Author Topic: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour  (Read 6654 times)

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Offline BTB

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Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« on: March 30, 2009, 05:38:06 PM »
I had earlier expressed how I came across some semolina flour at a health food store and started making a number of different pizzas by adding a portion of semolina to the white flour in a particular pizza dough formulation.  Most of those turned out very good.  Well, I similarly saw another kind of flour recently -- rice flour -- and my mind was spinning with the thought of what affect would a little bit of rice flour have in a pizza dough recipe.  I thought maybe the affect could be like that of "rice krispies," adding to the crispiness of a pizza crust.  I tried to find some recipes or postings on it without any success, except for some gluten-free recipes that use all rice flour in place of wheat flour, but wasn't interested in that.  And while I am not quite sure what subject category to put this report in, I decided to put it in the Chicago Style category as I seem to remember a number of Chicago pizzerias in the old days that had a crust similar to this one.
 
So using the Expanded Pizza Dough Calculator on this website, the dough formulation for a 14 " thin crust that I ended up with for a first trial was as follows:
 
Flour Blend * (100%):  242.64 g  |  8.56 oz | 0.53 lbs
Water (47%):  114.04 g  |  4.02 oz | 0.25 lbs
ADY (1.5%):  3.64 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.96 tsp | 0.32 tbsp
Salt (1.5%):  3.64 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.65 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
Olive Oil (6%):  14.56 g | 0.51 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.24 tsp | 1.08 tbsp
Vegetable Oil (12%):  29.12 g | 1.03 oz | 0.06 lbs | 6.47 tsp | 2.16 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):  3.64 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.91 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
Butter/Margarine (6%):  14.56 g | 0.51 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.08 tsp | 1.03 tbsp
Total (175.5%): 425.84 g | 15.02 oz | 0.94 lbs | TF = 0.085
    *Note:  The amount of white flour is 194.1 g./8.56 oz. (80%), the amount of semolina is
                19.41 g./.68 oz. (8%), and the amount of rice flour is 29.1 g/1.02 oz (12%); the total
                amount of oil is 43.68 g. (18%) ; plus 1 Tbsp of melted butter (6%)); the nominal thickness
                factor used in the tool for this formulation is 0.085.
     **The pizza size entered into the tool was 15”; the desired size of the final pizza was 14”; no bowl
               residue compensation is used.
     ***1/2 tsp of Baker's NFDM was added, but is optional (used for color and tender crust affect).
 
I sifted the white flour (GM's Better for Bread flour) into a bowl, withheld about a half a cup of it, added the other dry ingredients (which included 12% rice flour, and 8% semolina), added the "proofed" yeast (proofed in approx. 105 degree F water for about 10 min.) as well as the rest of the water and covered and let the mixture rest for approx. 30 minutes.  The dough at this point was fairly dry.  After 30 minutes, I then added the remaining flour along with the oil and the melted and cooled butter and mixed by hand for about 30  to 45 seconds.  (This a variation of the autolyse procedure that I often follow.)  The resultant dough ball was a little oily, but got less so as I mixed it all together.  I covered the dough ball in the bowl with a piece of plastic wrap and let the dough ball expand a couple of times over the next few hours, punching the ball down on a couple of occasions.


Offline BTB

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2009, 05:48:56 PM »
Approximately 6 to 7 hours after I made the dough I rolled it out a little thinner than the .085 that I originally planned -- est. it to be about .06 to .07 (and had a lot of scrap).  I put the crust skin onto my lightly oiled 14” dark, anodized nonperforated cutter pan (after carefully rolling up the fragile skin onto and then off of the rolling pin), patched up a tear or two with some scrap dough, docked it a lot with a fork, and par baked it in the oven at 475 degrees for around 6 or 7 minutes.  Then I put some sauce on using the new Pastene brand crushed tomatoes that I recently found at a local deli.  This stuff is really, really good and I'll be getting more of the Pastene brand for use in the future.  To the undrained sauce I added some of the additives, like minced garlic, honey, Penzy pizza spices, white pepper, a pinch of crushed fennel seeds (best to crush them first), and a good sprinkling of oregano and dried basil.  Then put on the uncooked sausage -- like all good Chicago pizzerias.   
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 07:52:41 PM by BTB »

Offline BTB

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2009, 06:02:26 PM »
Then added the cheese, which included some parmesan, and cooked the pizza until well done for 12 to 14 minutes on the bottom rack in my oven.  A few minutes before finishing the baking, I added some pepperoni on half of the pizza (added late to prevent burning).

Offline BTB

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2009, 06:07:12 PM »
The pizza with a little rice flour turned out great and exceeded my expectations.  I was looking for a tasty, crispy, and tender pizza and that's what I got.  I'm often hesitant to use the word "best" but can say at the least that this was one of the best thin crust pizzas that I've made to date.  When I started to cut the pizza into strips with the pizza cutting wheel, I could tell instantly when I heard and felt that "crunch" as I cut into the crust that this was going to be very good and I was not disappointed. 

Another thing I loved about this crust was that unlike many others that I have experimented with, the pieces of pizza were not floppy or limp when you picked up a slice, as witnessed by the one photo of my holding a thin strip of pizza.  It was rather firm as I held it and the dough was yet tender and light.  Except for the amount of oil and butter, this crust had a lot of similarities to that of a cracker crust.  While this was the first time that I used rice flour in a dough formulation, I will definitely be experimenting with it again.         --BTB

Offline JConk007

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2009, 09:55:56 PM »
Looks Great BTB and I just Happen to have some Bob red mill Rice flour handy HMM? wonder what I am making next?
thanks for your continued experimentation and sharing
John
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Offline BTB

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2009, 10:22:37 AM »
A week after making the 14" thin crust pizza described above, I made another 14" thin crust again utilizing a small amount of rice flour.  Everything I did was the same, except for the following:

-- The flour blend was 80% white flour (GM's B for B), 10% semolina, and 10% rice flour (as opposed to 8%
    semolina and 12% rice flour in the first trial).
-- Used corn oil instead of vegetable oil.
-- Baked the pizza at 450 degrees F as opposed to 475
-- The pizza skin was rolled out a little thicker in the second trial, est. .08 to .085.

I had company over and they absolutely loved the pizza.  It was crispy, tasty, crunchy, light and tender.  Very good characteristics for a thin crust, almost like a cracker crust.  And again, no floppy or limp pieces as you held them in your fingers.  Since my taste testers did not have any of the pizza from the first trial, it was hard to get a comparison.  They were both great, but I might have a very slight preference for that in the second trial.  A third trial is definitely in the cards.  Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures, but they would not have be dissimilar from those above.                            --BTB

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2009, 12:01:56 PM »
BTB:

GREAT looking pizza, man!  I was transported back to Chicago (or at least, Illinois) just by looking at.  Cutting it into squares really adds that little something extra that makes it authentic. ;)

You continue to be my hero in pizza-making  ;D (the 20% semolina in my deep-dish continues to come out very good every time and gets raves). 

Now, I look forward to giving this one a try.  Thanks for settling my decision on what pizza to make this weekend. :)

-ME
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Offline loowaters

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2009, 03:10:45 PM »
That looks really good, BTB.  I've been rolling my thin out at a TF of about .065 so I like seeing that you ultimately went thinner than the .085 you originally intended.

What brand of mozz did you use on that?  I know you used some parm, too, but that browned really nicely.

Loo
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2009, 06:26:30 PM »
You continue to be my hero in pizza-making  ;D

ME,

He's a hero to many of us on the forum. He does a masterful job at all levels and deserves all the accolades he gets.

Peter

Offline BTB

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2009, 07:05:10 PM »
Hey, thanks guys.  For the pizza pictured above I used Sorrento Mozzarella that went on sale at the local grocery deli (i.e., part skim, low moisture).  For the pizza that I did for the second trial (not pictured) I used both the Sorrento Mozz and shredded up some of the special Scamorza cheese that I recently came across (along with the great Pastene brand ground tomatoes).  The Scamorza was excellent and had a good flavor, but at over $10 a lb, I don't know if I'll be getting that much of it as I'm not that fussy about special brands of cheeses. 
                                                              --BTB                 :pizza:
« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 09:46:57 AM by BTB »


Offline JConk007

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2009, 11:05:24 PM »
BTB,
The local fairway market and shoprite here is $6.99/lb. for the Scamorza so I am diggin it
Thanks for this new one!
JOhn
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2009, 09:42:26 AM »
Hey, thanks guys.  For the pizza pictured above I used Sorrento Mozzarella that went on sale at the local grocery deli (i.e., part skim, low moisture).  --BTB                 :pizza:

Thanks for the tip.  They have Sorrento Mozz at my local Costco in big blocks (big to me, anyway).  I have used it before and like it, too.  I either use the Sorrento, or if I don't want to buy that much or pay that much I'll get 8-16 oz of Best Buy brand at my regular local grocery store.

And you are most welcome. ;D

-ME
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2009, 09:55:59 AM »
I'll get 8-16 oz of Best Buy brand at my regular local grocery store.

ME,

I believe you meant Best Choice. That's the brand that I used until the supermarket changed hands and the product was discontinued.

Peter

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2009, 11:12:57 AM »
ME,

I believe you meant Best Choice. That's the brand that I used until the supermarket changed hands and the product was discontinued.

Peter

YES!  Best Choice!  Thanks, Peter.  Of all the things I have lost, it's my mind I miss the most. ;)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 05:18:03 PM by Mad_Ernie »
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Offline mrmojo1

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2009, 09:35:22 PM »
wow!!!  awesome BTB!  you are an inspiration!!!  the way you cut into long retangular pieces reminds me of dimmaggios in michigan, where all the chicago vacationers go! its awesome!  your pizza and crust looked similar to theirs.  i have been trying to get that non-floppiness in my crust!! Can i ask you, do you prefer the part skim over whole milk. wondering your opinion on that!!  thanks in advance!

-=terry

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2009, 10:27:51 PM »
BTB,
That crust looks and sounds great. As you know I also am a big fan of the thin/cracker crust and yours, at least by the pics looks real nice. Now the dilemma, ribs or pizza this weekend.....or BOTH! How do think this crust would go with a 24 hour room temp proof as we do with the cracker crusts?
Jon
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Offline BTB

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2009, 08:48:19 AM »
Mrmojo, no the crust is much different from DiMaggio's, which is generally thicker and more chewier, altho sometimes when I talk them into to making an extra thin one and cooked well done, it comes out crispier there at their restaurant on Blue Star Hwy near Lake Michigan.   I dine there at least 3 or 4 a times a year, so I'm pretty familiar with their pizzas.  While they sometimes cut their pizzas into strips and often don't, my model for doing so was a famous pizzeria on Archer Ave. in Chicago, Chesdan's, that was Home Run Inn's chief neighborhood rival for over 50 years before they closed and left Chicago a few years ago.  The Chesdan's family still have 2 locations in far away southwest suburban Chicago locations. 

If done right, this crust will eliminate the floppiness and limpness so common to many other recipes.  Just par bake the docked skin 6 or 7 minutes (or longer depending on one's oven and temperature) till the dough skin just starts to turn a little brown.  And when you do that, its an amazing transformation from a soft, somewhat delicate dough skin to one that is firm and crispy.  I'm generally very satisfied with part skim over whole milk cheese, altho like everything, I have my Almond Joy moments (i.e., "sometimes you feel like a nut, . . . sometimes you don't").  And when I do I often blend or just use some whole milk and even some fresh mozz fits the bill at times (altho sparingly as it can cause a lot of wateriness on the pizza).

Jackitup, the 2 trials that I reported on above were "same day" doughs cooked within 6 or 7 hours, but I just completed a 3rd trial in which I refrigerated the dough (and used AP flour along with semolina and rice flour) in a ziplock bag for 48 hours and it turned out great also.  Since I had planned to refrigerate the dough, I almost halved the yeast to slow the fermentation.  I think  -- but don't have the experience to back it up -- if you lower the amount of yeast to .9 or 1% (or maybe lower) and do a counter 24 hr. room temperature proof, that it should work fine.  My same day doughs rose "beautifully!" 

The one challenge to this dough is getting it onto whatever you bake it on, as it is a soft and delicate dough skin until par baked.  But I've become very adept at rolling it onto my rolling pin and off onto a pan or screen, but I went through a learning cycle on that (with many a messed up dough skin).  If holes or tears in the skin happens, just plug with some scrap dough.  After it hits the oven heat, it firms up and becomes crispy, crunchy and tender (after 6, 7 or whatever number of minutes of par bake).  I'll report shortly on the 3rd trial with pictures, but I held a large piece of baked pizza on the very edge of the piece with my fingers and it held out to be rigid and firm throughout, with no floppy or limp characteristics, yet tender and tasty.  I used some corn meal under the crust this last time and it turned out really good.  Whenever you get around to trying it, I don't think you'll be disappointed. 

Preliminarily, I am recommending that the semolina and rice flour be limited to 20% and that the white wheat flour (bread or even AP) be 80%.  And of that 20%, the rice flour can be used in the range of 8 to 12% of the total flour amount.
                       --BTB
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 10:26:21 AM by BTB »

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2009, 09:26:51 AM »
The one challenge to this dough is getting it onto whatever you bake it on, as it is a soft and delicate dough skin until par baked.  But I've become very adept at rolling it onto my rolling pin and off onto a pan or screen, but I went through a learning cycle on that (with many a messed up dough skin).  If holes or tears in the skin happens, just plug with some scrap dough.  After it hits the oven heat, it firms up and becomes crispy, crunchy and tender (after 6, 7 or whatever number of minutes of par bake).  I'll report shortly on the 3rd trial with pictures, but I held a large piece of baked pizza on the very edge of the piece with my fingers and it held out to be rigid and firm throughout, with no floppy or limp characteristics, yet tender and tasty.  I used some corn meal under the crust this last time and it turned out really good.  Whenever you get around to trying it, I don't think you'll be disappointed. 

BTB,
What I've been doing, as shown in some of my posts, is to roll out the dough between 2 sheets of plastic oiled plastic wrap (18" wide Reynolds from Sam's) to avoid using any added flour and it works great. You should be able to apply the same technique to yours and easily pick it up with the plastic wrap with the dough and lay onto the pan then peel off the plastic with no messing up of anything. This really works quite well and I do this all the time now with all my doughs regardless of which style a make. I'll be trying yours soon.
Thanks
Jon
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Offline BTB

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2009, 10:25:10 AM »
What I've been doing, as shown in some of my posts, is to roll out the dough between 2 sheets of plastic oiled plastic wrap (18" wide Reynolds from Sam's) to avoid using any added flour and it works great. You should be able to apply the same technique to yours and easily pick it up with the plastic wrap with the dough and lay onto the pan then peel off the plastic with no messing up of anything. This really works quite well and I do this all the time now with all my doughs regardless of which style a make.
Jon, that sounds like a good idea.  I have plastic wrap, but it's only 12" wide.  I'm overdue for a visit to Sam's so I'll look for the larger size when I'm next there.  Thanks.  Great ideas from great pizzamakers.           --BTB

Offline BTB

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Re: Great Thin Crust w. Rice Flour
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2009, 04:28:26 PM »
I recently finished my "third trial" thin crust in which I used rice flour as a small part of the flour blend, along with a little of my other favorite -- semolina flour.  Only it didn't start out to be a thin crust.  I had made some dough balls using the deep-dish dough calculation tool and similarly factored in a little rice flour to see what affect that would have on deep dish pizzas, which I haven't reported on yet.  In making the dough balls for the number of guests that I had over last weekend, I found I had more than I needed, so I just continued to refrigerate one excess deep-dish dough ball and decided to use it later for a thin crust pizza instead.
 
For deep dish I generally always use all purpose flour, in this case King Arthur's, so the formulation I used was as follows:
 
Flour Blend* (100%):  205.93 g  |  7.26 oz | 0.45 lbs
Water (47%):  96.79 g  |  3.41 oz | 0.21 lbs
ADY (.85%):  1.75 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.46 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
Olive Oil (6%):  12.36 g | 0.44 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.75 tsp | 0.92 tbsp
Corn Oil (12%):  24.71 g | 0.87 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.49 tsp | 1.83 tbsp
Butter/Margarine (6%):  12.36 g | 0.44 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.61 tsp | 0.87 tbsp
Sugar (1%):  2.06 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.52 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
Total (172.85%): 355.95 g | 12.56 oz | 0.78 lbs | TF = 0.126875
   *Note:  The flour blend is made up of 164.7 g./5.8 oz (80%) all-purpose flour, 16.47 g./.58 oz (8%) semolina flour, and 24.7 g./.87 oz. (12%) rice flour.

For the deep-dish calculation tool I entered a 9" pizza with a thickness factor of .125 and a bowl residue of 1.5%.  Unlike the 2 thin crusts referenced above, I added no salt and since I was planning to have the dough balls cool in the refrigerator for some time, I put in almost half of the yeast that I did for the "same day" dough balls, as the retarded fermentation requires less yeast, I believe.  But since I didn't use this dough ball for the deep dish that I planned, I just later rolled it out to a pretty thin thickness factor (est. .05 to .06) about 50 hrs. after making the dough ball.  The weight of the 9" deep dish dough ball was nearly 356 g. while the weight of the dough balls for the 14" thin crust mentioned above (but with scrap) was about 425 grams.  So I didn't know if I could stretch this dough ball out to cover my 14" cutter pan.  Well as it ended up, it almost stretch out as far, but it must have resulted in an est. TF of .05 to .06.  Pretty thin. 
 
In the first trial pizza mentioned above, I put a few quick pinches of corn meal on my lightly oil cutter pan, and that turned out very good.  On the second trial pizza, I forgot to put both any oil or corn meal on the pan before par baking, but it also turn out great anyway.  The dough had enough oil and really didn't need anything additional anyway.  On this third trial pizza (i.e., the "deep-dish" turned into a thin crust) I did lightly oil the cutter pan (est. 1/2 tsp.) and put a lot more corn meal on the pan before setting the dough skin on it.  That really hit the spot, too. 
 
Here is a picture of the dough stretched out to almost covered the 14" pan, along with a picture of the dough "docked" with a seafood fork (which has blunt tips), and a picture of the pizza dressed and ready to bake (after a par bake of the skin for about 7 minutes which shrunk the skin to about a 12" to 13"). 


 

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