
Hello!

A couple of pages back, Pizza Maker provided an excellent and detailed rundown of Papa Gino's recipes, ingredients and processes. I have a few things to add based on my own experience (5 year employee) as a driver, grill/deli and pizza person there...

My tenure was late 90s. Our location had gone to the commissary mode for the duration of my tenure.

Dough
-------
Would arrive every couple of days, on rolling racks, in shallow square/rectangular tubs with lids. The newest dough would arrive very cold and even near frozen. We would push the racks into the walk-in for a day or so, then they would be removed so they could proof for about a day near the pizza prep area.

When ready, before each meal shift dough would be hand-tossed into shape and placed on a screen/parchment combo. If done shortly enough before meal time, these shells would sit on a small rack on the prep counter; otherwise, they'd go into a rolling rack with some plastic sheeting to preserve moisture.

NOTES: parchment was corn-mealed heavily; dough had a grayish tint when cold/frozen; dough was VERY consistent in its behavior -- you could use your watch to know when it was at the perfect temp for tossing

Sauce
---------

Sauce came in 5-lb or so thick Mylar plastic food pack bags. Minimal spices. Clean, fresh crushed tomato, maybe a bit of salt and garlic. No oil (or none detectable). No green spices.

Cheese
---------

5-lb bags. Seemed to be a mozzarella-provolone blend with added green spices i.e. oregano, basil. I'd bet you $5 it was part-skim mozzarella because of the firm bite and the way it melted. Probably 5 oz. on a small, 8 oz. on a large.

Oven
---------

Rotating shelves, 525F at least, pizzas cooked on parchment.  About eight minutes for cheese or roni - 10-12+ for specialty with any type of veggie load.


NOTES

What I've seen about PG's sauce on here does not jibe with my own experience. Think Don Pepino's with less or no oil. (Side note: PG's pasta dish sauce was quite different, very rich and spicy, very thick. Very good too.)


Sam's Club sells a very nice 50-50 Mozzarella-Provolone blend cheese. There are no herbs but you could add them easily. While not a match, I'd call this a close match to the PG's cheese I remember.


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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #463 on: May 04, 2015, 10:03:28 AM »
ExPapa.

Thank you for the additional detail on the PG pizzas.

I did a follow-up check this morning on the ingredients used by PG to make its pizzas, including the dough (pizza shell), sauce and cheese blend. The ingredients list can be seen at http://www.papaginos.com/nutrition/ingredients/. The second cheese used as part of the cheese blend is cheddar cheese, not provolone. Also, if you compare the current ingredients list for the dough, sauce and cheese blend with what is posted in Reply 10 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8167.msg70557#msg70557, you will see that PG has not changed its pizza ingredients since the PG thread was started in 2009.

As for the mozzarella cheese, back in 2009 PG said that the mozzarella cheese was part skim: http://web.archive.org/web/20090201071500/http://papaginos.com/nutrition.html?topic=faq. The same or very similar FAQs were used for several years later. As best I can tell, the current PG FAQs are entirely different, as can be seen at http://www.papaginos.com/faqs/.

With respect to the cheddar cheese, one of our members, scott r, who ate at PG stores for years (the chain was one of his favorites), said that PG used white cheddar cheese.

On my last visit to PG, a few years ago, I saw the worker who made my pizza use parchment paper. Since in prior visits I did not see the use of parchment paper, I assumed it was because I had ordered a rustic pizza and that the use of parchment paper was for that particular style of pizza.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Papa Gino's Recipe
« Reply #464 on: June 11, 2015, 06:50:38 PM »
I don't know if anyone is interested but Pizza Quixote (Marty) visited a Papa Gino's recently and gave a review at http://mainlinepizzaquest.blogspot.com/2015/06/review-papa-ginos.html

Norma