Author Topic: Jets pizza  (Read 71057 times)

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Online norma427

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #160 on: December 19, 2011, 06:31:40 AM »
Hi Norma,

My bottom crust was indeed very crunchy and the dough reminded me of eating a Jets pizza.  I live in Michigan and Jets deep dish is actually my favorite pizza.  In my estimation, my attempt was a touch overcooked, but I recently moved, and am still tweaking cook times for my oven :)

I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but I used the Deep-Dish Dough Calculation Tool and set the "how far up the sides of the pan will the dough go" setting to 1".  I noticed you used the expanded dough calculation tool.  Everything else in my attempt was the same.  

I'm new here, but would love to contribute to anything needed to clone Jet's pizza, in particular, I'm interested in figuring out how to make a "jet fuel" clone :)




segfault,

I forgot to welcome you to the forum.  I didnít notice how many posts you had.  I also didnít know if you have been watching this thread before you were a member or not. I looked at your past posts and saw you said you have been creeping this forum for awhile, but would like to post on the Jetís thread. Since you have tasted a real Jetís pizza you already know how they should taste.  I donít know if you read Peterís detailed post at Reply 26 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg118161.html#msg118161 or not, but in that post he posted that Castella prepares proprietary blends of herbs and seasonings for end users and they donít sell directly to the public.  Peter also noted that the herbs/seasoning blend is added to the mixer bowl right after the Jet Fuel tomato product is added to the bowl along with water to thin it down.  If you read on in Peterís reply, you can find out what he posted about, if you havenít already read it.

It is great that you got a crunchy bottom crust.  :) Your home oven seems to do a better job than my deck oven.  

In my opinion it could have made a difference that you used the Deep-Dish Calculation Tool.  Do you mind posting the exact formula you used from that tool, if you can?  If you wanted to make a thicker pizza that tool does come in handy.  

Glad to hear you would love to contribute anything needed to clone a Jetís pizza.  :)

Norma
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 06:36:55 AM by norma427 »
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Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #161 on: December 21, 2011, 05:01:55 PM »
My attempt after this i reduced the "how far up the sides" from 1.25 to 1.00

Online norma427

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #162 on: December 21, 2011, 05:09:12 PM »
My attempt after this i reduced the "how far up the sides" from 1.25 to 1.00

segfault,

Thanks so much for posting the picture of how you did the formulation on the Deep dish calculation tool!  :) That should help anyone that might want to replicate your results.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #163 on: December 21, 2011, 07:27:23 PM »
segfault,

Having been involved in the design of the deep-dish dough calculating tool, along with Boy Hits Car (Mike), I can tell you that that tool is intended to be used for deep-dish pizzas, of the Chicago style with a crust thickness of a fraction of an inch, not for a pan-style pizza where the dough is proofed to rise in the pan, like a Jet's dough, a Buddy's dough, etc. Using the deep-dish dough calculating tool as a proxy for a Jet's style pizza will lead to an amount of dough that will be too much for a Jet's small 8" x 10" pizza and will not pass muster under the Jet's Nutrition Facts at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13. You will be several ounces off. The Rectangular feature was included as an option in the deep-dish dough calculating tool, even though Mike and I were not aware at the time of any pizza operator who was making a rectangular Chicago-style pizza, although maybe a Rocky Rococo pizza (http://www.rockyrococo.com/default.aspx) was a possible candidate, just in case someone wanted to attempt a rectangular deep-dish style pizza.

However, I like your creative approach and contribution to the Jet's reverse-engineering and cloning project.

Peter

Offline ahamric

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #164 on: January 17, 2012, 05:57:03 PM »
Hello All,

I just joined the forum, but I have been reading this thread for months. I just ordered some blue steel pans from Northern Pizza Equipment and am going to try my hand at one of these recipes.

Quick question: I have always used IDY in the past, just throwing it in with the dry ingredients, then adding warm water and letting it rise for a few hours. Can I do the same with the recipes that cold ferment overnight (or longer)? I purchased some ADY with the thought that it would be better for a longer rise, but I am not sure if I need to dissolve it first.

Also: In the Buddy's/Shield's thread, there were comments about the cheese "welding" itself to the sides of the steel pans without taking special care to ensure that there was oil or shortening on the sides of the pan. However, I have not seen anyone mention this here. When would this be an issue?

Thanks!

Andy

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #165 on: January 17, 2012, 07:51:30 PM »
Andy,

From the Jet's video referenced earlier in this thread, it looks like all of the water is added to the mixer bowl with the yeast. If the yeast is ADY, I assume that the water is warm, but because the dough is made and used within a short period of time, the water might not be warm. That is not the ordinary practice but it would extend the window of usability of the dough. If you plan to use ADY for a cold fermentation application, I would rehydrate the ADY in a small amount of the formula water at around 105 degrees F for about ten minutes. The rehydrated ADY can then be added to the rest of the formula water or to the rest of the ingredients in the mixer bowl. Normally, you would adjust the temperature of the part of the water not used to rehydrate the ADY to achieve a finished dough temperature of around 75-80 degrees F.

I have not seen or read anything to suggest that Jet's tries to pile the cheese against the sides of the pans. Tommy Nott may know the answer for sure since he had been buying Jet's pan pizzas for some time and had been observing their methods over the past few months.

Peter

Offline ahamric

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #166 on: January 17, 2012, 11:14:32 PM »
Thanks Peter!

I had assumed that the crusty cheese at the edges of a Jet's pizza were the same as Buddy's and Shield's, but I haven't had Buddy's or Shield's in so long... they may be taking extra steps to pile cheese at the edges while Jet's just extends the cheese to the edge without attempting to pile it up.

I got my blue steel pans (at least blue in the order name - there is no blue color but I think blue probably refers to a process of rust resistance), washed them in warm soapy water, then dried them in the oven.

While I was drying them by hand before placing them in the oven, I noticed that I was still getting gray "smudges" on my paper towel. Should I be concerned about this? I was planning on seasoning the outside of the pans as recommended elsewhere on the site, although I fail to see any harm in seasoning the inside of the pan too... even if it will season itself over time.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 11:17:08 PM by ahamric »

Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #167 on: January 27, 2012, 04:46:10 PM »
You'll want to season the inside of your blue steel pans before making pizza in them... or your pizza won't pop out nice and easy after it's baked.  Or at least that was my experience with them.

I simply :
coat pan in oil (i use corn oil)
cook @ 425 for 20 minutes
cool, repeat
coat pan 3rd time
place sheet of foil on rack, under where pan will cook
cook upside down for 20min





Thanks Peter!

I had assumed that the crusty cheese at the edges of a Jet's pizza were the same as Buddy's and Shield's, but I haven't had Buddy's or Shield's in so long... they may be taking extra steps to pile cheese at the edges while Jet's just extends the cheese to the edge without attempting to pile it up.

I got my blue steel pans (at least blue in the order name - there is no blue color but I think blue probably refers to a process of rust resistance), washed them in warm soapy water, then dried them in the oven.

While I was drying them by hand before placing them in the oven, I noticed that I was still getting gray "smudges" on my paper towel. Should I be concerned about this? I was planning on seasoning the outside of the pans as recommended elsewhere on the site, although I fail to see any harm in seasoning the inside of the pan too... even if it will season itself over time.

Offline ahamric

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #168 on: January 28, 2012, 11:05:56 PM »
Thanks Segfault!

The first attempt I used your recipe posted a bit earlier. I forgot to change it from 1.25 to 1 inch though. I only cooked it for 11:30 on the bottom rack at 475 F and it was too doughy. This attempt used 1 T and 1 t of peanut oil in the bottom (after seasoning 2 or 3 times) and the cheese stuck pretty badly to the sides. Plus the peanut oil didn't give the right flavor of a true Jet's.

Tonight I made a second attempt, reducing your deep dish recipe to 1 inch. The crust still seemed pretty thick, but I had let the dough rise over six hours in a sealed plastic container and then about four hours in the covered pan, so maybe it rose too much. Texture of the crust was really nice though after baking at 475 F on bottom rack for 15 minutes. Nice browning, and crispy bottom, although still not crunchy enough to mimic a Jet's. I eye-balled putting corn oil in the bottom of the pan. It was definitely less than last time (maybe a couple teaspoons). The crust was not greasy at all when it came out, but the flavor was more neutral. For my next attempt I think I will try 1 T of corn oil and see if I get more crunch.

This second attempt was made after seasoning the pan another two or three times, and the release was much better. Virtually no sticking to the pan. However, I wonder if I was using too much oil for the seasoning attempts. I have some gummy residue in the bottom of the pan, and if I try to use paper towels to wipe it out, they stick too much and leave paper fibers in the pan. I think I will just leave it as is for the next try.

Offline sailor570

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #169 on: January 29, 2012, 03:36:55 AM »
Peter
I'm puzzled.
In reading this topic it seems you are still looking for TF or dough weights for the 3 sizes.
Did you miss that information in reply 65, or did you deem his info to be less than accurate?
From my experience, and I'm by no means saying it's more than yours, his weights seem pretty good.

Thank You
Blair


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #170 on: January 29, 2012, 10:48:46 AM »
Blair,

I did see the reply you referenced but I had difficulty in matching it with the Jet's Nutrition Facts. There is also the issue of reliability. As noted earlier in this thread, I was given incorrect information on pan sizes, either innocently or intentionally. Also, one of our members tried recently to have questions about the Jet's Nutrition Facts answered (by a Jet's corporate employee) and was given evasive answers and the runaround. The member was also knowingly (in my opinion) given incorrect information by a worker in one of the Jet's stores where he has been buying pizzas for years. Even that information was at odds with the Jet's Nutrition Facts. Because of issues like these, I have become increasingly suspect of information given by present or former employees of companies whose products I try to reverse engineer and clone. For example, if you go over to the Mellow Mushroom thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.0.html, I would say that there were perhaps a half dozen instances where we were given incorrect information by Mellow Mushroom employees or in materials put out by Mellow Mushroom. Jet's happens to be more careful about their operations than Mellow Mushroom seems to be, as can be seen by the way that they hide what they do by using special packaging for their canned tomatoes and flour. Their employees at the store level are also instructed not to reveal information to outsiders, like customers, on their operations.

One of these days, I will perhaps get back to this project. My practice is to stay with a project until I am either done or can't take it any further. As one who has a "I will work for food" philosophy, I try to encourage our members to become more actively involved in reverse engineering and cloning projects, especially for clones or copycats of chain pizzas that are in great demand, rather than leaving all of the work to be done by one or a few of the members--which can take months--and simply wait until all the answers are in and then conveniently take the final formulation and leave the forum.

Peter

Offline ahamric

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #171 on: February 05, 2012, 10:31:43 AM »
Hello folks,

I made segfault's recipe again and I need some help tweaking it. The recipe I used was from the deep-dish too (TF entered as 0.15 and 1 inch up the sides):

Flour (100%):
Water (65%):
IDY (.3851%):
Salt (1.75%):
Sugar (2.1875%):
Total (169.3226%):
272.76 g  |  9.62 oz | 0.6 lbs
177.29 g  |  6.25 oz | 0.39 lbs
1.05 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.35 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
4.77 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.99 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
5.97 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
461.84 g | 16.29 oz | 1.02 lbs | TF = 0.15225

Here is what I did:

I mixed the dry ingredients together (using King Arthur Bread Flour), then poured 110 F water into my KA stand mixer bowl. I put it on the lowest setting and beat it (C-hook) until the dough started getting incorporated (~45 s), then put the mixer up one setting and beat for 5 minutes. After this I transferred the ball to a plastic container coated in Pam, then oiled the top with corn oil and sealed the container for 5 hours.

I coated the 8x10 blued steel pan with 1 T corn oil (silicone brush) and stretched the dough out into the pan, covered with a lid for about one hour 15 minutes, then dressed with some 6-in-1 (previously frozen), 6 oz mozzarella, pepperoni, sausage, and green olives. I baked it on the bottom rack at 475 F for 16 minutes, which was 1 minute longer than my last attempt.

Observations: The cheese started to brown on the top near the edges, so I don't want to bake it much longer. The bottom was nicely browned, but the crisp seemed to mostly be on the surface and did not penetrate up into the crust as much as I would like. Also, the crunch is not as hard as I want. Additionally, the top half of the dough was not baked through enough and tasted doughy. At first I thought it might be due to some water released by the 6-in-1 during the thaw, but I had this same problem last time and that time I used the 6-in-1 straight from the can.

I converted segfault's recipe to the regular dough calculator, and discovered that the thickness factor is about 0.20!

Flour (100%):
Water (65%):
IDY (.3851%):
Salt (1.75%):
Sugar (2.1875%):
Total (169.3226%):
271.91 g  |  9.59 oz | 0.6 lbs
176.74 g  |  6.23 oz | 0.39 lbs
1.05 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.35 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
4.76 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.99 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
5.95 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.49 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
460.4 g | 16.24 oz | 1.01 lbs | TF = 0.203

Questions:

1. Will  changing the dough to a TF of, say, 0.15 allow my crust to cook through?
2. Will more oil give me a deeper, harder crunch? If not, do you have any suggestions? I thought of trying to change oven temperature but I am really at a loss for what might allow the bottom to cook harder without browning the top too much. Maybe use my pizza stone?

Thanks for everyone's help! This forum is fantastic and even with the limitations of my above experiences, I am still making remarkably good pizza!

Andy

« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 10:34:48 AM by ahamric »

Offline joelb79

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #172 on: February 17, 2012, 09:44:37 PM »
GFS indicate they do not handle Grande.

My local GFS has had Grande in 5lb Shredded bags for a cost premium above their Primo Gusto brand. Honestly when checking the dates, the Grande has a best by date 2 days from the date I saw it and I was in at closing. They had significant stock of it. The Primo Gusto was marked with a best by date 3 weeks out and was cheaper, and available in diced, shredded, whole milk and part skim, as well as part skim/prov mixes. I went back another date and the space where the Grande branded products were was filled with solely Primo Gusto

So, it wouldn't be wise to assume that GFS doesn't carry or deal with Grande. I didn't see the reason for the extra $5 for my home pies, especially when it would spoil before use. Also, they do not seem to consistently carry it up front. I'm sure for business accounts they may deal differently than retail/display space. Looks like I'll give that grande a try if they have it out again, since I like Jet's cheese so much.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 01:02:52 AM by joelb79 »

Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #173 on: August 12, 2012, 01:19:07 AM »
bought a house :)  finally trying a deep dish in a new oven.  So excited to have gas burners again!

the usual formula tweaked abit (.85 inch rise)  and i prebaked (see below)

ambient temp was only 75 degrees and I was in a time pinch so i preheated the oven to like 150 then turned it off
set dough in pan and let it rise for about 4 hours
prebake in oven @ 500 for 5 min (was too long, next time 2 or 3 min)
bake @ 475 for 17 min..... about 1/4 off bottom of oven

after 17 min...... determinted it needed to be cooked more (bottom wasn't crispy) so i bumped the oven up to 500 and set the timer to 7 min.

wasn't really a good "jets" replication but it still tasted good :)

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #174 on: August 12, 2012, 01:30:25 AM »
I like how you are so specific about your temps. an times. You will get this dialed in so quickly. Good for you...thanks for the pics too!   ;)
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #175 on: October 01, 2012, 04:25:27 PM »
I just found out I have a new Jets Pizza now in my area.....any suggestions? I see that you can order a pie that each slice is a corner piece....folks must luv them Jetts corners!  ;D
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Offline jetsaddict

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #176 on: October 14, 2012, 08:13:25 PM »
Thanks everyone for their contributions.  Decided to start baking to save money, as a bag of flour is insanely cheaper than buying the stuff you can make with it.  Baked my first loaf of bread yesterday, that's as far as my experience goes.  I mainly want to make my own pizza, as buying jets only once a week or so is as much as I have been able to cut back, which is still $15-$20 a week, $80 a month, etc.   

I used the deep dish dough calculator and the values segfault posted.  I used pilsbury bread flour.  Let the dough rise in the bowl for about an hour and a half, and it didn't seem to rise as much as the bread I made yesterday.  The only pan I had was a new 9x5 cheap bread pan.  Oiled the pan with soy bean oil, but the no stick made the oil pool and bead up.  I'm guessing a real pizza pan isn't non stick and would help with this.

I spread the dough in the pan, had a hell of a time getting the dough to go up the edges to form a crust, then let rise for about 3 hours.  After the dough rose again, the edges were easier to form.  I think if the dough was a little drier I could have made the sides a little thicker. The dough seemed too liquidy, but I don't know I've never worked with dough before.   

I used some store bought prego pizza sauce, tasted way too acidic, added sugar to it and it wasn't bad.  Jet's has pretty good pizza sauce, but there's tons of pizza sauce recipes out there so I'm sure I can improve on this, the crust and dough is what makes a Jets pizza for me (and the ranch), the sauce and cheese don't have to be exact. 

I have a very old gas oven, and I preheated it to about 500 F for a half hour with a pizza stone on the second to lowest rack height.  I don't recall anyone else posting how they cooked it, if the used a stone or not, but I figured this would help give the bottom that deep fried crust while not cooking the top as fast. 

I turned the oven down some, somewhere between 450 and 500 F, the oven is not that exact and put the pizza in.  Set a timer for 10 minutes because the pan was so small.  It was done after the ten minutes, faster than I thought, but the cheese was starting to bubble and brown.

It turned out great, not quite Jets, but its a good substitute.  The bottom looked almost the same, much like the other posters, golden brown with the bubbles that weren't' touching the pan. The edges were almost just like Jets but not as thick, although towards the center the pizza was not as crunchy, like others have posted in this thread.  Using a real pizza pan, without the oil beading and pooling up in the nonstick bread pan I used would help I think.   

The dough was not quite as fluffy or thick as jets, maybe could rise longer or use more yeast? Or possibly even more dough?  Jets also seems to have the bottom 1/4" of dough deep fried, where mine was just the 1/8" or less of the bottom, if that makes any sense.  There was no grease or oil left on my pizza, where jets usually has ample.  Maybe use more oil in the pan next time, and a real pan might help.  I don't think using the soybean oil I had would be any different from corn oil.

The top was doughy like Jets, probably helped by the fact I used too much sauce, and a little too much cheese.  I'm sure getting the entire bottom fried and leaving to top doughy would be very hard to accomplish without the conveyor belt ovens they have.  My oven goes up to 550, I was thinking of preheating the pizza stone as high as I can then turning the oven down to cook the pizza, I'm just worried the edges might get burnt.

I made my own ranch with hidden valley buttermilk packet.  I used one cup of buttermilk, half a cup of mayo, and half a cup of sour cream.  Pretty close to jets ranch, but not as tangy and I think I can taste the mayo.  Jets has the best ranch imo.  My fiance used to work at jets like ten years ago and she swears they used hidden valley packets to make their ranch.  But Jet's ranch seems more oily than what I made, do people make ranch with oil?  From what she remembers the pizza making procedure is the same as everyone else described.     

I can't believe how good my pizza turned out, especially using a bread pan and never baking anything before.  Thought I'd share how mine turned out, thanks everyone for trying to replicate Jet's and posting the results. 

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #177 on: October 14, 2012, 08:29:13 PM »
Sounds great addict...your instincts are quite impressive so it is no wonder your first attempt turned out so well. Go with that different pan idea of yours...you will see a BIG improvement.  ;)
Nice job man!  :chef:
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Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #178 on: March 17, 2014, 10:06:40 PM »
i feel like bumping this thread, for the past year(s)+ I've played around with the amount of corn oil i use, bake times, temperatures, and can never quite replicate the crunch that a jet's pizza provides.  short of getting a temp job there, i'm throwing in the towel :P


Online norma427

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #179 on: March 18, 2014, 06:39:41 AM »
i feel like bumping this thread, for the past year(s)+ I've played around with the amount of corn oil i use, bake times, temperatures, and can never quite replicate the crunch that a jet's pizza provides.  short of getting a temp job there, i'm throwing in the towel :P


segfault,

You might want to look at Peter post at Reply 7 and some of other posts on that thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=23495.msg238665#msg238665 to see if you can get some helpful information about a Jet's pizza.

The Sicilian pizzas I was experimenting with on another thread really weren't a Jet's clone, but I was trying to achieve something like a Jet's pizza.  This is one example of the Sicilian pizza I made at Reply 60 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=18281.msg180372#msg180372 and the next few posts.  If you look through that thread it can be seen what formulations I tried.

Norma
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