Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 399455 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1050 on: April 21, 2016, 02:27:11 PM »
Papa John's is removing high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) from its entire line of foods:

http://www.meatpoultry.com/articles/news_home/Business/2016/04/Papa_Johns_removes_HFCS_from_m.aspx?ID={06B9B989-936C-4EEB-B477-C956EF44CCAB}&cck=1

Out of curiosity, I went back to an ingredients document that PJ gave me in 2008 to see which of their products at the time contained HFCS. PJ no longer makes such a document available to the outside world and no doubt there have been changes in ingredients since 2008, but the items that had HFCS at that time included the following:

BBQ Sauce
Blue Cheese Dipping Sauce
Buffalo Dipping Sauce
Chipotle BBQ Sauce
Garlic Ranch Sauce
Honey Mustard Dipping Sauce
Italian Dressing
Ranch Dipping Sauce

Notably, and to the best of my knowledge, PJ does not use HFCS in any of their dough recipes or parbaked crusts, or in their cheeses, their pizza sauces, and most of their meat (e.g., sausage and pepperoni) and other pizza toppings.  I don't know if there are any GMO issues with any of those items but I am sure that PJ is carefully studying that matter.

Peter





Offline pepapi

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1051 on: June 20, 2016, 03:13:18 PM »
Hi Petezza, I just wanted to say thanks for the recipe and show you my results.  I waited 3 days to use the 2 day dough recipe due to unforeseen circumstances but had good results.  I was quite happy with it although I should have put more sauce.  Now that I'm happy with the bake, I think I'll up my ingredient level to better cheese and meat. 

http://imgur.com/a/yki8w


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1052 on: June 20, 2016, 03:58:47 PM »
pepapi,

That is a terrific looking clone of a PJ pizza. Thank you for posting your results.

Peter

Offline PizzaPap

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1053 on: June 24, 2016, 10:55:44 AM »
Peter,

I have been using your PJ clone dough in my Blackstone with very good results.(both the two day & the 24 hour)
I have used the 8 hour with mixed results. (reply 4)
By any chance have you come up with a new formulation for an 8 hour dough? (one without a punchdown)
I looked, but may have missed one in this looong thread. :)
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
YCDBSOYA

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1054 on: June 24, 2016, 12:38:50 PM »
Peter,

I have been using your PJ clone dough in my Blackstone with very good results.(both the two day & the 24 hour)
I have used the 8 hour with mixed results. (reply 4)
By any chance have you come up with a new formulation for an 8 hour dough? (one without a punchdown)
I looked, but may have missed one in this looong thread. :)
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
PizzaPap,

I believe that you meant Reply 24, not Reply 4, in your last post. Unfortunately, I did not come up with another 8-hour, room temperature fermented PJ clone dough. The biggest problem with room temperature fermented doughs is variations in room temperature. For example, in Texas where I live, the room temperature in the summer can be quite high, as much as 82 degrees F, and that is with the oven preheated and the AC running. That means using a minuscule amount of yeast to compensate for the high room temperatures.

However, I might mention that I came up with a 12-hour room temperature fermented PJ clone dough that was an extension of the version described in Reply 24 but required no punchdown. As you can see at Reply 30 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59762#msg59762, even that version used a very small amount of yeast. But, fortunately, there is now a good solution available to you, whether you choose to use the PJ clone formulation as set forth in Reply 24 or Reply 30. And that is to use member Craig's yeast quantity prediction model as set forth in Reply 261 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.msg393271#msg393271

So, to use the above referenced chart, which you can click to enlarge, you should select the temperature you want to use and the number of hours you would like to ferment the dough. The intersection of the two values will lead you the amount of yeast you will want to use, whether it is ADY, IDY or cake yeast. Those quantities are at the top of the chart.

I should also mention that some of my PJ clone formulations called for dough ball weights for the 14" size of from 20-22 ounces or so. That is because I did not know at the time what dough ball weight PJ was actually using, and they treated that information as proprietary and would not tell me the actual weight. However, we later learned that the dough ball weight the PJ uses is around 20 ounces, give or take a fraction of an ounce. So, if you wish, you can use a 20-ounce dough ball weight in the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded-calculator.html, along with the bakers percents that I set forth.

Peter

Offline PizzaPap

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1055 on: June 24, 2016, 01:35:08 PM »
Yes, I did mean reply 24. And I can see how the room temp could change the results. Today my kitchen temp is 73 F.

I did see the 12 hour dough formulation, but never have tried it. I didn't want to get up that early and start making dough.
I will check out Craig's chart.

I usually make smaller pizzas. (10-12 inch) so I use the  expanded dough calculating tool to give me my exact measurements for whatever ball I want. I actually have them printed out for certain size balls.

Thanks for your help. I have three balls in the fridge now for tomorrow night.
YCDBSOYA

Offline The Lord Of The Pizza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1056 on: July 07, 2016, 09:02:12 PM »
Hi Petezza, I just wanted to say thanks for the recipe and show you my results.  I waited 3 days to use the 2 day dough recipe due to unforeseen circumstances but had good results.  I was quite happy with it although I should have put more sauce.  Now that I'm happy with the bake, I think I'll up my ingredient level to better cheese and meat. 

http://imgur.com/a/yki8w
Beautiful!

What recipe did you use, bake time, bake setup, ingredients, sauce, etc.  Details! Give me the complete breakdown!!!   Amazing!
Cooking can be a reflection of your approach to everything. Do the best that you can and if you burn the toast, do it again, right.

Offline pepapi

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1057 on: July 08, 2016, 08:26:19 AM »
Beautiful!

What recipe did you use, bake time, bake setup, ingredients, sauce, etc.  Details! Give me the complete breakdown!!!   Amazing!

Hey thanks for the kind words.  Here is what I used:

Flour (100%):339.29 g  |  11.97 oz | 0.75 lbs
Water (56%):190 g  |  6.7 oz | 0.42 lbs
IDY (0.28%):0.95 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.32 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
Salt (1.9%):6.45 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.16 tsp | 0.39 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (5.55%):18.83 g | 0.66 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.15 tsp | 1.38 tbsp
Sugar (5.89%):19.98 g | 0.7 oz | 0.04 lbs | 5.01 tsp | 1.67 tbsp
Total (169.62%):575.51 g | 20.3 oz | 1.27 lbs | TF = N/A

2 day fermentation, if 3 days, change IDY to 0.25%
 
Dough ball is 21 oz. for a 14 pizza
 
- Place the water, at 65 degrees F, into the mixer bowl of stand mixer
- Add the salt, sugar and stir to dissolve, about 1 minute.
- Add the oil to the mixer With flat paddle attachment secured, and the mixer at stir speed, I gradually added the sifted flour to the bowl. I did this until all of the flour was roughly incorporated and the dough pulled away from the sides of the bowl and collected around the paddle attachment, about a minute or two.
- Scrape the dough off of the paddle attachment (it was shaggy and on the sticky side) and replace the paddle attachment with the C-hook and kneaded the dough mass, at stir speed, for about 1-2 minutes, to allow the oil to be more completely incorporated into the dough mass.
- Sprinkle yeast over the dough mass, and the dough was kneaded at speed 2 for about 5-6 minutes. At the end of that time, the dough was sticky and soft. However, with an additional minute of hand kneading, and without adding any additional bench flour, that stickiness disappeared and the dough was smooth and soft and supple. It was a very nicely formed dough.
-oil it lightly, put in container with lid and place in fridge for 2 days
-take out and let sit covered on counter for 2 hours before opening
-bake at 500f for 8-10 mins on perforated pizza pan, with convection

Offline pepapi

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1058 on: July 08, 2016, 08:28:49 AM »
PizzaPap,

I believe that you meant Reply 24, not Reply 4, in your last post. Unfortunately, I did not come up with another 8-hour, room temperature fermented PJ clone dough. The biggest problem with room temperature fermented doughs is variations in room temperature. For example, in Texas where I live, the room temperature in the summer can be quite high, as much as 82 degrees F, and that is with the oven preheated and the AC running. That means using a minuscule amount of yeast to compensate for the high room temperatures.

However, I might mention that I came up with a 12-hour room temperature fermented PJ clone dough that was an extension of the version described in Reply 24 but required no punchdown. As you can see at Reply 30 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59762#msg59762, even that version used a very small amount of yeast. But, fortunately, there is now a good solution available to you, whether you choose to use the PJ clone formulation as set forth in Reply 24 or Reply 30. And that is to use member Craig's yeast quantity prediction model as set forth in Reply 261 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.msg393271#msg393271

So, to use the above referenced chart, which you can click to enlarge, you should select the temperature you want to use and the number of hours you would like to ferment the dough. The intersection of the two values will lead you the amount of yeast you will want to use, whether it is ADY, IDY or cake yeast. Those quantities are at the top of the chart.

I should also mention that some of my PJ clone formulations called for dough ball weights for the 14" size of from 20-22 ounces or so. That is because I did not know at the time what dough ball weight PJ was actually using, and they treated that information as proprietary and would not tell me the actual weight. However, we later learned that the dough ball weight the PJ uses is around 20 ounces, give or take a fraction of an ounce. So, if you wish, you can use a 20-ounce dough ball weight in the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded-calculator.html, along with the bakers percents that I set forth.

Peter

Peter, I'm hoping you can help me with this.  I found some seemingly really great quality San Marzanos at Costco and I'm wondering if you think I can use these for your Papa John's clone sauce.  I'm worried about the added basil in the tomatoes (arg, why would they do that?) and added salt by the looks of it.  I'll put some pics up here from the can (very large can).

Edit: I guess I should have really put this in your sauce thread :)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 08:33:47 AM by pepapi »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1059 on: July 08, 2016, 09:13:53 AM »
Peter, I'm hoping you can help me with this.  I found some seemingly really great quality San Marzanos at Costco and I'm wondering if you think I can use these for your Papa John's clone sauce.  I'm worried about the added basil in the tomatoes (arg, why would they do that?) and added salt by the looks of it.  I'll put some pics up here from the can (very large can).
pepapi,

Papa John's uses fresh pack tomatoes as the base for its pizza sauce and those tomatoes are much different (much much sweeter and with a crushed tomato consistency) than the San Marzanos so the sauce with the Marzanos will taste a lot different. I don't know how much the basil leaf in the can of San Marzanos will affect the sauce but it may also add a slightly different taste since the PJ sauce contains dry basil. But none of these differences should deter you from trying the San Marzanos if you don't mind using the San Marzonos for a test on a PJ type pizza. But you may want to drain off some or all of the water in the can of San Marzanos so that you don't end up with a puddle in the middle of your pizza. And you will have to decide what herbs and spices to use and whether to add oil or sugar. What you are proposing to do is like someone using a Papa John's type pizza sauce on a Neapolitan style pizza. I have never seen that done.

Peter

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1060 on: July 12, 2016, 08:53:40 PM »
Guys, here is tonight's effort.  2 day clone of course.  Did a bit of testing for bottom crust and here's what I came up with.

10 minutes @ 500f with no convection on the 2nd bottom rack produced a dark brown bottom, too much for me.  This is the salami one pictured below.
2nd pizza was 500f WITH convection, on the same rack, for 9 minutes and it was bang on.  Unfortunately I don't have a pic of this one as I had to make a special delivery to a neighbor :)

Bonus pizza is just an old freezer dough I had sitting around, it was a Kenji NY one, from a month ago or so.  I was not expecting much and it was actually fine.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1061 on: July 20, 2016, 04:32:45 PM »
Papa John's is making changes to its products that it deems to be major:

http://www.businessinsider.com/papa-johns-chicken-raised-antibiotic-free-2016-7

Peter


Offline pepapi

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1062 on: July 26, 2016, 10:54:43 PM »
Made a couple more 2 day clone pizzas if anyone is interested.

First is a 3 cheese Tuscan: parm-reg, romano and mozza
2nd is a Genoa salami, basil, tomatoes and bocconcini

Baked at 500F on 2nd bottom rack with convection for 8-9

We loved them, next time I'd put the cheese on top of the salami though

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #1063 on: Today at 03:08:32 PM »
Made a couple more 2 day clone pizzas if anyone is interested.

...

We loved them, next time I'd put the cheese on top of the salami though

Looks good! Your comment reminded me that when I would occasionally order from PJ's back in 1999-2000, they put the toppings under the cheese. (At least the pepperoni.)