Author Topic: Jets pizza  (Read 120990 times)

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #175 on: October 01, 2012, 04:25:27 PM »
I just found out I have a new Jets Pizza now in my area.....any suggestions? I see that you can order a pie that each slice is a corner piece....folks must luv them Jetts corners!  ;D
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Offline jetsaddict

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #176 on: October 14, 2012, 08:13:25 PM »
Thanks everyone for their contributions.  Decided to start baking to save money, as a bag of flour is insanely cheaper than buying the stuff you can make with it.  Baked my first loaf of bread yesterday, that's as far as my experience goes.  I mainly want to make my own pizza, as buying jets only once a week or so is as much as I have been able to cut back, which is still $15-$20 a week, $80 a month, etc.   

I used the deep dish dough calculator and the values segfault posted.  I used pilsbury bread flour.  Let the dough rise in the bowl for about an hour and a half, and it didn't seem to rise as much as the bread I made yesterday.  The only pan I had was a new 9x5 cheap bread pan.  Oiled the pan with soy bean oil, but the no stick made the oil pool and bead up.  I'm guessing a real pizza pan isn't non stick and would help with this.

I spread the dough in the pan, had a hell of a time getting the dough to go up the edges to form a crust, then let rise for about 3 hours.  After the dough rose again, the edges were easier to form.  I think if the dough was a little drier I could have made the sides a little thicker. The dough seemed too liquidy, but I don't know I've never worked with dough before.   

I used some store bought prego pizza sauce, tasted way too acidic, added sugar to it and it wasn't bad.  Jet's has pretty good pizza sauce, but there's tons of pizza sauce recipes out there so I'm sure I can improve on this, the crust and dough is what makes a Jets pizza for me (and the ranch), the sauce and cheese don't have to be exact. 

I have a very old gas oven, and I preheated it to about 500 F for a half hour with a pizza stone on the second to lowest rack height.  I don't recall anyone else posting how they cooked it, if the used a stone or not, but I figured this would help give the bottom that deep fried crust while not cooking the top as fast. 

I turned the oven down some, somewhere between 450 and 500 F, the oven is not that exact and put the pizza in.  Set a timer for 10 minutes because the pan was so small.  It was done after the ten minutes, faster than I thought, but the cheese was starting to bubble and brown.

It turned out great, not quite Jets, but its a good substitute.  The bottom looked almost the same, much like the other posters, golden brown with the bubbles that weren't' touching the pan. The edges were almost just like Jets but not as thick, although towards the center the pizza was not as crunchy, like others have posted in this thread.  Using a real pizza pan, without the oil beading and pooling up in the nonstick bread pan I used would help I think.   

The dough was not quite as fluffy or thick as jets, maybe could rise longer or use more yeast? Or possibly even more dough?  Jets also seems to have the bottom 1/4" of dough deep fried, where mine was just the 1/8" or less of the bottom, if that makes any sense.  There was no grease or oil left on my pizza, where jets usually has ample.  Maybe use more oil in the pan next time, and a real pan might help.  I don't think using the soybean oil I had would be any different from corn oil.

The top was doughy like Jets, probably helped by the fact I used too much sauce, and a little too much cheese.  I'm sure getting the entire bottom fried and leaving to top doughy would be very hard to accomplish without the conveyor belt ovens they have.  My oven goes up to 550, I was thinking of preheating the pizza stone as high as I can then turning the oven down to cook the pizza, I'm just worried the edges might get burnt.

I made my own ranch with hidden valley buttermilk packet.  I used one cup of buttermilk, half a cup of mayo, and half a cup of sour cream.  Pretty close to jets ranch, but not as tangy and I think I can taste the mayo.  Jets has the best ranch imo.  My fiance used to work at jets like ten years ago and she swears they used hidden valley packets to make their ranch.  But Jet's ranch seems more oily than what I made, do people make ranch with oil?  From what she remembers the pizza making procedure is the same as everyone else described.     

I can't believe how good my pizza turned out, especially using a bread pan and never baking anything before.  Thought I'd share how mine turned out, thanks everyone for trying to replicate Jet's and posting the results. 

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #177 on: October 14, 2012, 08:29:13 PM »
Sounds great addict...your instincts are quite impressive so it is no wonder your first attempt turned out so well. Go with that different pan idea of yours...you will see a BIG improvement.  ;)
Nice job man!  :chef:
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Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #178 on: March 17, 2014, 10:06:40 PM »
i feel like bumping this thread, for the past year(s)+ I've played around with the amount of corn oil i use, bake times, temperatures, and can never quite replicate the crunch that a jet's pizza provides.  short of getting a temp job there, i'm throwing in the towel :P


Offline norma427

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #179 on: March 18, 2014, 06:39:41 AM »
i feel like bumping this thread, for the past year(s)+ I've played around with the amount of corn oil i use, bake times, temperatures, and can never quite replicate the crunch that a jet's pizza provides.  short of getting a temp job there, i'm throwing in the towel :P

segfault,

You might want to look at Peter post at Reply 7 and some of other posts on that thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=23495.msg238665#msg238665 to see if you can get some helpful information about a Jet's pizza.

The Sicilian pizzas I was experimenting with on another thread really weren't a Jet's clone, but I was trying to achieve something like a Jet's pizza.  This is one example of the Sicilian pizza I made at Reply 60 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=18281.msg180372#msg180372 and the next few posts.  If you look through that thread it can be seen what formulations I tried.

Norma

Offline RPCLady

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #180 on: April 07, 2014, 07:24:02 PM »
Greetings!  I know this thread got started quite awhile ago, but I wanted to let you know I enjoyed reading through it!  My computer is broken so I can't watch the video clips here on the forums however I finally took some time and was able to watch the youtube videos on my smart TV today....while searching for videos featuring Jet's I found this gem:

 

Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #181 on: April 12, 2014, 02:46:37 AM »
RPCLady,

A lot of good information there on the process of making a Jet's pizza.  Thanks for posting it!



Offline daveJay

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #182 on: August 13, 2014, 12:24:26 PM »
Hey everyone. I see this thread is a bit old, but I just finished reading the entire chain of messages and am fascinated by it all. Especially the level of dedication by Pete and Norma who haven't even ever had a Jet's pizza before! Thanks to you both.

I'd like to try using the formulation by Segfault on reply 161 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg164370#msg164370 because he seemed to get the best result of a crispy crust. I ordered a 10" x 14" pizza pan from Detroit Style Pizza (http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/) and am waiting for that to arrive, but in the meantime I thought I'd simply try cooking it in my Lodge Iron Skillet.

Anyway, I have a question on the process for how you're supposed to make the dough with the results on those formulations. Ahamric posted the steps of what he did in reply 171 : http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg170815#msg170815

After he mixed the dry ingredients with the water and had a lump of dough, he said he oiled it and sealed it in a container for 5 hours. This seems to perhaps be what Norma does every time she makes an attempt also? What is this step for? Is it simply to let the dough rise?

Then he moved it to the pizza pan which was coated with the corn oil. Stretched it out to fit the pan and covered it for an hour and 15 minutes. I assume this also is to let the dough rise?

I'm new to this whole cooking with yeast thing, so I'm just wondering if I can get some clarification on what the process should be? It seems like I could just roll out the dough immediately after I make it and let it rise in the pan. Or let it rise in the mixer bowl first, and then roll it out and put it in the pan and cook it. Is it necessary to let it rise twice?

Also, I bought some Instant Dry Yeast. Does the rising process change if I use Active dry yeast in my formulation instead?

Sorry for the noob post. Once I figure out what I'm supposed to do, I'm eager to post some pictures of my attempt!


Offline robear00

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #183 on: April 29, 2015, 12:04:57 PM »
Ok, I did a search of topics and it doesn't seem like anyone is talking about this recipe.  If so, my apologies for missing it. 

Anyway, what I am trying to do is kind of combine the best of both worlds.  If anyone has tried it in the Midwest, there is a place called Casey's General Store that makes a pretty good breakfast pizza.  I've been able to make my own version of it and I have friends from South Dakota that say it is VERY close.  What I what to do is turn it into a Detroit deep dish and put the ingredients on a Jets-style dough.  I plan on trying a couple of the recipes here, but was wondered about something:

Considering all of the talk that has been in this topic about weights and measures, has anybody just walked into a Jets and just asked to buy a ball of dough?  The location by my house lets me do this and charges $3.50/ea. (cashiers, especially new ones, will give me a weird look, but the managers take care of it well), but I've never done the deep dish style as I've never had a pan for it (ordering one soon). 

At any rate, I'm still very new into making dough as mine is typically store bought, so I'm not sure if there would be any useful information in this buying the dough.  I would think, if anything, to test the pan with their dough to figure out the crunch factor.

Offline daveJay

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #184 on: April 29, 2015, 01:54:57 PM »
I like that idea! My dough is never as crunchy as jets, so that would be a good way to see if it's my recipe or my form of cooking it.

What's the recipe for your breakfast pizza you like out of curiosity?

Offline robear00

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #185 on: April 29, 2015, 02:06:10 PM »
I do a variation on Casey's General Store's recipe.  Looking through the board, today was the first I've heard of thinning Velveeta, so I'm going to try that.  Sausage and eggs are the same, but I use a simple candied bacon.  I coat strips in dark brown sugar and pepper, then bake them.  Let them rest for a bit, then cut into bits.

Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #186 on: January 11, 2016, 12:33:49 AM »
Hello again!

So it's been some time since I last posted.

I have been using the dough formulation i previously posted for a year and some change now, but recently got motivated to dial it in.  I've been eating more jets lately and realized the dough i was making was much too thick, and not crunchy enough.

I re-read the entire forum and decided to take advise and reduce the TF.  I also decided to use a high gluten flour. 

I ordered http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/king-arthur-sir-lancelot-unbleached-hi-gluten-flour-3-lb

I was excited to try it out.  While preparing the ingredients for the dough, i accidentally used 10g sugar [see attached dough calc toll] , but my results were outstanding, i am very happy with the results.

Here was my process :

Weigh all ingredients in separate containers.

Add water to mixer bowl
Add all ingredients minus flour
Add Flour

Mix on "Low" for 2 minutes to incorporate
Mix on "4" (med-low) for 8 minutes

Add maybe 3Tbs corn oil to blue steel pan
form dough to pan

Proof in oven (@100deg) for 2 hour with damp dish rag covering
remove from oven, let stand for 4 hours with damp dish rag covering

Preheat oven to 550 deg
Prepare pizza with sauce
Add about 6 to 7 oz cheese
toppings to choice

cook for 7-8 min, middle rack
cover with foil and cook additional 3 min

remove, let rest, then transfer to metal rack.  let cool, and then transfer to cutting board.  Cut and enjoy  :pizza:

My results were fantastic, the dough had the "crunch" i was after, best attempt to date! :)  Next attempt i'll try and record the measurements for how much corn oil and sauce i'm adding.





Offline hotsawce

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #187 on: January 13, 2016, 07:00:19 PM »
Great looking pie! Your post is timely, as your recipe is exactly the direction I was moving for my Detroit style. I wanted to decrease the hydration out of the 70s (I was getting a similar rise with a lower hydration) and increase my thickness factor. Now I just need to dial in my bake to get that "crunch" as well. I use Lloyd pans, which bake a little bit darker. For me, I think 500 to 525 is going to give me a nice golden brown
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 07:03:01 PM by hotsawce »

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #188 on: January 18, 2016, 12:53:21 PM »
tried a 0.15 TF pie and, while it looked nice the way the cheese set up on the edge thought it was a little doughy

Offline HBolte

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #189 on: January 18, 2016, 01:30:27 PM »
My last few were .117 TF or 265g for 8X10, 530g for 10X14. Seems to be my favorite so far.
Hans

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #190 on: January 18, 2016, 02:09:22 PM »
Yes, my favorite has been between Grandma thickness factor and sicilian, maybe around 0.125

My last few were .117 TF or 265g for 8X10, 530g for 10X14. Seems to be my favorite so far.

Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #191 on: January 24, 2016, 11:52:23 PM »
Thanks, i'll adjust the TF for my next attempt!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #192 on: January 26, 2016, 07:45:43 PM »
I spent a good part of yesterday and today revisiting this thread. Much of the time was spent fixing as many broken links as I could, including finding replacement versions of several links at the Wayback Machine. Many of the changes are reflected in Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161 and also in the many EDITS to that post. That is the post that I have been using to contain pretty much everything I know about the Jet's pizzas. There are still some links that are no longer operative and for which I could not find replacements or substitutes. Fortunately, for the most part they were incidental and not at the heart of the matter at hand.

This thread was a real challenge for many reasons. For example, when I first started my investigations into the Jet's pizza, I was given incorrect pan size information by an employee of a Jet's store that I called seeking the pan sizes. So I was off to a rocky start right at the outset. It took quite a while before the owner of a now-defunct company that sold lids to Jet's gave me the pan sizes that Jet's was actually using. Then there was a major issue surrounding the pans themselves. The company in West Virginia that sold blue steel pans to just about all of the Detroit area operators that made square pan pizzas ceased the manufacture of the pans. So, companies like P.A. Products and Northern Pizza Supply no longer had the pans, although they scrambled to find substitutes. Most of those pans were no longer of blue steel. Out of desperation, Jet's sought out a manufacturer to make new pans for them. Eventually, companies like Lloyd Pans, the owner of Pizzatools.com, came out with its own Detroit style pans with the PSTK coating. But there are still a few companies out there with blue steel or equivalent pans but one should be sure that they are of the right sizes.

Then there was the issue of recipes and Jet's clone pizzas made by our members not meeting the Jet's Nutrition information. I spent a lot of time on this issue. One of the major issues was the amount of mozzarella cheese Jet's used on its small square cheese pizzas with six slices. I selected that pizza for analysis because it is the simplest square pizza that Jet's makes. Through my own research and with the help of other members, I had previously determined that the source of the Jet's mozzarella cheese was Grande. So I knew all of the nutrients for that cheese and their amounts. One of our members who tried to help me by buying some Jet's small square pizzas for us to analyze was told by a Jet's employee that they used five ounces of mozzarella cheese for the small square pizza; another employee at a later date said six ounces. But the amount of Cholesterol for either five or six ounces of Grande mozzarella cheese was far less than called for in the Jet's Nutrition information. I and the other member tried to resolve this matter with Jet's itself, through emails and telephone calls, but got no satisfaction or resolution. I decided then that I could not continue with my attempts to reverse engineer and clone the Jet's pizzas. The numbers just didn't jibe.

Now I know what the problem was. I believe that the Jet's Nutrition information was faulty. And it was purely out of curiosity that I recently decided to take a look at the current Jet's Nutrition information. And, lo and behold, they changed (lowered) the Cholesterol numbers. Now, the Cholesterol numbers support the use of about six ounces of the Grande mozzarella cheese. There are still some issues relating to the weights of the small square pizzas that Jet's sells, so I am still not confident of some of the Jet's numbers.

I also now believe that I have identified the source of the flour that Jet's uses for its square pizzas. I am pretty confident that it is Bay State Milling. I say this because that company was mentioned in the Allergens section of the Jet's website, as I noted in EDIT 10 of Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161. As I understand it, the flours that Jet's uses are custom tailored to Jet's requirements so they may not be available at the retail level or even from major commercial flour millers and marketers. Were I to hazard a guess, I would say that based on the Jet's Nutrition information, and especially the Dietary Fiber and Carbohydrate numbers, that the flour that Jet's is using is likely a bread flour. Based on what I found through my work in this thread, it would be unbleached (or maybe bleached) and unbromated but malted and enriched. I doubt that a high gluten flour is used for the Jet's square pizzas. But it is quite possible that a high gluten flour is used for its round NY style pizzas.

What may come as a big surprise to our members is that the dough that Jet's uses to make its square pizzas has very little sugar and very little salt. This is based on inputs by a former Jet's employee who posted on the forum but also supported by the Jet's Nutrition information. As somewhat a confirmation of the low salt level, see the Jet's report at Reply 11 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=23495.msg248636#msg248636. I also believe that the proper thickness factor to use is 0.15. Jet's previously used ADY with warm water and I assume that has not changed. There is also no oil in the dough although there is oil placed in the pans that gets absorbed into the finished crust. That is reflected in the Jet's Nutrition information. The oil itself is corn oil.

As for the sauce, we already know that Stanislaus supplies the basic tomatoes for making the Jet's pizza sauce, to which Jet's adds water and a spice packet. I would say that just about any of the Stanislaus Full Red or similar canned tomatoes that are crushed, that is, without filets or dice or solid tomato pieces, will work. I think that some of the Stanislaus Saporito products will also work. And because Jet's adds water to the tomatoes, it is quite possible that the tomatoes are concentrated.

I am still studying the Jet's Nutrition information but I hope soon to post a Jet's clone dough formulation for our members to consider. However, I should hasten to point out that the clone dough formulation itself is only a part of the story. The type of pans now used by Jet's and the use of a conveyor oven with its particular operating temperatures and bake times, especially for the three different size pans Jet's uses for its square pizzas, will also dictate the nature of the final results. So, some experimentation will most likely be required.

If there are any matters that I missed, please feel free to bring them to my attention.

Peter



Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #193 on: January 27, 2016, 02:15:36 PM »
After my last post, I thought that it might be useful to get a firmer grip on the pan sizes used by Jet's, or at least the sizes they used at the time this thread was started.

So, for this leg of my journey, I decided to check the websites of the two companies, Northern Pizza Equipment (Northern) and P.A. Products, both of whom major suppliers of blue steel pans to the Detroit-area square pizza trade up to the time that the manufacturer of those pans closed shop, and also the website of the later entry, Lloyd Pans, with its PSTK Detroit style pans. As previously mentioned, and as discussed in some detail earlier in this thread, I was told by the former supplier of lids to Jet's that the Jet's pan sizes were 8" x 10", 10" x 14", and 12" x 17". When I saw that Northern did not have an 8" x 10" pan, but rather only an 8" x 8" pan in the smaller size, and that the P.A. Products website showed all three sizes of pans, all of which were blue steel pans, I decided to call both companies. At Northern (see http://www.northernpizzaequipment.com/rectangular-pans-lids.html), the 8" x 8" pan size was confirmed, even though the photo appears to show a rectangular pan (most likely a stock photo was used), but I was told that they could get me an 8" x 10" pan if I wanted that size. At P.A. Products, I was told that they no longer sold the blue steel pans even though they are still shown in their online catalog.

At both Northern and P.A. Products, I asked the sales reps why the blue steel pans were discontinued. They mentioned the demise of the original source in West Virginia that closed shop but they also mentioned that there were potentially toxicity issues with the blue steel pans (e.g., rusting problems) and also that crud could accumulate in the corners of the pans and pose health concerns. On this latter point, when I went to the Lloyd Pans website, at http://www.lloydpans.com/standard-pans/pizza-tools/rectangular-pans-and-disks/detroit-style-deep-dish#gsc.tab=0, I saw that there were so-called Alternate Detroit Style Pizza Pans with rounded interior corners. Whether that is why Lloyd Pans offers that particular pan version I cannot say. But, most notably, of the three companies, only Lloyd Pans (and its Pizzatools.com affiliate) offers the three pan sizes discussed above. And, no other sizes, whether it is 8" x 8" or 10" x 10", or whatever. However, I should mention that Lloyd sells square Sicilian style pans although I have not done comparison of those pans with their Detroit style pans. As is well known, the Lloyd Detroit style pans are sold by the Detroit Style Pizza Company.

Not completely satisfied by the above analysis, I decided to call several Jet's stores in the Dallas Metroplex and to ask questions that were calculated to tell me the sizes of the pans they are using and maybe even some dough ball weights. Most of the employees I spoke with seemed to be young males. I told them that I was considering buying pizzas from them but that I could not tell the sizes of their pizzas because the Jet's home website did not give sizes for their pizzas. Not surprisingly, they did not have a lot of answers to my questions. In one case, the employee I spoke with told me that the small pan was 8" x 10", but in a couple other instances, I was told the small pan was 10" x 10". When I commented that the photos of the "square" pizzas that I saw on the Internet showed one side longer than the other, I was told that that was so, but no effort was made to correct the apparent misstatements. Possibly, when pizzas are sold as "square" pizzas, to them that must mean that the pans are square. But, more importantly, in two cases, when I probed about the weights of their "square" pizzas, I was told that the dough ball weight for the small pizza (irrespective of the pan size I was told) was 12 ounces, and 21 ounces for the large square (there is no medium size). In one case, there was also an x-large pizza but it appears that there are also ways of combining the other sizes to offer a so-called "party" size. The one place where there was little confusion was in the number of pieces in each size pizza: 6 pieces for the small, 10 pieces for the large, and 15 pieces for the x-large. This was important information because it squares (no pun intended) with the Nutrition information given at the Jet's official website.

What is most significant from the above exercise is the dough ball weights that were mentioned. Earlier in this thread, a former employee of Jet's stated that the three dough ball weights used by Jet's were 12 ounces, 21 ounces and 31 ounces. He did not mention the corresponding pan sizes but, if I am correct, they are the three pan sizes mentioned above (i.e., 8" x 10", 10" x 14" and 12" x 17"). And if one calculates the thickness factors for those three cases, you get 0.15 in each case. And because of the linearity and direct proportionality of the calculations, with no squaring of radii as is the case for round pizzas, that means that the 0.15 thickness factor can be used for any size of rectangular or square pan used to make a Jet's clone. However, the results may be a bit different if the pans are straight-sided as opposed to sloping-sided.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #194 on: January 29, 2016, 02:40:41 PM »
Doing some simple calculations and using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded-calculator.html, I have set forth below a proposed dough formulation for use in connection with an 8" x 10" sloping-sided pan. The amount of dough is 12 ounces. Several comments will follow:

Flour (100%):
Water (65.2%):
ADY (0.80%):
Salt (1.18125%):
Sugar (0.84375%):
Total (168.025%):
202.47 g  |  7.14 oz | 0.45 lbs
132.01 g  |  4.66 oz | 0.29 lbs
1.62 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.43 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
2.39 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.43 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
1.71 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.43 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
340.2 g | 12 oz | 0.75 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Dough (12 ounces) is for a sloping-sided 8" x 10" pan; nominal thickness factor = 0.15 [12/(8 x 10)]; no bowl residue compensation but a value of 1.5% is suggested; while there is no oil in the dough, there is corn oil added to the pan and the dough ball might be coated with corn oil.

I will begin my comments by saying that I came up with the above dough formulation by doing volume-to-weight conversions for the water, salt, yeast, (ADY), and sugar ingredients that were set forth earlier in this thread by member jets147 who indicated at the time that he was a Jet's employee familiar with the way that the dough was made and managed at Jet's. Once I came up with the baker's percent version of the dough formulation, I tested that formulation against the Jet's nutrition information as given at its website at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13. For this test, I decided to use a small Jet's square cheese pizza. I selected a cheese pizza because it is the most basic and simplest pizza that Jet's makes, inasmuch as it comprises only dough, cheese and pizza sauce. But this meant that I had to make certain assumptions as to the weights of the cheese and pizza sauce that would be used with the dough to make a pizza.

In my case, I used six ounces of low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese from Grande and about four ounces of pizza sauce made from a watered down tomato base from Stanislaus, for a total unbaked pizza weight of 22 ounces. I selected Grande and Stanislaus since they are ones that Jet's used when I researched the matter some years ago. More recently, I saw reference to Bay State Milling (BSM) in the allergens section of the Jet's website that leads me to believe that BSM is the supplier to Jet's of the flours used to make its pizzas. BSM has many flours in its flour portfolio (see the Bay State Milling entry at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40212.0) but, unfortunately, it does not publish the specs for its flours. Maybe having those specs might have helped but from my prior research I was given to understand that the flours used by Jet's are milled just for them and packaged exclusively for them. So, for purposes of my analysis of the Jet's nutrition information, I used a standard bread flour that seemed to be close to what Jet's may be using. Like Jet's flour, it was bleached, malted, unbromated, and enriched.

But after going through the analysis, and while I am not completely giving up on a bread flour with the right numbers, I now tend to think that Jet's may be using a weaker flour, one that may be closer to an all-purpose flour, but one that may be a stronger (e.g., higher ash content) than a typical all purpose flour. Otherwise, the flour may not work well with a hydration of around 65%. What led me to this alternative possibility is the high Carbohydrates number and the low Dietary Fiber number in the Jet's nutrition information. There are also Carbohydrates in the cheese (a small amount--about a gram per ounce) and in the pizza sauce, and there is Dietary Fiber in the tomatoes, but even when I took these numbers into account, I had a hard time achieving the Carbohydrate and Dietary Fiber numbers in Jet's latest nutrition information. I only got closer when I used the nutrition numbers for a weaker flour with a higher Carbohydrate number and a lower Dietary Fiber number and a tomato product with a high Carbohydrate number and a low Dietary Fiber number. The above said, it is important to keep in mind that Jet's, or any other pizza chain for that matter, is not required by the FDA to produce nutrition numbers for its pizzas. Most do it because of the increasing demand of consumers to know what it is that they are eating. But that doesn't mean the that nutrition information is always accurate or correct. As I previously noted, Jet's significantly lowered the Cholesterol number in its recent nutrition information from its prior value. Whether they did that because I raised the issue with Jet's I cannot say.

But one thing that seemed to be supported by my analysis is the amounts of salt and sugar in the Jet's dough. Both of the numbers for the salt and sugar in the above dough formulation appear credible, and I'd like to think their values are intentional since there are good reasons or logical explanations for the small amounts of salt and sugar as used in the formulation, especially when taken into account with the use of ADY, warm water, and the fermentation protocol. I can go into the reasons for those who may be interested. But I should also add that the amount of ADY is also credible in the context of the dough life cycle used at Jet's, where the dough made each morning is for the dinner crowd that day and held in the cooler for the next day's lunch, with any leftover dough at that point being discarded (a least according to Jet's rules).

With respect to the hydration calculation, I used a conversion of one cup of water equals 8.15 ounces by weight. That is a standard conversion factor I use even though technically a cup of water weighs 8.345 ounces. Most people don't measure out water carefully or correctly enough to get that weight. To confirm my conversion number, I did several weighings of two quarts of water on my kitchen scale and then calculated the water on a cup basis. It was at about 8.15 ounces.

But the amount of oil is a bit trickier. As previously noted, there is no oil (corn oil) used in the Jet's dough, but there is corn oil in the pan. But once I took into account all of the sources of fats, the only way that I could achieve the high Total Fats number in the Jet's nutrition information was to assume that there was about eight teaspoons of corn oil used in the pan. That seems high to me but I recall that Pizza Hut used to use considerably more oil in its pans than my number suggested, even when equalizing the pan areas.

How the dough made using the above formulation is made and managed is important if one is trying to clone a Jet's pizza. Member jets147 provided some guidance on these matters, as follows:

after put into the pans, depending on the temp of store it takes 30 mins to 1 hour for the dough top rise. (make sure ur pans have corn oil on them)after that it u must "press the dough out" this processes is basically makeing the dough fit to the pan corner to corner. once pressed out it takes about 45 mins for it rise again. now, it can be more then 45 mins if u want. or less. more time u wait the fluffier the dough will be.

The above instructions are in line with what I read in articles about Jet's on the subject. However, I recently saw a video on the same matter, as noted below. But what is important is that the ADY be added dry to the mixer bowl and that the water added to the bowl be warm. It has to be warm enough to rehydrate the ADY. Most yeast producers suggest a water temperature of around 120-130 degrees F when rehydrating ADY added to the flour. Of course, using all warm water will usually mean a finished dough temperature that is likely to be close to 90 degrees F. But that high finished dough temperature is critical to the method of preparing the Jet's dough. As part of the dough making process, I suggest that members also view, or view again, the video that was referenced in Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161. For convenience, I have included that video in this post also. Note, also the use of the Somerset dough roller in the first video where it looks like the sheeted skins are put into dark pans. I did not see the use of lids such as described in Reply 77 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg137183#msg137183, but such use might be helpful for the reasons noted in Reply 77.

Finally, I added another Jet's video of August 2014 to show the flour bags, pizza sauce cans and boxes, etc.







Peter



Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #195 on: January 30, 2016, 03:53:31 PM »
This post is about the Jet's Jet Fuel pizza sauce.

Some while ago, at Reply 159 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg164047#msg164047, member segfault indicated that he was interested in being able to replicate the Jet's Jet Fuel pizza sauce. Unfortunately, that will be very difficult to do inasmuch as Jet's uses a pizza sauce seasoning prepared for them by Castella Imports (http://www.castella.com/) and whose ingredients are not disclosed anywhere by Castella. What we do know, based on searching the document at https://web.archive.org/web/20090730144935/http://www.thebulkgourmet.com/catalogs/food_kitchen_laundry.pdf, is that the pouch of pizza sauce seasoning used by Jet's weighs 26.7 ounces. That would not have been of much help until I stumbled across a YouTube video that showed how Jet's makes its pizza sauce. That is the first video shown below. As will be seen from that video, eight cans of Jet Fuel pizza sauce are mixed in a mixer along with 3 1/2 cans of water, and one pouch of the Castella seasoning. You will note the name and logo of Jet's on the pouch. Each of the eight cans of Jet Fuel has a net weight of 6 pounds, 11 ounces. That number is shown at about 2:20 in the second Jet's video shown in my last post, and is important because that is a weight that Stanislaus uses for most of its large cans of crushed or pureed canned tomato products. So, while we may not be able to come up with the seasoning ingredients, we may be able to identify which Stanislaus tomatoes are candidates for the Jet Fuel sauce.

After viewing the first video shown below, I decided to see if there was any information on the Jet's pizza sauce at the Nutritionix website (https://www.nutritionix.com/), which is a website that gives nutritional information on a large number of food products, including pizza. It was there that I saw for the first time that there was nutrition information on the Jet's pizzas, but also for a pizza sauce sold or offered as a side item. I tracked that product back at the Jet's website at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/14. I wasn't sure if that side pizza sauce was the same as what is used on Jet's pizzas, but I came to believe that such was the case when I found another Jet's YouTube that discussed the freshness of the Jet's products, including its pizza sauce, which was shown in little tubs that are to be sold or given to patrons as sides. That video is the second video shown below.

Using all of the above information, I then set about to try to decipher the side pizza sauce to determine its composition from a nutritional standpoint so that I could compare it with the various Stanislaus tomato products disclosed at the Stanislaus website in the form of Nutrition Facts. As part of this exercise, I had to determine the weight of the tomatoes and also the weight of the Castella pizza sauce seasoning as percents of the total weight of the sauce as described in the first video shown below. I also had to normalize all of the serving sizes and caloric values used in the Nutrition Facts for the various Stanislaus tomato products so that I get the most accurate comparisons. It took me two pages of calculations to do this. But when I was done with the calculations, and compared them against the various Stanislaus tomato products in the 6 pound, 11 ounce size cans (all of which describe the tomatoes simply as Vine-ripened fresh tomatoes, salt and naturally-derived citric acid).

I found three Stanislaus tomato products that satisfied my numbers. And, interestingly, the pertinent numbers were virtually identical for all three products. The matches weren't perfect but I somewhat expected that since I was working with Jet's numbers that were all rounded, not the actual, more precise numbers. This is standard practice in the industry but it makes it more difficult to analyze. Also, it is possible that the Castella pizza sauce seasonings may have affected some of the nutrient values even though seasonings often confer little in the way of nutrition. As it turns out, I calculated that the Castella seasonings represented about 2.1% of the total weight of the sauce. By contrast, the tomatoes represented 69.57% of the total weight of the sauce (with the rest being water).

These are the three Stanislaus products that best matched my numbers:

Full Red Concentrated Crushed All Purpose Tomatoes: http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Full-Red-Concentrated-Crushed-Tomatoes.pdf

Full Red Pizza Sauce: http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Full-Red-Pizza-Sauce.pdf

Full Red Extra Heavy Tomato Puree: http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Full-Red-Puree.pdf

At this point, I am inclined to rule out the Stanislaus Saporito products that I earlier thought might be likely candidates for the Jet Fuel sauce.

Here are the two videos:





Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #196 on: February 02, 2016, 11:05:32 AM »
Over the last day or so I have been researching flours to see if I can find one that has a decent amount of protein and that satisfies the Jet's nutrition information for a small square cheese pizza with 12 ounces of dough, six ounces of low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese (Grande) and four ounces of pizza sauce. I concluded that for a flour to satisfy the Jet's nutrition information, it would have to have a high Carbohydrate value and a fairly low Dietary Fiber value.

By way of background, most high gluten flours and bread flours have about 70-73 grams of Carbohydrates per 100 gram serving. That number tends to go down as the protein content goes up. An all purpose flour typically has a Carbohydrate number that is higher than that of a high gluten flour or bread flour. This pattern can be seen in the following King Arthur document that I retrieved from the Wayback Machine after KA stopped making its detailed flour specs public:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060311133549/http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/528fa553a218e1e5566108ef6e4c55d9/miscdocs/Nutritional%20Analysis.pdf

As can also be seen from the above document, when the protein content of a flour goes up, its Dietary Fiber number also goes up, and when the protein content goes down, its Dietary Fiber number goes down. I might mention that the Sir Gallahad flour in the above document is the same as the all purpose flour sold at retail as the King Arthur all purpose flour (KAAP) and that the Special flour in the above document is the same as the bread flour sold at retail as the King Arthur bread flour (KABF).

In my search of flours that might satisfy the Jet's nutrition information, I came across another KA flour that has an above average Carbohydrate number for an all purpose flour. That flour is the KA Organic Select Artisan all purpose flour, with a protein content of 11.3% and with a Carbohydrate number of 76, which is far greater than most flours that can be used to make pizza dough. The specs for that flour can be seen at http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop-img/labels/1443556132815.pdf and also in a bit more detail in the following KA document that I also salvaged from the Wayback Machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/20061211051235/http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/528fa553a218e1e5566108ef6e4c55d9/miscdocs/KAF%20Organic%20Nutritional%20Analysis.pdf

By my calculations, the KA Organic Select Artisan flour would come quite close to satisfying the Jet's nutrition numbers but for the Dietary Fiber number, which is on the high side. On the plus side, the KA Organic select Artisan flour is often sold at retail (I saw it the other day at my local Wal-Mart) but usually in a small bag (two pounds) with a big price (close to $5).

I was also looking for a high ash value in the flours I studied. High ash numbers tend to allow for higher hydration values. The ash values for the KA flours can be seen in this document that I also salvaged from the Wayback Machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/20051027032834/http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/4a1eb4311b0be08b2b590b39ac3f2c77/download/Primary%20sell%20sheet.pdf

As can be seen from the above document, the range of ash values for the KA flours covered in the document is 0.48-0.52. That is a very typical range.

I was about ready to call it a day when I decided to check my personal files where I store things like copies of flour spec sheets. It was then that I stumbled upon two spec sheets from Pendleton Mills, now renamed Grain Craft. The spec sheets are for the Pendleton Power flour and the Pendleton Mondako flour. As between the two flours, the Power flour struck me as coming closest to the Jet's nutrition information. Here are the relevant numbers for that flour for a standard 100-gram sample:

Protein: 13% +/- 0.3%* (Pendleton/Grain Craft calls this a high gluten flour)
Carbohydrate: 77.9 grams
Dietary Fiber: 2.2 grams
Absorption: 65%
Ash: 0.55% +/- 0.03%
*Note: General Mills would put this protein value in the Mid-High gluten category, just above bread flour, and King Arthur would put it in the Medium High-Gluten category, also just above bread flour.

When I ran those numbers through my nutrition calculations, they came very close to the Jet's nutrition information for the small square cheese pizza. I might add that I had an exchange some time ago with Pendleton with respect to the high absorption value for the Power flour (65%) and I was told that that high absorption value was correct and was a major selling feature. In fact, here is the exact language from the Pendleton technical sales manager:

Per your research, your findings about 65% water absorption are correct and this is one of our selling points with Power Hi Gluten.

A lot of flours especially from Texas, California and Kansas have an average absorption of 60% which leaves us well ahead of the rest.  This means that 65% is the rated absorption level and from an operational stand point this can also be true. Depending on what kind of finished product the customer desires, Power Hi Gluten will perform according to water added at the bowl.


As a reminder, the hydration value in the dough formulation I set forth in Reply 194 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711 is 65.2%.

After I had conducted the nutrition analysis, I did some further searching to see if I could find more on the Power flour. That search led me to a thread at the PMQ Think Tank where I found a post on the relative merits of the Power and Mondako flours as used to make pan pizzas. The thread can be seen at:

http://thinktank.pmq.com/threads/pfm-high-gluten-power-flour-vs-pfm-mondako-question-for-tom.14287/

So, it at least looks like a flour such as the Power flour can be used to make a clone of a Jet's pan pizza while also coming close to the Jet's nutrition information. So, if Bay State Milling is sourcing the flours to Jet's, they may also have access to a flour that has characteristics similar to the Power flour.

As a final comment, I should mention that I calculated the ranges for the Jet's Dietary Fiber and Sugars numbers since they were both rounded to 1 gram (a total of six grams in each case for the entire pizza). This is always an issue for very small numbers, but much less so than for large numbers, such as the Carbohydrate numbers that are reported to the nearest gram under FDA rules and regulations.

Peter



Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #197 on: February 02, 2016, 01:35:50 PM »
I forgot to mention in my last post that the KA Organic Select Artisan all purpose flour is unbleached, unbromated and unenriched.

The Pendleton Power flour is available as either bleached or unbleached and is enriched. It also uses ascorbic acid as a dough conditioner. However, instead of using a cereal source of the amylase enzyme, such as barley malt, it uses a fungal amylase. This was confirmed by Pendleton itself at Reply 58 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=34845.msg348376#msg348376.

I also forgot that I had another discussion about the Power flour's absorption value with a specialist at Pendleton. The details of that discussion are given at Reply 125 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14928.msg151643;topicseen#msg151643.

It still isn't entirely clear whether Jet's is using a bleached or unbleached flour. In Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg118161#msg118161, I cited a catalog at https://web.archive.org/web/20090730144935/http://www.thebulkgourmet.com/catalogs/food_kitchen_laundry.pdf that, at about page 61, states that the flour used by Jet's is unbleached. That catalog was created in August, 2009. However, in the video referenced in Reply 26, which was published in September, 2010, there is a picture of the flour bag for the square pizza and that bag says that the flour is bleached. Also, as noted in EDIT 9 at Reply 26, one Jet's store made pizza for a school district that used a dough that was bleached. In the Jet's Biz Spotlight video, which was published in August, 2014 and was referenced in Reply 194, there is no indication on the flour bag shown in that video of whether the flour is bleached or unbleached. I suppose this is all moot because whether the flour that Jet's uses in bleached or unbleached, that will not affect the nutrition calculations.

Peter

Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #198 on: February 05, 2016, 01:16:41 AM »
pete!  these posts are going to take me months to digest!  :pizza:  but i look forward to it :)

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #199 on: February 06, 2016, 08:39:22 AM »
pete!  these posts are going to take me months to digest!  :pizza:  but i look forward to it :)
segfault,

A good part of what I have written on the Jet's pizza is to create an archive or repository all in one place for all of my research on the subject. That archive is much better than my files with scribblings and notes and papers and folders all over the place. Writing also forces me to more clearly compose and organize my thoughts.

The most important thing for you is the dough formulation I posted and trying to find a flour that will work well in the formulation. You will also want to find a suitable low moisture part skim mozzarella cheese and a suitable tomato product to make the pizza sauce. Then it comes down to using the right pan with the right amount of oil and finding the best way to bake your pizza in a home oven rather than a conveyor oven such as used by Jet's. That is not the easiest thing to do.

I still have a few open issues to work on, one of which I recently made the subject of an email to Jet's. I have learned not to hold my breath about getting a response, so some follow-up may be necessary.

Peter