Author Topic: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie  (Read 4682 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gruffs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Austin, TX
Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« on: May 07, 2009, 07:02:58 AM »
Hey Guys,

My brother and I have been working with pizza for the last month or so and stumbled across pizzamaking.com just a couple of weeks back. Needless to say with the wealth of information on this site we have progressed quite a bit more in the last 2 weeks then we had in the first 2.  So, thank you much!

I can't load pictures or else I would share with what our pizzas look like.  We are trying to make the best NY pizza possible then move on to the Chicago style.  Tonight we finally hit the mark, using the recipe found here on the recipes page. We used King Arthur Bread Flour (blue and white package), kosher salt, classico olive oil, store brand IDY and spring water - we found out that our water had a lot of chlorine in it so our dough wasn't really rising.  

Just wanted to stop by after being a 'guest' for so long and say thanks for all the great info.  When I'm able, I'll post our pizza progression from start to finish so you guys can help us tweak anything that might need it!  

Much appreciation,

-Gruff Brothers


Offline JConk007

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 3714
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Lovin my Oven!
    • Flirting with Fire
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2009, 08:44:11 AM »
Welcome Gruff Bros.
Which recipe did you use? Always love the pictures of the pizza
I am allways curious, what information has helped you most improve your pizza?
Dough? Sauce? cheese type? Baking techniques?
Thanks for sharing
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline Gruffs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Austin, TX
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2009, 05:10:07 PM »
Hey John,


We used the NY pizza recipe from the recipeís section. pizzamaking.com/newyorkstyle.php) And, the one big thing has really been coming to understand that we need to measure everything we use.  Before it was just ďthatís about a cup and a halfĒ and now itís ď brush that little bit off, it needs to be exactly 200gĒ Ė so  thatís really helped us to make good dough.  

Also, another lesson learned has been cold fermentation.  My brother and I have worked at pizza shops, namely the big four, and never really thought anything about the fridges besides just storage.  Come to find out the fridge is for more than just hiding from the boss! So with this dough we let it sit for 24 hours in the fridge and then let it proof and warm up for an hour or so Ė when itís ready to toss, itís absolutely glorious!

We were making sauce in the style you would with lasagna, cooking it with wine, reducing it down and letting it simmer for a couple of hours. It was ok, but it didnít taste like NY pizza sauce.  Come to find out the canned tomatoes, garlic powder, various dried herbs, onion powder, bit of sugar, salt and pepper Ė pureed and then painted on cold was far superior in taste and way easier to make.  

We started off with using a mixture of cheeses that Alton Brown suggested in his pizza show, namely Monterey Jack, Mozzarella and Provolone.  Iím not a huge fan of provolone which to me tastes a bit like mozzarella and swiss, and the Monterey jack just didnít seem to belong.  So, after reading some posts, I just started using straight up shredded mozzarella and it seems to be better Ė more consistent texture and taste.  (If anyone would like to share a particularly delicious cheese mixture I would love to try out stuff that works for you guys!)

Baking techniques, mainly just making sure that the pan we are using (cheap little pizza pan) is dusted with semolina so the dough doesnít stick, havenít had a dough stick yet!  I have a feeling that when we receive our pizza stone or start to make Chicago style we will be in need of some tips and tricks.  Watching youtube videos about how to toss pizza has been really helpful in just making a uniform crust.

So, thatís pretty much where we are now and how we got there without pictures!  But, thatís not really fun Ė Iíll be sure to post what the pies look like as soon as Iím able.  
Thanks much!

-   Gruff Brothers


Offline Gruffs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Austin, TX
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2009, 09:39:37 PM »
One thing I came across that I was hoping to get some insight on is when I leave my dough out after fermenting in the fridge for 24 hours, while itís relaxing a thick crusty shell begins to harden on the outside of the dough.  So when I throw it out it ends up having these crust chunks around the edge of the pizza. 

Should I be doing something Iím not when I let the dough proof?

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22323
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2009, 09:49:54 PM »
Gruffs,

My practice when tempering a dough ball on the bench is to cover the dough ball with a sheet of plastic wrap so that a dry skin doesn't form. However, pizza operators will use the dry or crusty side of a dough ball as the bottom of the skin. That is said to produce a crispier bottom crust.

Peter

Offline JConk007

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 3714
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Lovin my Oven!
    • Flirting with Fire
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2009, 09:54:13 PM »
Thanks for the info guys.
Very important fact of getting digital scale to measure. Once I got that then it was on to bakers % and learning whats in the different doughs and how they handle
The cracker 36% hydration is somewhat hard to roll out. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7592.0.html The Chicago style deep dish (BTB with semolina) contains a lot of oils but comes out like a biscuit. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8094.0.html The good ole NY can be spun thrown about. The wood neapolitana dough oven uses only flour, salt, water, and yeast and is high hydration 68% and spread out like a dream when room temp.
Anyway read read and keep experimenting its a ton of fun! and taste good too.

Oh for the room rise you can cover in saran ( plastic)wrap , spritz with oil, or dust w/ flour personal opinions abound.
Also if you get the crunchy crust on douogh use that side for the bottom when placing in oven and it crisps up nice. Some people do this on purpose comes out great! Hey you beat me to that one peter as I was posting  :)
John
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 09:59:38 PM by JConk007 »
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3394
  • Location: SF Bay Area
    • The Hobby Cook
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2009, 10:44:53 PM »
Covering the dough with a damp tea towel does also work. It gives it the ability to still "breathe", for the lack of a better word, without drying it out and having the top skin develop a crust.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline Gruffs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Austin, TX
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2009, 05:14:40 AM »
Here is the pizza we made last night.  The bottom of the pizza (not the underside) is jagged from the crust I was asking about in my previous post - else I would have had it perfectly round!! 

Offline Gruffs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Austin, TX
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2009, 05:26:59 AM »
Here is our Crust - let me know what you think.  Not yet sure what to really look for in the crust - it's just what I saw other folks posting.  :-D

Offline Gruffs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Austin, TX
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2009, 05:28:54 AM »
And, here is a shot of just the pizza as my dog likes to see it.... poor pizzaless soul. 


Offline zalicious

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 157
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2009, 10:43:08 AM »
And, here is a shot of just the pizza as my dog likes to see it.... poor pizzaless soul. 

Very funny! :-D Your pizza looks good, by the way.

Offline JConk007

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 3714
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Lovin my Oven!
    • Flirting with Fire
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2009, 11:47:14 AM »
Pizza looks good to me also. And very nice for no stone, or screen right? Good pictures and angles for the fellow members to help you out.  Its like building a house, it can be done, but its easier with the right tools ;)  I am sure once you get a scale and some more info they will turn out even better, and better each time. Sorry Fido- can't he have a pizza bone?
The NY style from Peter Reinhart is another good basic starting point. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8100.0.html You can see in the upside down shot reply #1 pic 3871 the darker circular areas thats what Peter and I were talking about when you keep the crusted side of the dough on the bottom I really like that crunch.
Keep em coming
John
« Last Edit: May 08, 2009, 11:57:10 AM by JConk007 »
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline Gruffs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Austin, TX
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2009, 08:35:32 AM »
Howdy All!

Thanks for the replies, we finally got our pizza stone and did the somewhat 5 hours of heating the manufacturer recommended and then threw on a dusting of flour as they too recommended - which immediately burned to a crisp and had to be scrapped off.  But, once that small set back was complete we tossed on our pizza and thought it looked great, but upon further inspection the bottom was charred black and ruined the entire pizza.  We chalked it up to the flour dusting and made another batch for the next day. 

The next day when we made our pizzas and tossed them on (after thoroughly scrapping the pizza stone) we found out again that the crust was well cooked and the cheese bubbling but the bottom was charred black.  Needless to say I'm losing faith quickly in a pizza stone.  I have a feeling there is something that I'm doing wrong. 

I'm baking at 550 - with a 10'' pizza for about 5 minutes.
I preheated my stone for an hour and a half or so before throwing on the pizza.

Could I be dusting the pizza too much when I throw it out?
Am I dusting my peel with too much semolina?

I posted some picture - just so you guys can see how the pies are shaping up and the middle picture of the individual slice will show a bit of the black on the bottom.




Offline Gruffs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Austin, TX
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2009, 08:38:08 AM »
The bottom can be seen in this picture.

Offline Gruffs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Austin, TX
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2009, 08:41:20 AM »
This last picture is the 2nd pie we threw - it looked great but that damn burnt bottom was back.   :'(  It's been a tough pizza day.

Thanks guys for all the help so far!  And btw John, I've seen some of your counter-tops in your pizza pictures - they are kick ass. 

Offline JConk007

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 3714
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Lovin my Oven!
    • Flirting with Fire
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2009, 02:53:35 PM »
Hey Guys,
The pre heating should not be an issue. The more time the better. Where is ?What is? the location of the stone on/in the oven. I would think bottom? Is there an heating element on the bottom of your oven?
You are using flour and semolina directly on stone? ( pic of stone and set up may help)
When I broke in my stones I never added anything (dusting) to any part at anytime?
Is this a Fibrament stone? do you use the broiler at all during the process?
Do you have access to Rice flour ? this tends not to really burn when used as an instrument to get pizza from the peel to the stone. The idea is to use just enough flour and/or corn meal to get the pizza off no more. and none on stone before placing thats a nono
What type of Peel are you using? Metal ? wood? None?
More toys and tools may be required here a good peel, infrared thermometer, to check temp of stone....
Sounds like a lot but if you cost average over all the pizzas you will be making its a drop in the bucket!
Keep on trying and posting The stone IMO maks the best home pizza.
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline Gruffs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Austin, TX
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2009, 05:33:10 PM »
Hey John,

Thanks for the additional questions.  Yes, the stone is Fibrament and and it's on the bottom of my oven.  My oven doesn't have any coils or heating elements visible so I think it's in the broiler at the bottom.  I've included some pics of the stone and the oven setup.  I never even thought about getting a gun thermometer but I certainly need a new peel.  My current one is simple metal and it's only 12'' - I worked up a make shift particle board peel for my 14" pizzas and it seems to work fairly well.

As for the broiler, I'm not sure if it's turning on during the process but it shouldn't be as I keep the temp at 550 - but I'm not really sure, ovens aren't something I'm super familiar with. We don't use semolina or flour directly on the stone, but we do use semolina on the peel to get the pie onto the stone.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2009, 05:35:28 PM by Gruffs »

Offline Gruffs

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 24
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Austin, TX
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2009, 05:34:10 PM »
Oven and Stone Pic

Thanks again, always appreciated!

-Gruff Brothers

Offline PizzaHog

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 542
  • Location: Clinton Township, MI
  • Heat matters!
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2009, 06:45:32 PM »
Hey Gruff Bros
My oven is similar to yours (gas, heat comes out of vents on oven floor), and when I tested the oven floor method at 550 the stone hit like 635.  And my stone has little legs so there is an air gap between it and the floor.  I have read that some folks have gotten over 700 with the same set up as yours (no legs on stone, stone on floor).  So I would bet that your stone is way hotter than you might think.
In addition, I have found that even with the stone on a rack its temp can still exceed what the oven is set to, more so the lower the rack is positioned.  I guess this makes sense if you figure the air coming out of the floor vents is prob like 900, and the first thing it hits is the stone, and your stone is large enough for the ends to actually cover, or rest directly above the vents.
So moving that stone around to find the best spot for your dough is next, and most everyone has had to do the same.  There is no standard here, just trial and error, but eating the tests is a good thing. 
Harbor Freight puts these IR thermometers on sale frequently for $29 - $39, unfortunately they do not appear to be on sale right now http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96451, but getting one can be a big help, as has been suggested.
If in the end you find the stone always seems to hot compared to the heat hitting the top of the pie, wrapping a double layer of alum foil around the rack tines directly under the stone usually shaves off a few degrees.  There are a ton of oven tricks out there so just ask, but it looks like you are well on your way.
Keep bakin' and posting,
Hog

Edit:  The IR thermo at Harbor Freight is on sale for $29 today 5-12.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 10:45:49 AM by PizzaHog »

Offline perna

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 22
Re: Bro and I - Make a Pizza Pie
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2009, 10:04:11 PM »
Covering those vents is changing the way your over is supposed to work. Because the vents are covered the hot air isnt getting into the oven like it should and your burner probably stays on the whole time you are preheating. You are basicly changing your convection oven into a conduction oven. The broiler part of your oven is probably getting way over heated which can cause other problems, like a fire.

I would try it on rack which will uncover the vents, which will let the oven get to temp. faster by letting air circulate and the stone temp will be closer to the air temp..


 

pizzapan