Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 250060 times)

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Offline sallam

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #800 on: January 20, 2015, 04:03:56 PM »
sallam,

Did you specifically try the dough formulation at Reply 24 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg59357.html#msg59357? If so and you did not get the results you were looking for, then, yes, it is possible to do as you suggest but I cannot tell you the time periods to use since I do not recall trying that method myself with a PJ clone dough. The method you propose, however, is a fairly common one among pizza operators so it should work if you can work out the details.

Peter

I've tried long room temp fermentation, but the results were bad. It seems that where I live the air possibly has some bad enzymes lurking around, so they invade the dough and develop bad taste before the yeast develops strongly enough to ward off the bad enzymes. Just guessting.

But I've just finished baking 2 pies with an experimental dough that I left in room temp for 1hour before it went in the fridge for 48 hours, opening cold in trays then a 90 minutes rest before baking. The result was huge oven rise, possibly the highest I've seen, but the crust didn't have that beautiful tang that I'm used to with cold fermenting. It tasted as if it was fermented in room temp, with almost no effect from the 2-day cold ferment (other than the oven spring). Perhaps the 1 hour allowed the yeast to develop enough power to block the development of the fridge enzymes that is supposed to give the dough the nice tangy taste?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 04:20:41 PM by sallam »
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Offline sallam

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #801 on: January 20, 2015, 09:03:22 PM »
Peter,
You wrote earlier in the thread about your experiment with the use of a poolish. I'm interested to know your formula and procedures, and how long did you ferment the poolish itself.

I'm thinking.. what if I cold ferment a poolish for 2 days, instead of cold fermenting the whole dough. Will such poolish transform the light sour, lovely tangy taste of a 2-day cold fermented dough, to the dough made with such poolish, then left on room temp to double? If so, it would solve the tight fridge space I'm having...
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 09:12:35 PM by sallam »
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #802 on: January 21, 2015, 07:48:31 PM »
Peter,
You wrote earlier in the thread about your experiment with the use of a poolish. I'm interested to know your formula and procedures, and how long did you ferment the poolish itself.

I'm thinking.. what if I cold ferment a poolish for 2 days, instead of cold fermenting the whole dough. Will such poolish transform the light sour, lovely tangy taste of a 2-day cold fermented dough, to the dough made with such poolish, then left on room temp to double? If so, it would solve the tight fridge space I'm having...
sallam,

As best I can recall, I made two Papa John's clone dough balls using a preferment.

In one case, I used a natural preferment. The results of that experiment are set forth in Reply 38 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg60892.html#msg60892. I posted the results because I thought that they were noteworthy. I also wanted to satisfy my curiosity that it was possible to make a naturally leavened PJ clone dough and a pizza using that dough that I wouldn't mind eating.

In the second case, I used a preferment to make another PJ clone dough but instead of using a natural leavening it was leavened with only commercial yeast. I mentioned that experiment in Reply 35 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6749.msg58335.html#msg58335 but I did not post the dough formulation because the crust was too puffy and breadlike and not close enough to a PJ crust to qualify as a PJ clone. However, since you asked me about the latter version, I went back to my PJ clone file and found the dough formulation I actually used. It is as follows:

King Arthur Bread Flour (KABF) (100%):
Water (62%):
IDY (1.25%):
Salt (1.5%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (7%):
Sugar (4.75%):
Total (176.5%):
344.68 g  |  12.16 oz | 0.76 lbs
213.7 g  |  7.54 oz | 0.47 lbs
4.31 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.43 tsp | 0.48 tbsp
5.17 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.93 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
24.13 g | 0.85 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.31 tsp | 1.77 tbsp
16.37 g | 0.58 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.11 tsp | 1.37 tbsp
608.36 g | 21.46 oz | 1.34 lbs | TF = 0.1394
Note: The KABF is sifted. the dough is for a single 14" pizza; bowl residue compensation = 2.5%

For the preferment, I used 6.08 ounces of the flour (1 c. + 1/3 c. + 1.85 t.), all of the formula water (7.54 ounces, or 3/4 c. + 3 T. + 1.4 t.) and about one-half of the formula IDY (about 3/4 teaspoon). The preferment was allowed to ferment for about 3 1/2 hours at a room temperature of about 79.5 degrees F. I then combined the preferment with all of the remaining flour, all of the remaining IDY, and the sugar and oil. The dough so formed was allowed to rest at the above room temperature for 1 1/2 hours. I don't recall exactly how I came up with the above prefermentation protocol but usually my guide in matters like this is the two articles by Didier Rosada at http://web.archive.org/web/20040814193817/cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food3_apr2004.htm and at http://web.archive.org/web/20050829015510/www.cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food4_dec2004.htm. What I ended up with was a one-day dough. That was by design.

What you have set forth as a possible approach to use may work but I cannot tell you if your specific numbers will work. For example, you would have to modify the preferment (the amounts of flour, water and IDY) in your case to last for two days at the temperature of your refrigerator, and then combine the preferment with the rest of the formula ingredients to form the final dough and then allow that dough to ferment at room temperature until doubled. The math for doing this sort of thing can get tricky, especially deciding on how to apportion the total formula IDY between the preferment and the final dough, and you might also need to change the amounts of flour and water in the preferment.

Peter