Author Topic: Jets pizza (Read 48270 times)

norma427 · « **Reply #60 on:** March 29, 2011, 10:27:56 PM »

formula used for this attempt

Norma

Pete-zza · « **Reply #61 on:** March 30, 2011, 08:01:15 AM »

Norma,

As best I can tell, Jet's makes a rectangular/square pizza and a round pizza, using different flours and possibly different formulations. This thread has been devoted thus far to the rectangular/square format. Are you looking to make the rectangular/square pizza but in a round format?

Looking at your dough formulation, it appears that the ingredients are in the right pecking order for the rectangular/square Jet's format. I have not seen or found a dough ingredients list for the dough for the Jet's round pizza.

Also, is there a particular reason why you chose the particular dough preparation sequence you used rather than the one shown in the original Jet's video?

Peter

norma427 · « **Reply #62 on:** March 30, 2011, 09:35:46 AM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on March 30, 2011, 08:01:15 AM

Norma,

As best I can tell, Jet's makes a rectangular/square pizza and a round pizza, using different flours and possibly different formulations. This thread has been devoted thus far to the rectangular/square format. Are you looking to make the rectangular/square pizza but in a round format?

Looking at your dough formulation, it appears that the ingredients are in the right pecking order for the rectangular/square Jet's format. I have not seen or found a dough ingredients list for the dough for the Jet's round pizza.

Also, is there a particular reason why you chose the particular dough preparation sequence you used rather than the one shown in the original Jet's video?

Peter

Peter,

I did see Jet’s makes a round pizza, but I wanted to try to see if I could make a Jet’s rectangular/square pizza. I don’t have the right kind of steel baking pan to try, so I thought I would try out my 18" steel baking pan, but since I forgot that when I went to market, I had to find another pan to try.

The only reason I tried the mixing the way I did was I wanted to see if a lower hydration dough could be mixed just with the paddle attachment, with bread flour. I found out that didn’t work to well. I had to use the dough hook to finish the dough. The next time I try this formula out, I will mix the way that is shown in the video. I am not to sure when I make my next attempt if I should use the bread flour I used or go with bromated high-gluten flour. I don’t understand either why the bottom crust didn’t get more crisp, with all the olive oil I used, but it still was good.

If you have any other ideas for me to try next time or see changes I should make, let me know.

These are a few pictures of the dough used for my attempt, that I forgot to include last evening. The first two pictures are of the dough before it was divided and the last picture is before the proofing of the dough in the pan.

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #63 on:** April 05, 2011, 11:43:42 PM »

I used the leftover frozen dough from my last post and tried another Jet’s pizza today. Since I didn’t know what TF I was using again, because it was the leftover dough, I tried my round deep-dish pan (not steel) for this attempt. I also used more olive oil in the pan. This attempt turned out much better and although the bottom isn’t altogether brown, this pizza did have a definite crunch when eaten. I really don’t know how a Jet’s pizza is suppose to taste, but the pizza was really good. Both Steve and I agreed that this was better than last weeks attempt. Steve and I gave some other standholders slices of this pie and they also really liked this pie.

Pictures below

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #64 on:** April 05, 2011, 11:45:29 PM »

end of pictures

Norma

jets147 · « **Reply #65 on:** April 06, 2011, 01:43:53 AM »

when i first saw this post i laughed for a few minutes. jets pizza is extreamly easy to make and produce. you need a few things. this first step is how much do u want. typeically if u want to make a lot. u make a four water. which is 16 quarts of hot water. the water must be hot. if the water is steaming it is too hot and u will burn out the yeast. the next things u will need are simple. 1 cup of sugar, salt, and yeast. stir with wisp to make sure contents are mixed well and get and even taste. next is your flour. bromated flour is fine, but it tends to get more air bubbles. i would stick with none bromated. 50 pounds bags of flour we use are specically designed for jets pizza. no other pizza place use the same ingriedents as us. if u want more details on the flour jets email me Kendrick.vandenberg@gmail.com. when the dough is completed is should not be stiff. it should be soft and sticky. the reason for the soft and sticky is when u go to throw the dough out, it is easier to stretch and fit into the pan. now the pans are extreamly hard to come by now a days becuase they have been banned by the fda. now they are only offerd outside the country or threw other store owners. smalls are 12 oz larges are 21 and xtra larges are 31. after put into the pans, depending on the temp of store it takes 30 mins to 1 hour for the dough top rise. (make sure ur pans have corn oil on them)after that it u must "press the dough out" this processes is basically makeing the dough fit to the pan corner to corner. once pressed out it takes about 45 mins for it rise again. now, it can be more then 45 mins if u want. or less. more time u wait the fluffier the dough will be.

I am a manager at jets pizza and i have been doind this routine for about 3 years now, i know it like the back of my hand. jets has rounds too, although we don't sell nearly as many as our sqaure deep dish. we just interdouced a new type of flour, a multi-grain. so far it is not popular.
honestly it taste like bark from a tree.

as for chesse it low moisture skim. shred well.

as for sauce i cant do much for u. we regular tomato sauce as the base. the spice i don't know becuase there is no way to find out unlesss u go to manufatcer. on the package it just says " Spices " there is obviously iregeno and garlics. but which ones i don't know.

do not do your rounds in pans. it is a waste of money to use the pans for rounds. use a round metal screen.

i saw this site when i was messing around. i am always looking for new places to work. so if anyone is a busness owner and wants a person with great pizza expiernece email me at kendrick.vandenberg@gmail.com. and questions email me.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #66 on:** April 06, 2011, 06:12:48 PM »

jets147,

Did you forget the corn oil (and its amount) added to the dough (or to the water used to make the dough) as opposed to the corn oil (and its amount) used in the pans? Also, does your store have and use a proofer?

Peter

jets147 · « **Reply #67 on:** April 08, 2011, 11:24:52 PM »

no corn oil is needed for the dough to be made. but there does need to be oil in the pans. yes our store does have a proofer. but we just use it as a hotbox to store orders.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #68 on:** April 08, 2011, 11:45:37 PM »

jets147,

Thank you. Before I posed the question to you, I went back and looked at the Jet's video again. I saw dry ingredients in the mixer bowl before the water was added, but I did not see any oil anywhere near the dough. I concluded that the only oil was for the pans. Obviously, some of the oil ends up in the pizza and that is why the ingredients list I saw lists oil. You can't always tell when a video is staged in some fashion or edited to leave certain things out, so I wasn't completely sure about the oil. But you confirmed my suspicions.

With respect to the proofer, I was told (I believe it was a person with the company that makes proofers for Jet's) that Jet's does use its proofers for holding purposes.

Peter

Pete-zza · « **Reply #69 on:** April 10, 2011, 02:13:54 PM »

After analyzing the information provided recently by jets147, I have concluded that that information conforms to the ingredients list as provided at page 35 of the document at http://www.northville.k12.mi.us/district/foodservice/pdfs/MSIngred.pdf. The ingredients list in that document shows the inclusion of oil, so presumably that is the portion of the total oil that actually ends up in the finished crust (or it may be oil that is used to coat dough balls), with the rest being the oil that is added to the pans before the dough is formed into skins in the pans. I was able to come up with a dough formulation and to assess it in relation to the methods shown in the Jet's video at

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lxLBp4-8dE" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lxLBp4-8dE</a>

. As it turns out, it appears that I originally guessed correctly on the hydration and the amount of ADY after first seeing the video. I suspected (correctly) that dough hydration would be less of an issue if the dough is pressed into pans, or even put through a commercial roller/sheeter (with any necessary bench flour). I would not have had any idea as to the amount of sugar and salt without having sampled a real Jet's pizza crust.

A few pieces of the puzzle remain. One is the type of flour. I believe that the flour is bleached but not bromated. That means that the flour can be just about anything, including all-purpose flour, bread flour or high-gluten flour. I would prefer that no insider reveal that information to the forum. Also, I have not yet had a chance to study the Jet's Nutrition information in detail to see if that will reveal anything with respect to the type of flour used.

The more significant missing piece of the puzzle is the thickness factor. The value of the thickness factor would allow one to use the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with a dough weight for any size pan. What complicates the exercise is the fact that the three pans used by Jet's to make its pizzas are sloping-sided rather than straight-sided. I did some quick research on how pan producers who manufacture square and rectangular Sicilian/Sicilian-style pans size those pans and it appears that the dimensions they use are the top dimensions. For example, I have an 8" x 12" PSTK sloping-sided pan from PizzaTools(http://www.pizzatools.com/Square_Sicilian_Pans/30879/subgrouping.htm). It is quoted as an 8" x 12" pan. However, the bottom dimensions appear to be about 11" x 7" (or maybe slightly larger). A further complication is that I was unable to find a manufacturer who makes the 13” x 15” (large), and 15” x 18” (extra large) pans used by Jet's. PizzaTools makes a 10" x 10" pan, which Jet's calls "small", and P.A. Products (http://www.paprod.com/pans.html) offers sloping-sided blue steel pans in the sizes 8" x 10", 10" x 14" and 12" x 17". Owners of the latter pans would have to have an accurate thickness factor in order to improve their chances of coming up with a viable Jet's clone dough and pizza.

I was hoping and expecting that member boboo (Bob) would have helped advance the clone project by providing information on real Jet's pizzas, including finished pizza weights and dimensions. After all, he was the member who was most motivated by the desire to replicate a Jet's dough and pizza. In fact, I saw that he also went over to the PMQ Think Tank in search of help (see http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9214&p=66323&hilit=#p66323). But, alas, Bob has been missing in action on the forum since just before last Xmas, not long after I had developed a plan of attack for him to execute.

Peter

PizzaHog · « **Reply #70 on:** April 20, 2011, 10:36:02 AM »

This took about forever but I finally found time to pick up a Jet's and take some measurements as promised long ago.
I picked up a small square with peperoni only, uncut.
Dimensions:
Crust thickness at edge varied from 1 to 1 1/4 inches.
Width at bottom 6 3/4 inches.
Width at top 6 7/8 inches
Length at bottom 8 3/4 inches.
Length at top 8 7/8 inches.
Crust thickness interior to the edge varied and was as low a 1/2 inch, showing compression of the dough under the weight of the toppings common on the Detroit style.
Weight of the pie, less the peperoni 685 grams, 715 grams with.
The Jets I visited free hands the toppings and over the years I have noted quite a variance. This pie was heavily topped compared to the average. There were as many peperoni slices on this small (20) as I have sometimes seen on a large. The slices are 1 1/2 inch. This pie was also cheese and sauce heavy.
And what did I see as I walked in? One of the pizza assemblers opening up a case of Grande shredded low moisture part skim Mozz.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #71 on:** April 20, 2011, 01:02:34 PM »

Hog,

Thank you for helping out on this project. However, it does deal us a setback--at least for now. Some time ago, I was told (by a Jet's employee over the phone) that the "small" Jet's pan was 10" x 10". The dimensions of the small pizza that you gave do not jive with a 10" x 10" pan. The Jet's pan that was used to make your pizza must have been a rectangular pan, not a square pan, and with a smaller overall footprint. It's possible that the Jet's you went to is using an 8" x 10" pan (top dimensions) for its small square pizzas. You might recall from media reports a while back that there was a shortage of the steel pans and member jet147 mentioned recently that there was some kind of problem with the Jet's pans and the FDA. The 8" x 10" size pan, if correct, is available from P.A. Products (http://www.paprod.com/pans.html) and also from Northern Pizza Equipment (http://yhst-14911471596624.stores.yahoo.net/8x10blstpan.html), both of which are located in Michigan. If the actual size pan is 8" x 10", I don't know what that does to the Jet's nutrition data, especially if different Jet's locations are using different pan sizes. It is now also unclear as to whether the pans now being used to make the large and extra large Jet's square pizzas have been replaced by other pan sizes.

Nonetheless, the information you provided is helpful. I plan to study the dimensional data you posted to see if I can divine anything useful from it. I will also be looking at the Jet's nutrition data to see if that fits with the information you provided.

To avoid confusing our members on the pan size issue, I deleted my last post that was devoted to that subject.

Peter

Pete-zza · « **Reply #72 on:** April 20, 2011, 01:09:08 PM »

Quote from: PizzaHog on April 20, 2011, 10:36:02 AM

And what did I see as I walked in? One of the pizza assemblers opening up a case of Grande shredded low moisture part skim Mozz.

Hog,

I forgot to ask in my last post. Are you sure that the Grande mozzarella cheese was already shredded? I had read reports that the mozzarella cheese in some Jet's locations is shredded in-store from blocks. I believe that the specs are the same for the Grande block and shredded low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheeses, and that the shredded form does not contain any ingredients to prevent clumping.

Peter

PizzaHog · « **Reply #73 on:** April 20, 2011, 08:02:47 PM »

Hey Peter
My recollection is that Jets smalls have always been rectangular. This last one did appear small to me when I opened the box though! I just called the same Jets and asked how big their small was. 6 slices (I'm positive they used to be eight). How many inches? Approx 10x7. Now I am wondering if I mismeasured the length or if they are making them smaller. I was so engrossed with the cheese I paid no attention to their pans to notice anything different. But unless they recently changed as you mention, at least at the location I am most familiar with, the pans are not the PA Products style steelbaker and I have. No exposed wire corners and they appear to be heavier and thicker. Could be another pan in their line though for sure. I could hardly believe it when I noticed the box of Grande being carried out, opened, and bags of shredded pulled out, no doubt about it.
Still have a quarter of this pie so rechecked and width measurment is correct. I will pick up another one in the near future and recheck everything just to be sure, and see if the pans look to be newish or diff. The pan and size thing really has me thinking...

Pete-zza · « **Reply #74 on:** April 20, 2011, 09:19:34 PM »

Hog,

Here is a photo of the small Jet's square pepperoni pizza: http://jetspizza.com/menu/item/23. I believe that you are right that the pizza is actually rectangular. Your photos make that clear.

I also took the weight data that you provided and checked it against the Jet's nutrition data at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13. According to that data, a small square cheese pizza, baked, weighs 6 x 114 grams = 684 grams. Your weight, less the pepperoni, was 685 grams. So, you were right on the money. A small square pepperoni and cheese pizza, baked, weighs 6 x 116 grams = 696 grams. Your weight was 715 grams. However, you noted that you got more pepperoni slices than normal. Like you, I counted 20 slices whereas the photo referenced above shows about 15 slices. You also noted that they were heavy on the sauce. So, both of those factors could have accounted for your slightly overweight pizza.

With respect to the cheese and sauce for your small Jet's square pizza, can you venture an estimate of their respective weights?

Peter

PizzaHog · « **Reply #75 on:** April 21, 2011, 08:59:32 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on April 20, 2011, 09:19:34 PM

Hog,

With respect to the cheese and sauce for your small Jet's square pizza, can you venture an estimate of their respective weights?

Peter

Peter,
Can only guess maybe 6-7 oz of cheese, 3 oz sauce. Will attempt more detailed info on the next one.
Hog

gschwim · « **Reply #76 on:** April 24, 2011, 08:19:02 PM »

Here in NYC, I haven't been able to find a reliable source of cheese made from milk from cows that lie on mattresses and listen to music. So I tried buying my usual cheese and after putting it in the fridge, lying on a mattress and listening to music myself.

Works for me!

Gene

Pete-zza · « **Reply #77 on:** April 28, 2011, 11:13:01 AM »

As I was conducting further research on the Jet's pizzas recently, I came across a website of a company called Pizzapanlids, at http://www.pizzapanlids.com/, where I learned for the first time that Jet's, at least in some of its stores, uses pan lids for its pans. I was especially intrigued by the perceived benefits of using the lids, including the following:

2.Better for your dough
a.Faster proofing time
b.Rises higher
c.Results in fluffier crust
d.Lasts longer in the cooler

It strikes me as quite possible that, given that Jet's does not use bromated flours (according to Jet's corporate office), the lids might help produce a better rise and a more open and airy finished crust. The lids also prevent "crud" from the bottoms of pans that are stacked from falling into the dough of lower pans in the stack.

I also wondered whether one, including interested members of our forum, could purchase lids from Pizzapanlids. To find out, I called Damon at Pizzapanlids and had a nice discussion with him on his company's products. As it turns out, his company works through distributors and, as a result, does not sell directly to individuals. However, as I noted yesterday at Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13687.msg137053.html#new, a Michigan company by the name of Northern Pizza Equipment, at http://www.northernpizzaequipment.com/bluesteelpans.html, offers the lids from Pizzapanlids. The blue steel pans for which the lids were designed can also be purchased from Northern.

Perhaps the most important information that I got from Damon is on the sizes of the pans used by Jet's. Obviously, as a supplier to Jet's, Pizzapanlids would know the Jet's pan sizes. As it turns out, the sizes I was previously given (by a Jet's store manager), and which I originally reported at Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg118161.html#msg118161, were incorrect. It's possible, I suppose, that different Jet's stores are using different pan sizes, with or without lids, or maybe the dimensions I was given were incorrectly measured, but the correct pan sizes for the Jet's pans are 8" x 10", 10" x 14" and 12" x 17", all as noted at the Northern website. As mentioned at Reply 1 referenced above, I was also told that Jet's uses the blue steel pans sold by Northern (which procures them from P.A. Products, also a Michigan company, at http://www.paprod.com/pans.html).

I have edited Reply 26 to reflect the new pan size information.

Peter

Pete-zza · « **Reply #78 on:** April 29, 2011, 10:57:20 AM »

For more on the subject of the manufacturer of the blue steel pans used by Jet's and others who sell the Detroit square pan pizzas, as well as sources of those pans for our members, see the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13687.msg137011.html#msg137011.

Peter

Pete-zza · « **Reply #79 on:** May 01, 2011, 08:40:51 AM »

Hog,

Quote from: PizzaHog on April 20, 2011, 10:36:02 AM

I picked up a small square with peperoni only, uncut.
Dimensions:
Crust thickness at edge varied from 1 to 1 1/4 inches.
Width at bottom 6 3/4 inches.
Width at top 6 7/8 inches
Length at bottom 8 3/4 inches.
Length at top 8 7/8 inches.
Crust thickness interior to the edge varied and was as low a 1/2 inch, showing compression of the dough under the weight of the toppings common on the Detroit style.
Weight of the pie, less the peperoni 685 grams, 715 grams with.
The Jets I visited free hands the toppings and over the years I have noted quite a variance. This pie was heavily topped compared to the average. There were as many peperoni slices on this small (20) as I have sometimes seen on a large. The slices are 1 1/2 inch. This pie was also cheese and sauce heavy.

I believe that your dimensions as given above may be correct. I happened to be at the website of Cloverleaf's, also a well known Detroit-style pizza operator, and noticed that at http://www.cloverleafonline.com/mailorder.php they are selling mail-order pizzas. You will note the statement that their mail-order pizzas are 7" x 9". No doubt they are using an 8" x 10" sloping-sided pan like the others. Remember, that the 8" x 10" dimensions are taken across the top of the pan. So, I think your numbers may be right for an 8" x 10" pan.

I was looking at the Jet's nutrition data for a small square pepperoni pizza and the amount of pepperoni seems quite small. Is Jet's using a very thin sliced pepperoni by any chance? And is there a lot of oiling off of the pepperoni that you can tell? The photos you posted don't seem to show much oiling off. It may also be that Jet's uses less cheese and/or sauce for a small square pepperoni pizza than for a cheese pizza.

Peter