Author Topic: KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise  (Read 4034 times)

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Offline WestCountry

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KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise
« on: April 01, 2009, 10:06:04 AM »
KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise = A Great Tasting NY Style Pie

The Ingredients:
I have to thank Bill/SFNM since I used some of his recipe proportions as a starting point here and have been using his culture preparation techniques for my Ischia maintenance. I read and re-read several of the threads in the "Starters/Sponges" board of this site, which have been a huge help. Going through the process of activating and using a sourdough culture has been so much fun and I have been learning so much in that process.

KASL 406g (100%)
Water 247g (62%)
Kosher salt 1 tsp
Sugar 1 tsp
EVOO 1 tablespoon
Ischia starter 36g (5% dough weight, 46% Water)
(2% bowl residue)

This makes 2 dough balls x 342g each (13-14 inch size pies).

The time:
-Ferment at room temp (67-72 degrees F) = 15 hours.
-Divide and proof at room temp (avg 70 degrees F) = 6 hours.

The bake:
-Kitchen oven at 550 degrees on pizza stone, then a little bit under the broiler.

The results:
-Very light and crispy. Cornicione puffy and chewy (not dry). Good bubbles and blisters.
-One pie has pancetta
-One pie has a little red bell pepper.


Online Pete-zza

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Re: KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2009, 11:26:23 AM »
Chris,

Very nice job. Can you describe the crust flavors and texture for us, and also tell us how much you liked the pizzas?

From your 36 grams of Ischia starter, I estimate that you used about five teaspoons of it. What did you do with the rest of it?

Peter

Offline koloa101

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Re: KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2009, 12:17:09 PM »
that is a beautiful looking pie! i am starting to get a hang with natural starters.

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2009, 02:40:33 PM »
Amazing looking pie! It really shows me, again, how much more authentic and "NY puffier" the starter pizzas are. I've read the threads here on this and the more I read the more questions I have, and the questions I have are too stupid to ask. I'm really clueless on starters, but I am getting bored with the same Lehman-esque starter-less type dough in taste and consistency. I've gone from inedible to average. Great seems very far away.

Anyway, beautiful pizza.  :chef:
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Essen1

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Re: KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2009, 05:02:42 PM »
NYP,

I don't think that there are really any 'stupid' questions to ask when it comes to using starters.

But if you'd ask what flour is, then I'd have to agree with you  ;D

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Online tinroofrusted

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Re: KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2009, 01:12:36 AM »
Wow, that is seriously beautiful pizza.  Well done.  I personally prefer the taste of instant yeast in a pizza, as I find that the naturally leavened pizzas I've made are a bit too "sourdough" for my taste.  I prefer the milder yeasty flavor given by a commercial yeast.  Still, I would love to have made that pizza you made. It looks delicious! 

TinRoof

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2009, 01:21:42 AM »
I personally prefer the taste of instant yeast in a pizza, as I find that the naturally leavened pizzas I've made are a bit too "sourdough" for my taste.  I prefer the milder yeasty flavor given by a commercial yeast. 
It is possible for doughs based on starter cultures to have little or no "sourness". It has a lot to do with the properties of the individual culture, how it is fed, stored, activated, and fermented. Crusts made with Ischia starter, especially a culture that is used frequently, can be as mild as one made with instant yeast - different, but just as mild.

Bill/SFNM

Online JConk007

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Re: KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2009, 06:49:36 AM »
Really Really Really Nice I am ordering today!!
Thanks for sharing!
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline WestCountry

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Re: KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2009, 09:36:40 AM »
All- Thanks for the kind words.

Peter-
I absolutely loved these pies and I think it’s a favorite NY style recipe for me now. These pies had the crust texture characteristics I have been looking for – light, good bubbles, with a thin layer of perfect crispiness underneath (but not tough – which is an issue I am having with my high-heat recipes).  I tried this recipe with All-Trumps and KASL, and I found I prefer the KASL better. The cornicione had some nice chewy crumb to it inside and did not dry out (in past I had this issue with longer bake times). These pies seem to cook quicker. As far as actual taste – there is pretty much no sour/tangy taste that one might expect from using sourdough. To be honest – I have been using Ischia for a month now (twice a week) and my pizzas do not really display the sour flavor, but I made a couple breads that have a slight tangy flavor to them.  I am glad Bill/SFNM added some comments about taste in general – because I myself have also been wondering about that lately.

When I go through the culture preparation, I use 36g for pizza, another 36g for bread and this leaves me some extra, which I discard (about a cup). I need to figure out how to scale down the water/flour feeding ratios so I am not discarding as much, because I hate to have waste.

NY PizzaStriver-
I agree with Mike on the questions. I had a ton of questions with the cultures. In fact – they sat in my fridge 2+ years in package before I even activated one of them. Just going through the process, and studying related threads in the “Starter/Sponges” board really helped. Not to mention Ed Wood provided excellent customer support on a few questions I had for him.  I am still learning about the culture maintenance and the use of this yeast in bread and pizza…

Thanks again for the support from everyone,
Chris

Offline mmarston

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Re: KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2009, 10:24:37 AM »
My cultures have been in the fridge for two years also. It's time to take the plunge.

I usually make high temperature Neapolitan pizzas with Caputo flour.
Can I use KASL or AP flour for my starter or should I stick with the Caputo?

Michael
Nobody cares if you can't dance well.  Just get up and dance.  Dave Barry


Offline WestCountry

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Re: KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2009, 11:36:02 PM »
Hi Michael,

I have been feeding my starter Caputo 00 Pizzeria and using this culture for both my low heat and high heat pizzas. I should post some of the high heat Caputo results soon.

When I went through the initial activation process, I was using so much Caputo flour, that I decided to just use the KABF surplus I had (since it was more easily obtainable locally and less money). After my activation was complete, I switched back to using the Caputo pizzeria for the culture preparation feedings. Not sure if that is best thing to do, but it seemed to work for me.

Ed Wood mentioned to me that it could take longer to activate the culture, since I had it sit so long in the package. I think it took about 4-5 days for mine. Then it got really active (see first photo above)!

Good luck if you go through the process, and let me know if I can help.

Chris


Offline WestCountry

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Re: KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2009, 04:42:13 PM »
Here's another pizza from this recipe. I use this all the time now, and make the dough the night before.
...this time I cooked it at about 700 degrees, and used no olive oil (but I did keep the sugar in there)…

I have been enjoying the "6 in 1" or Pastene crushed tomatoes for a sauce...Mmmmmmm!

Chris  :pizza:

Offline pacoast

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Re: KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2009, 08:37:02 PM »
This thread is from this spring, but I thought that the pizzas looked very tempting, so I tried this recipe. I found that my dough easy tripled in size in an 11 hour fermentation at 70F. And tripled again when proofed 6 hours at 70F. I'll try it again with less starter next time & see which dough comes out best.

But I was wondering if the OP or anyone else would suggest a good target for the amount of rise. 50%, doubling, tripling? Triple seems like a lot and I'm wondering if this is "overproofing" & ending up with less than ideal dough. The water I used was moderately hard (150 ppm) @ 75F & the dough mixed for 6 minutes with a Kitchen Aid mixer. The only place that I deviated from the OP's recipe is in using up some KASG flour that I had left, rather than KASL. Thanks

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2009, 09:45:01 PM »
But I was wondering if the OP or anyone else would suggest a good target for the amount of rise. 50%, doubling, tripling? Triple seems like a lot and I'm wondering if this is "overproofing" & ending up with less than ideal dough.


Volume expansion is not a meaningful cue

Offline WestCountry

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Re: KASL + Ischia + Long Room Temp Rise
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2009, 08:58:33 AM »
Hi Pacoast,

When I use this recipe per above, I am seeing "tripling" in volume during my fermentation cycle. I am not sure about the proof, because I proof on an open wooden board...but probably "double-triple" volume here too. I don't have a target I shoot for, I just let it run its course.

Thanks for taking interest, wish you the best.
Chris