Author Topic: Jets pizza  (Read 86445 times)

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Offline PizzaHog

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #75 on: April 21, 2011, 08:59:32 PM »
Hog,

With respect to the cheese and sauce for your small Jet's square pizza, can you venture an estimate of their respective weights?

Peter

Peter,
Can only guess maybe 6-7 oz of cheese, 3 oz sauce.  Will attempt more detailed info on the next one.
Hog


Offline gschwim

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #76 on: April 24, 2011, 08:19:02 PM »
Here in NYC, I haven't been able to find a reliable source of cheese made from milk from cows that lie on mattresses and listen to music.  So I tried buying my usual cheese and after putting it in the fridge, lying on a mattress and listening to music myself.

Works for me!

Gene

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #77 on: April 28, 2011, 11:13:01 AM »
As I was conducting further research on the Jet's pizzas recently, I came across a website of a company called Pizzapanlids, at http://www.pizzapanlids.com/, where I learned for the first time that Jet's, at least in some of its stores, uses pan lids for its pans. I was especially intrigued by the perceived benefits of using the lids, including the following:

2.Better for your dough
   a.Faster proofing time
   b.Rises higher
   c.Results in fluffier crust
   d.Lasts longer in the cooler


It strikes me as quite possible that, given that Jet's does not use bromated flours (according to Jet's corporate office), the lids might help produce a better rise and a more open and airy finished crust. The lids also prevent "crud" from the bottoms of pans that are stacked from falling into the dough of lower pans in the stack.

I also wondered whether one, including interested members of our forum, could purchase lids from Pizzapanlids. To find out, I called Damon at Pizzapanlids and had a nice discussion with him on his company's products. As it turns out, his company works through distributors and, as a result, does not sell directly to individuals. However, as I noted yesterday at Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13687.msg137053.html#new, a Michigan company by the name of Northern Pizza Equipment, at http://www.northernpizzaequipment.com/bluesteelpans.html, offers the lids from Pizzapanlids. The blue steel pans for which the lids were designed can also be purchased from Northern.

Perhaps the most important information that I got from Damon is on the sizes of the pans used by Jet's. Obviously, as a supplier to Jet's, Pizzapanlids would know the Jet's pan sizes. As it turns out, the sizes I was previously given (by a Jet's store manager), and which I originally reported at Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg118161.html#msg118161, were incorrect. It's possible, I suppose, that different Jet's stores are using different pan sizes, with or without lids, or maybe the dimensions I was given were incorrectly measured, but the correct pan sizes for the Jet's pans are 8" x 10", 10" x 14" and 12" x 17", all as noted at the Northern website. As mentioned at Reply 1 referenced above, I was also told that Jet's uses the blue steel pans sold by Northern (which procures them from P.A. Products, also a Michigan company, at http://www.paprod.com/pans.html).

I have edited Reply 26 to reflect the new pan size information.

Peter


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #78 on: April 29, 2011, 10:57:20 AM »
For more on the subject of the manufacturer of the blue steel pans used by Jet's and others who sell the Detroit square pan pizzas, as well as sources of those pans for our members, see the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13687.msg137011.html#msg137011.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #79 on: May 01, 2011, 08:40:51 AM »
Hog,

I picked up a small square with peperoni only, uncut.
Dimensions:
Crust thickness at edge varied from 1 to 1 1/4 inches.
Width at bottom 6 3/4 inches.
Width at top 6 7/8 inches
Length at bottom 8 3/4 inches.
Length at top 8 7/8 inches.
Crust thickness interior to the edge varied and was as low a 1/2 inch, showing compression of the dough under the weight of the toppings common on the Detroit style.
Weight of the pie, less the peperoni 685 grams, 715 grams with.
The Jets I visited free hands the toppings and over the years I have noted quite a variance.  This pie was heavily topped compared to the average.  There were as many peperoni slices on this small (20) as I have sometimes seen on a large.  The slices are 1 1/2 inch.  This pie was also cheese and sauce heavy.

I believe that your dimensions as given above may be correct. I happened to be at the website of Cloverleaf's, also a well known Detroit-style pizza operator, and noticed that at http://www.cloverleafonline.com/mailorder.php they are selling mail-order pizzas. You will note the statement that their mail-order pizzas are 7" x 9". No doubt they are using an 8" x 10" sloping-sided pan like the others. Remember, that the 8" x 10" dimensions are taken across the top of the pan. So, I think your numbers may be right for an 8" x 10" pan.

I was looking at the Jet's nutrition data for a small square pepperoni pizza and the amount of pepperoni seems quite small. Is Jet's using a very thin sliced pepperoni by any chance? And is there a lot of oiling off of the pepperoni that you can tell? The photos you posted don't seem to show much oiling off. It may also be that Jet's uses less cheese and/or sauce for a small square pepperoni pizza than for a cheese pizza.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 08:47:55 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #80 on: May 01, 2011, 11:51:05 AM »
Quote
I was looking at the Jet's nutrition data for a small square pepperoni pizza and the amount of pepperoni seems quite small. Is Jet's using a very thin sliced pepperoni by any chance? And is there a lot of oiling off of the pepperoni that you can tell?
Peter
IMHO Jet's pepperoni slices would qualify as very thin, and not a lot of oiling off if memory serves.  I will take note on these on the next one.  Glad you figured out the size issue, I thought I measured correctly, and appreciate all the research on the black steel pans.
Hog

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #81 on: May 01, 2011, 12:48:41 PM »
IMHO Jet's pepperoni slices would qualify as very thin, and not a lot of oiling off if memory serves.  I will take note on these on the next one.
Hog,

Thanks for the added information and your continuing interest and participation in this project.

What puzzles me most about the pepperoni used on Jet's pizzas is that when I look at the Jet's nutrition information at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13 and compare the nutrition data for a small square Jet's cheese pizza with a small Jet's square pepperoni pizza, the difference in weights is only 6 x 2 = 12 grams, or 0.42 ounces. Since Jet's charges extra for the pepperoni slices, I would think that they would just make a regular cheese pizza and add the pepperoni slices to it, rather than stiffing the customer by using less cheese. I did a check of three different brands of pepperoni slices in my freezer and one of them, Wilson, has a similar ingredients list for the pepperoni slices (it's almost exact, but for one ingredient). 12 grams worth of pepperoni for that brand comes to 6 slices. That is why I wondered whether possibly Jet's uses very thin pepperoni slices. That would not be unusual, because I know that companies that make pepperoni slices often offer their products in different thicknesses. Twenty slices of the Wilson brand would come to 40 grams, or 1.41 ounces; fifteen slices (based on a Jet's photo) comes to 30 grams, or 1.08 ounces. The numbers aren't much different when using the data for the other two brands of pepperoni in my freezer (Hormel and Armour).

For the record, a while back I did a Google search using the exact string of terms used to describe the Jet's pepperoni in the ingredients listing given in the Northville public school document referenced earlier in this thread. I got several hits showing that the ingredients list is a fairly garden variety one--one that is used by many makers of pizza products.

As an interesting sidenote, it looks like some of the other metro Detroit pizza operators specializing in the square Detroit-style pizza want a bigger piece of the pie. For example, I read that Cloverleaf, in addition to widening its geographical net by selling its pizzas online, wants to open 30 locations by 2018 (http://www.restaurantnews.com/cloverleaf-pizza-turns-heads-around-the-world/) and Shield's, which sold out a while back to a couple of former owners, changed its legal name to Shield's Franchise Restaurants, L.L.C. and has expansion in mind also (http://www.shieldspizza.com/franchise.html). By contrast, Jet's is now the 17th largest pizza operation in the country, with over 200 locations (11 are company owned) and annual sales of around $163,000,000. Buddy's has nine locations. Hmmm. The plot thickens.

Peter

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #82 on: May 01, 2011, 02:25:30 PM »
Peter
Wow, your research and info is beyond complete as usual.  The Cloverleaf expansion, per the links found following your link, seems to involve only the carry out locations, not the original.  I once inquired at a carry out what the relationship was to the original but the answer was vague and left me with the impression it was like a semi franchise.  The two carry outs are independently owned, and by the same guys, but that was about all I could confirm.  Maybe these guys will spread the Detroit style around the world.  I wish them luck as anything positive about Detroit is always welcome and they do put out a consistent and tasty pie, at least the times I tried it.  Plus, they are still a bit old school with good ole deck ovens.
Shield's I am not so sure about.  They opened a location near my house, I tried it and was most disappointed, then they went out of business there.  I'm pretty sure Shield's once had more locations than today so who knows what is up with them.
Re Jet's pepperoni, my best guess here is simply that they use very thin slices and not many of them vs using less cheese or sauce to explain the minor increase in weight.  I was surprised at 20 slices on a small, and would also be surprised at 15!  This is just my recollection over the years and may not reflect what they might be doing now, or variances on hand topped pies.  We will see what the next one looks like...
Hog 

Offline norma427

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #83 on: August 07, 2011, 08:28:43 AM »
Peter,

I wanted to ask you a few questions about making a Jetís square pizza at market on Tuesday.  Since I purchased a 12Ē square blackbuster steel pan,  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10141.msg145736.html#msg145736  I have been wanting to try it out a Jetís pizza. My square pan isnít a sloping pan. I think I have read though the Jetís thread and any links, but wonder about using oil in the formula.  I read in your post at Reply 26 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg118161.html#msg118161
 that Jetís does use oil in the formula.  In the post by jets147  at Reply 65 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg134105.html#msg134105
 he says no oil is used in the dough for a Jetís pizza.  You then replied at post 68 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg134510.html#msg134510
You concluded no oil was used in Jetís dough, and the oil comes from oiling the pan. I didnít see any formula you posted with what TF you thought Jetís uses.  Do you think I should try the same formula I tried at Reply 60 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg132975.html#msg132975
and omit the oil, and keep the same TF?  I am able to purchase shredded Grande cheese by the pound, from a local pizza operator.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #84 on: August 07, 2011, 10:09:00 AM »
Norma,

It's been a while since I last worked on this project, so my mind is a bit fuzzy on the details.

With respect to the oil, I think the explanation is that there is no oil in the dough but that there is oil in the baked crust because of the oil that is put in the pan and is absorbed by the crust. I believe that is why oil was listed in the ingredients list that I found through my searches.

I am not sure how the dough formulation at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg132975.html#msg132975 will work but I do not believe that it is the Jet's dough formulation as best I understand it from my research to date. For example, I believe the thickness factor is too low. Also, the Jet's thickness factor would be with respect to a sloping-sided pan of a specific material and design.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 10:43:07 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #85 on: August 07, 2011, 11:28:58 AM »
Norma,

It's been a while since I last worked on this project, so my mind is a bit fuzzy on the details.

With respect to the oil, I think the explanation is that there is no oil in the dough but that there is oil in the baked crust because of the oil that is put in the pan and is absorbed by the crust. I believe that is why oil was listed in the ingredients list that I found through my searches.

I am not sure how the dough formulation at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg132975.html#msg132975 will work but I do not believe that it is the Jet's dough formulation as best I understand it from my research to date. For example, I believe the thickness factor is too low. Also, the Jet's thickness factor would be with respect to a sloping-sided pan of a specific material and design.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for your explanations.  Do you have a TF in mind for me to try, to get closer to a Jetís pizza, and also what TF to use since I donít have a sloping pan? Also I read the flour isnít bromated in Jetís dough.  Do you also have a flour in mind for me to experiment with?

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #86 on: August 07, 2011, 12:43:18 PM »
Do you have a TF in mind for me to try, to get closer to a Jetís pizza, and also what TF to use since I donít have a sloping pan? Also I read the flour isnít bromated in Jetís dough.  Do you also have a flour in mind for me to experiment with?

Norma,

I don't yet have enough information to figure out the actual thickness factor. I was also waiting for more weight information, etc., for a finished Jet's pan pizza to see if there are any clues on that score. When I have a chance, I will look at the Jet's nutrition information to see if it is of any help in coming up with a good thickness factor to use. For now, you might try a value greater than 0.12, which I believe is what Hog uses for his Buddy's clone.

With respect to the flour to try, I think I would go with an unbromated flour with a protein content of around 12.5-13%. That is just a guess since Jet's uses a flour that is prepared just for them. Unfortunately, there is no easy way to determine what kind of flour is used or its protein content from just the nutrition information. A typical pizza has multiple sources of protein. I have read conflicting information on whether the Jet's flour is bleached or not. I don't think it will really matter whether the flour is bleached or not.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #87 on: August 07, 2011, 05:50:32 PM »
Norma,

I don't yet have enough information to figure out the actual thickness factor. I was also waiting for more weight information, etc., for a finished Jet's pan pizza to see if there are any clues on that score. When I have a chance, I will look at the Jet's nutrition information to see if it is of any help in coming up with a good thickness factor to use. For now, you might try a value greater than 0.12, which I believe is what Hog uses for his Buddy's clone.

With respect to the flour to try, I think I would go with an unbromated flour with a protein content of around 12.5-13%. That is just a guess since Jet's uses a flour that is prepared just for them. Unfortunately, there is no easy way to determine what kind of flour is used or its protein content from just the nutrition information. A typical pizza has multiple sources of protein. I have read conflicting information on whether the Jet's flour is bleached or not. I don't think it will really matter whether the flour is bleached or not.

Peter


Peter,

I can understand you donít have enough information to figure out the actual TF.  Thanks for the advise for the protein of the flour to try.  I will give the Jetís pizza another try when I find time.  You donít have to look up the nutrition information.

Norma
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #88 on: August 10, 2011, 10:41:06 PM »
Sorry if this has already been discussed.  The Jet's Pizza AT&T commercials...








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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #89 on: August 11, 2011, 09:43:36 AM »
Gene,

Thank you for posting the links to the videos. One of the interesting observations is that certain of the ingredients appear to be weighed, including what appears to be diced cheese, as shown at 0:28 in the first video.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #90 on: August 24, 2011, 07:51:56 PM »
I tried another experimental Jetís pizza.  I modified the last formula I posted at Reply 60 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8247.msg132975.html#msg132975
by increasing the TF to 0.15 and decreasing the salt amount to 1.75%., since 1.75% is usually the normal amount of salt I use in my pizza doughs. I also omitted the corn oil. The rest of the formula was kept the same.  I used Superlative flour as the flour.

I mixed the dough in my Kitchen Aid mixer, and balled and cold fermented for a little over a day.  The  dough ball was left to warm-up for about an hour.  The dough ball then was pressed some on my marble slab, then open a little to fit in my 12Ēx12Ē square steel pan.  I then put aluminum foil over the steel pan, and left the dough proof for about a hour.  The pan was oiled with 1 tablespoon and 1 teaspoon of corn oil.  I used a paper towel to spread the corn oil on the pan, so there was some of the corn oil was on the paper towel.  

Steve and I weighed the sauce, Grande cheese, and pepperoni that went on for the dressings.  The sauce weighed 3.4 oz, the Grande cheese weighed 7.5 oz., and the 16 slices of pepperoni, which weighed 1.30 oz.  The pizza was baked at about 492 degrees F, on the deck for about 9 minutes 11 seconds.  

Steve and I never tasted a real Jetís pizza, so we have no idea if this attempt did taste anywhere near a Jetís pizza.  I also donít have a conveyor oven like Jetís uses, so I know my pizza would be different than Jetís that does use a conveyor oven.

Scan of formula I used, and pictures of the process and pizza.  I might try Occident flour as the flour in the same formula next week.

Norma
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 07:53:49 PM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #91 on: August 24, 2011, 08:03:44 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #92 on: August 24, 2011, 08:05:19 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #93 on: August 24, 2011, 08:07:20 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #94 on: August 31, 2011, 10:31:49 AM »
I made another Jetís attempt yesterday at market.  For this attempt, I upped the hydration to 65% based on Peterís post at Reply 93 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14928.msg151230.html#msg151230  saying he guessed the hydration might be about 65% for Jetís dough.  I also changed the flour in the dough I made to the Occident flour.  I wanted to see how a lower protein flour would affect the crumb and if a 65% hydration dough could be made without becoming sticky with the Occident flour.  I mixed the dough in my Kitchen Aid mixer about the same way that is show in the Jetís video.  I mixed until the dough had picked up off the sides of the mixer and was almost picking off of the bottom of the mixing bowl. The dough was a little sticky when I took it out of the mixing bowl.  I then put it into a plastic container with the lid on, for about 20 minutes.  I didnít need any addition flour to make the dough less sticky.  The balling of the dough made the dough nice.  I did oil the dough ball. 

The pizza was made about a day and a half after I had mixed the dough.  There are pictures of the top of the dough, first is when I balled the dough, and a bottom picture of the dough after it was taken out of the container at market.  The bottom of the dough ball looked sticky, but I lightly floured it and it was fine.  The dough was really soft.  I just gently pushed the dough in the steel pan that had been oiled with 1 tablespoon and 1 teaspoon of corn oil.  The dough was then covered and left to proof at room temperature for about an hour.

I only used sauce and cheese to dress this pizza, because I was running out of pepperoni.  The Jetís attempt did turn out very good, but the bottom crust didnít brown as I would have liked it to.  The crumb was very moist and soft and really had a good flavor.  Steve, Randy, Jeff, Mark, Lorie and I all enjoyed the Jetís attempt.  There werenít any leftover slices for customers to taste.  I know this isnít like a real Jetís pizza, or donít think so, because the bottom crust isnít crispy enough, but found it quite different than other pizzas I have made.  I donít know if the Occident flour and the higher hydration had anything to do with that or not, but I am finding out I do like Occident flour for making pizzas.

Steve and I had an interesting visitor yesterday at market, when we were getting ready to make this pizzas and others.  He was from San Antonio, Texas and has traveled all over the world eating pizzas.  He talked about all the different kinds of pizzas he has eaten.  He is also a member of the Philharmonic Orchestra and plays bass.  He has played with many different famous people.  He showed Steve and me pictures on his cell phone.  Since Steve also plays different instruments and is part Sicilian, he really got to liking Steve and even called some of his friends on his cell phone and got Steve to talk to them.  He sure was an interesting character, but he also was sure a talker.  We found out many interesting things about San Antonio, Texas from our visitor, and a lot of other information.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #95 on: August 31, 2011, 10:36:09 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #96 on: August 31, 2011, 10:37:41 AM »
Norma
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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #97 on: August 31, 2011, 10:39:19 AM »
Norma
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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #98 on: August 31, 2011, 10:39:54 AM »
Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #99 on: August 31, 2011, 12:57:16 PM »
Norma,

The Occident flour has a protein content of only 12.4% so that might help explain the slight stickiness in the dough at a hydration value of 65%. You might have to go to a higher protein flour to get rid of the stickiness or reduce the hydration of your recent dough formulation by a percent or two. As for the bottom crust, you may have to use considerably more corn oil in the pan to get the crust to "fry". If that doesn't do the trick, then you might consider getting the same type of pan that Jet's uses, along with a companion lid.

Peter