Rosati's thin crust recipe?

[zspec1]

Just wondering if anyone knows any recipe that comes close to Rosati's thin crust pizza?

I've been trying myself with no luck.  I remember their dough having a sort of cracker texture but I
can't remember much since it's been so many years since I've had one.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Mad_Ernie]

Zspec:

There used to be a couple of Rosati's near me but they both closed.  My recollection was it was a thin crust (with cornmeal on the bottom?).  I am not sure it would be classified as a cracker crust.  It was crunchy, but not in a dry saltine-kind-of-way.  In looking at the pizza on the Rosati's website, it looks different than what I remember.  I thought the cheese and toppings went almost all the way to the ends, and it was cut in squares.  Their site also does not offer nutrition information because they say each site makes their product from scratch.

[loowaters]

I remember Rosati's using plenty of cornmeal on the peel, and resultantly, quite a bit on the bottom of the pie.  I don't remember it being very crackery, either.  Try my generic thin and use some cornmeal instead of flour on the peel and see how it comes out.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6368.0.html  It's a starting point if nothing else.

Loo

[zspec1]

Your right Mad_Ernie it didn't have a dry cracker crust but it was crunchy.  I don't recall the cornmeal from the one I used to go over on Algonquin, Il but I'll go ahead and give it a try tonight.

Loo, I'm giving your recipe a try as I type.  Thanks for the advice and I'll let you know how it turns out.

Thanks for the replies Mad_Ernie and loowaters.

[zspec1]

Oh, one more question;

I have a cutterpan from pizzatools.com and A pizza stone from the local walmart.  In making this kind of recipe which would you recommend I use?

[goosen1]

If I remember correctly, They roll it out very thin. You can try any of the thin crust recipes and have a basic taste for the crust. The sauce is what you need to figure out to get the flavor you are looking for.

Goose

[Mad_Ernie]

Zspec:

For most pizzas of this type, I go with the cutterpan.  Good luck and keep us posted on your progress. 

-ME

[zspec1]

If I remember correctly, They roll it out very thin. You can try any of the thin crust recipes and have a basic taste for the crust. The sauce is what you need to figure out to get the flavor you are looking for.

Goose

I just finished trying loowaters recipe posted above (with a little of of milk as mentioned later on that post) and it was very close to what I am looking for.  The only thing was that I tried it on the cutter pan (470 degrees) and it was not as crispy (besides the edges) as I wanted.  I guess next time I'll transfer it over from the cutter pan to the stone midway next time.  

The sweet sauce is perfect as far as I'm concerned, nice and extra sweet .

Does anyone have any tips for getting a crispier crust without burning the cheese? I already place it on the lowest rack in the oven.

[loowaters]

Does anyone have any tips for getting a crispier crust without burning the cheese? I already place it on the lowest rack in the oven.

Yes, stone only.  With all respect to ME, no cutter pan.  The Rosati's that we used to order from had deck ovens and pies went straight to the deck from the peel.  The one near me used cornmeal but it's possible not all of them did.   

Loo

[zspec1]

Yes, stone only.  With all respect to ME, no cutter pan.  The Rosati's that we used to order from had deck ovens and pies went straight to the deck from the peel.  The one near me used cornmeal but it's possible not all of them did.   

Loo

Thanks again Loo, I'll do ahead and try the stone only next time (which I'm horrible at!)

[loowaters]

Thanks again Loo, I'll do ahead and try the stone only next time (which I'm horrible at!)

You'll get better at it.  Remember to work fast on building the pie and use plenty of cornmeal.  There's plenty of other tips around here on getting the pie off the peel, as well.

[mrmojo1]

as a newby, the best thing that happened to me as far as a peel and a stone was getting the large retangular stone, i think i had to go through williams sonoma, cause i couldnt find one.  the smaller circular ones look like a nightmare to me now, trying to get my 14" pie which i am not good at getting perfectly circular yet...onto that small diameter.  the large sqaure stone offers much more area and much more forgiveness!  i over shot one edge fri night...dammit.  got the gloves shook it back on the stone no prob.  phew! 

[zspec1]

No luck with the second time, I got distracted by the kids and ended up burning the cheese and making the crust wood hard, lol.  I'll give this  a try again this weekend.  Fortunately I'm in Milwaukee this week and will try to head down to a Rosati's and get a better idea of what I'm looking for. 

Thanks for all the help so far, I'll put up my results after I try the next one.

[mrmojo1]

cant wait to see to hear of your next try!  with the oven at 550 or so heating up the stone, i was amazed at how fast the pizzas will cook.  10 mins-12mins...i like you have totally burnt some,  now i sit in front and watch with the oven light on, trying to guage the browning of the cheese!  then, get it out! run to the overn thorw open the oven door...oops its stuck on one side! freak out!!!! get the spatula!!  get it out! freak out!  heh heh!  fun though!  but yeah they cook fast!!

[BTB]

For most pizzas of this type, I go with the cutterpan.

Yes, stone only.  With all respect to ME, no cutter pan.

Here's my perspective regarding use of a pizza stone vs. cutter pan for baking Chicago style thin crust pizzas.  Nearly all of the great Chicago thin crust pizzerias that I experienced baked their pizzas in a metal-based deck ovens, some revolving, some stationary.  And of course with such, you never need to use a pan, disk or screen.  Not until lately with the upsurge and increased interest in some Chicago pizza circles in "gourmet" Neapolitan and NY and Eastern U.S. style pizzas were there "wood-fired" and/or stone and brick based pizza ovens in much use around Chicago, at least that I can recall.  All the ovens of the great thin and pan Chicago area pizzerias were metal-based (probably all steel) and remain to this day with most -- but not all -- of them.  But now there are numerous types of different conveyor and variant types of ovens.  But to a traditionalist like me, the old fashion, metal-based deck oven was and still is the best.
 
Use of my non-perforated metal cutter pan comes closest in my estimation to matching the baking effect and characteristics of a Chicago style thin crust pizza crust for home oven pizzamaking that I prefer and the results more closely match the job done in most of the great Chicago pizzeria's deck ovens.  I know our home ovens can never hope to get the same kind of bake that the commercial ovens do, but the metal cutter pan has done better for me than my pizza stones ever can do -- again at least as far as Chicago style thin crusts are concerned . . . maybe not other styles.  That may be just my experience, who knows.   And the pan should be placed low in the home oven, which in my Florida home electric oven (w. no heating elements visible) is the absolute bottom level. (This is not the case if you have heating elements visible in your oven.)  You can lightly oil or crisco the pan to aid in color/crispnest, altho not essential, and/or also put down some corn meal or semolina under the pizza skin for a special unique effect. 

For "traditional" Chicago style thin crust pizzas, baking on a pizza stone would not be "typical" but instead "unusual," at least on a commercial basis.  I'm sure, however, that in many instances the results could be very good.   Rosati's, of which I was in the past very familiar with, originally used only metal deck ovens, but I guess like their mass produced counterparts (Little Cesar's, Domino's, Little or Papa John's, etc.), the mass produced pizza products all now utilize the discredited conveyor style ovens -- but not pizza stones or bricks.
 
So to many of you out there, please don't dismiss use of a cutter pan.  In the opinion of many -- like me -- it does as good or better than use of a pizza stone or screen for home use, at least on some style pizzas (i.e., Chicago thin).  But if a pizza stone works good for you, then great cause that's what counts. Just one man's opinion and it's probably not worth much.   --BTB

[JConk007]

Worth a lot to me BTB your recipe for the deep dish has put my pizza making on the map here in Nj my friends are going cray over it!
As for the cutter pan YES they rock . It makes the best cracker crust out there! another fantastic pizza. For all crackers I use this cutter pan and all  I also did the chicago thin in the cutter Pan
Thank you As can see in my posts they all come out great? personal  opinion only
john

[mrmojo1]

Yes, stone only.  With all respect to ME, no cutter pan.  The Rosati's that we used to order from had deck ovens and pies went straight to the deck from the peel.  The one near me used cornmeal but it's possible not all of them did.   

Loo

i too was having a hard time with my cheese getting too brown for my tastes while using a stone and trying to get the crispiness i wanted without burning the cheese.  i tried a couple things.  i read somewhere(maybe this site) that a little spray of olive oil on the cheese on the pizza before it hits the oven may get you another minute or 2.  i bought one of those self pump olive oil mist'ers and used several times but i didnt notice any benefit.  then, i tried and i still do this after 10 min sometimes cooking at 550c on a stone if the cheese was getting too brown, id open the door to the overn all the wayfor a about 30 sec to a min, a large rush of hot air comes out and i think this buys me maybe a minute of cheese time with the crust still crisping on the stone.  but the best improvement to me fighting this problem was using the bakers % of loos basic thin crust and then 10-12 min was perfect.  although sometimes i do throw the door open for a min or 30secs if im gettin nervous. 

[loowaters]

BTB, that's a really good and insightful piece on the metal floored deck ovens used.  Now we'll have an army of home pizza makers measuring their ovens to have custom pieces of sheet metal made for home pizza making use. 

I've made pies using preheated cookie sheets as the cooking shelf (upside down - serious pie size limitations) in addition to prepping and cooking on my perforated disks and I've found the best for me to be the stone, probably because of the stone's ability to absorb some of the moisture. 

Loo

[zspec1]

Here's a quick update. 

I'm getting much closer to my original goal thanks to the tip about opening the oven door occasionally.  I've been using my cutter pan on the bottom rack at 450 preheat and 475 cooking time.  With this the crust is perfect in regards to the texture, now I have to get the flavor closer. 

I never got the chance to head down to Chicago for the refresher so I'll have to wait till next time.  I just need to take some pictures to show my progress next time.  Thanks for everyones help so far and I'll try to update whenever I get a chance.

On a side note, after living in Farmington, CT for the past 3 years I finally got a chance to visit Pepe Frank's pizza in New Haven and I must say I'm impressed on how good a slightly burnt pizza taste!  Anyone here ever have a chance to try one? If so what was your impression?

[mrmojo1]

Here's my perspective regarding use of a pizza stone vs. cutter pan for baking Chicago style thin crust pizzas.  Nearly all of the great Chicago thin crust pizzerias that I experienced baked their pizzas in a metal-based deck ovens, some revolving, some stationary.  And of course with such, you never need to use a pan, disk or screen.  Not until lately with the upsurge and increased interest in some Chicago pizza circles in "gourmet" Neapolitan and NY and Eastern U.S. style pizzas were there "wood-fired" and/or stone and brick based pizza ovens in much use around Chicago, at least that I can recall.  All the ovens of the great thin and pan Chicago area pizzerias were metal-based (probably all steel) and remain to this day with most -- but not all -- of them.  But now there are numerous types of different conveyor and variant types of ovens.  But to a traditionalist like me, the old fashion, metal-based deck oven was and still is the best.
 
Use of my non-perforated metal cutter pan comes closest in my estimation to matching the baking effect and characteristics of a Chicago style thin crust pizza crust for home oven pizzamaking that I prefer and the results more closely match the job done in most of the great Chicago pizzeria's deck ovens.  I know our home ovens can never hope to get the same kind of bake that the commercial ovens do, but the metal cutter pan has done better for me than my pizza stones ever can do -- again at least as far as Chicago style thin crusts are concerned . . . maybe not other styles.  That may be just my experience, who knows.   And the pan should be placed low in the home oven, which in my Florida home electric oven (w. no heating elements visible) is the absolute bottom level. (This is not the case if you have heating elements visible in your oven.)  You can lightly oil or crisco the pan to aid in color/crispnest, altho not essential, and/or also put down some corn meal or semolina under the pizza skin for a special unique effect. 

For "traditional" Chicago style thin crust pizzas, baking on a pizza stone would not be "typical" but instead "unusual," at least on a commercial basis.  I'm sure, however, that in many instances the results could be very good.   Rosati's, of which I was in the past very familiar with, originally used only metal deck ovens, but I guess like their mass produced counterparts (Little Cesar's, Domino's, Little or Papa John's, etc.), the mass produced pizza products all now utilize the discredited conveyor style ovens -- but not pizza stones or bricks.
 
So to many of you out there, please don't dismiss use of a cutter pan.  In the opinion of many -- like me -- it does as good or better than use of a pizza stone or screen for home use, at least on some style pizzas (i.e., Chicago thin).  But if a pizza stone works good for you, then great cause that's what counts. Just one man's opinion and it's probably not worth much.   --BTB

has anyone tried outfitting their oven with a metal base insert with any success?  thanks!