Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 270212 times)

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Offline HBolte

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #820 on: April 06, 2015, 06:55:58 PM »
Although it may not look like a PJ clone I used the formula in Reply #24, I intentionally made the rim wider. I used 250 grams of GFS Primo Gusto, High Gluten, bromated flour.

I did RTF for 4 hours, reballed then shaped after one more hour. It was quite elastic. I let it relax for ten minutes a couple of times but I was too hungry to wait longer so it was a bit smaller than intended.

The eggshell crust had the perfect crunch and the interior was great. The bottom was not as dark as the photo shows, it had the same light crunch.

After about making about 30 pies, this was my favorite! Thank you Pete!! I don't know if I need any other recipes...

Hans
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 07:56:01 PM by HBolte »
Hans

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #821 on: April 07, 2015, 10:56:44 AM »
Hans,

Thank you very much for posting your results. I always welcome feedback from the members to let me know if what I posted has value. I am also glad that you were happy with your results.

For the record, the link to the PJ clone dough formulation you used is Reply 24 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59357#msg59357

In rereading what I said in Reply 24 in relation to what you did, I suspect that your dough was elastic because it did not have enough total fermentation time or enough time between reballing and using. Depending on the room temperature, and also the formula hydration and the amount of oil used, it can often take a few to several hours after a reballing for the gluten matrix to relax again. I also noted that I posted Reply 24 in the month of July, which is usually the hottest or second hottest month of the year where I live in Texas. That would have meant a warmer room temperature and a fast rising, soft dough (both after the first rise and after reballing) that would have made the dough fairly easy to work with. I suspect that it was cooler where you are in Michigan. If you know in advance that you want to shorten the total time to make the dough, you could use warmer water or a bit more yeast, or maybe both.

Peter


Offline HBolte

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #822 on: April 07, 2015, 11:08:20 AM »
Thanks Peter, I'll plan ahead next time to give it more fermentation time. Because of the time constraint I used 95* water and 75* room but it still needed a bit more time.

Normally I don't keep left overs but this was so good I saved two slices. Reheated for breakfast this morning!
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 11:09:56 AM by HBolte »
Hans

Offline The Lord Of The Pizza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #823 on: April 07, 2015, 03:50:06 PM »
Pete, out of all the PJ Clone recipes you have developed, which would you consider the pinnacle.  My wife really wants this one and I am having a hard time deciding on which to use.  Your expert recommendation is needed.
Cooking can be a reflection of your approach to everything. Do the best that you can and if you burn the toast, do it again, right.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #824 on: April 07, 2015, 06:39:43 PM »
Pete, out of all the PJ Clone recipes you have developed, which would you consider the pinnacle.  My wife really wants this one and I am having a hard time deciding on which to use.  Your expert recommendation is needed.
The Lord of The Pizza,

Given the choice between (1) a PJ clone dough formulation that comes closest to what PJ does based on my research and analysis but is not the easiest to replicate in a home setting, or (2) a PJ clone dough formulation that comes reasonably close to what PJ does but is much easier to replicate in a home setting, which would you choose? Or maybe you would like one of each. ;D

Remember that we can never quite replicate in a home setting what PJ does because we won't have access to the flour that PJ uses (it is milled from a special strain of Kansas wheat exclusively for PJ) and a standard home oven is not a conveyor oven. Also, our home refrigerators cannot maintain temperatures like PJ's commissaries and refrigerated trucks that deliver fresh dough balls to most of its stores twice a week.

Peter

Offline HBolte

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #825 on: April 08, 2015, 12:38:01 PM »
After more careful reading of this thread I see that baking on the stone caused the dark bottom. Next week I'll use a screen!
Hans

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #826 on: April 08, 2015, 12:50:02 PM »
After more careful reading of this thread I see that baking on the stone caused the dark bottom. Next week I'll use a screen!
Hans,

This is a matter that comes up from time to time but some members have chosen to use a pizza stone instead of a screen. My advice to them is to closely monitor the bottom crust color development and be prepared to either pull the pizza sooner or raise the pizza to a higher oven position to escape the heat from the bottom heating coil (or its equivalent) but being careful as not to let the top of the pizza burn because of the increased top heat. I only used a screen for my experiments because I was trying to simulate what Papa John's does with its conveyor ovens.

Peter

Offline The Lord Of The Pizza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #827 on: April 08, 2015, 03:39:39 PM »
The Lord of The Pizza,

Given the choice between (1) a PJ clone dough formulation that comes closest to what PJ does based on my research and analysis but is not the easiest to replicate in a home setting, or (2) a PJ clone dough formulation that comes reasonably close to what PJ does but is much easier to replicate in a home setting, which would you choose? Or maybe you would like one of each. ;D

Remember that we can never quite replicate in a home setting what PJ does because we won't have access to the flour that PJ uses (it is milled from a special strain of Kansas wheat exclusively for PJ) and a standard home oven is not a conveyor oven. Also, our home refrigerators cannot maintain temperatures like PJ's commissaries and refrigerated trucks that deliver fresh dough balls to most of its stores twice a week.

Peter
Both, my friend, if its not too much to ask.  This is right up my alley.  I love to make nearly identical versions and then do blind taste tests.  This will be great fun and the pizza will be awesome!  I will do pics and everything!
Cooking can be a reflection of your approach to everything. Do the best that you can and if you burn the toast, do it again, right.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #828 on: April 08, 2015, 07:14:55 PM »
Both, my friend, if its not too much to ask.  This is right up my alley.  I love to make nearly identical versions and then do blind taste tests.  This will be great fun and the pizza will be awesome!  I will do pics and everything!
The Lord of the Pizza,

The harder of the two PJ clone dough formulations is the one given in Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58197#msg58197. Since I posted that particular formulation, I learned that PJ uses a dough ball weight of 20 ounces instead of 21 ounces. So, if you'd like, you can use the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded-calculator.html to adjust the amounts of ingredients. There were also changes in the amounts of sugar and oil and salt that I made based on information that was not available at the time I posted Reply 2 but I don't think the changes will be noticeable in the finished product.

The easier PJ clone dough formulation is the one at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217. That may well be the most popular PJ clone dough formulation in this thread. Its advantage is that it only takes two days to make the pizza, whereas the one in Reply 2 takes at least five days. You will also note from Edit 2 at the bottom of the page of Reply 20 that I provided a link to an updated version of the original PJ clone dough formulation in Reply 10. The updated version reflects the changes mentioned above. It's up to you which version you would like to use.

Peter

Offline HBolte

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #829 on: April 13, 2015, 01:23:22 PM »
Tried a two day ferment. Reply #20. It was not that great. Not sure what I did wrong but the crust was very much like a Wonder bread texture. The exterior was soft, cornicione was like white bread, tiny holes no chew at all.  I'll have to try again.

No reflection on Pete!

Hans


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #830 on: April 14, 2015, 09:45:05 AM »
Tried a two day ferment. Reply #20. It was not that great. Not sure what I did wrong but the crust was very much like a Wonder bread texture. The exterior was soft, cornicione was like white bread, tiny holes no chew at all.  I'll have to try again.

No reflection on Pete!
Hans,

I appreciate the feedback even if you did not care for the pizza.

If you'd care to give me the details about how you made the dough and pizza, including and brand of flour that you used, maybe I can determine what governed your results.

Peter

Offline HBolte

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #831 on: April 15, 2015, 10:34:13 AM »
Thanks Pete, I'll try one more time and let you know.
Hans

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #832 on: April 15, 2015, 11:25:58 AM »
Thanks Pete, I'll try one more time and let you know.
Hans,

There are a few things to keep in mind. First, you may want to use bread flour or better protein-wise, and also keep the kneading of the dough on the brief side, to the stage where the dough is slightly underkneaded. If the dough is overkneaded, it can take on the character of a bread dough (with substantial gluten development), and the crust can develop a breadlike character with small, tight alveoles of similar size and little in the way of openness of the crumb. Another point to keep in mind is that a dough with a lot of sugar and oil will produce a tender crust since the sugar will act to retain moisture (it is a hygroscopic substance) and the oil will act to reduce evaporation of the moisture in the dough. Tenderness of the crust goes with the territory at the amounts of sugar and oil you used. You might try using a slightly higher hydration and a longer bake at a lower oven temperature to dry out the crust, including making it crispier, so that it doesn't seem as breadlike. Keeping the rim on the small side might also mitigate a breadlike crust.

Peter

Offline David Esq.

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #833 on: April 15, 2015, 12:48:31 PM »
I suppose that to each pizza lover there is a different ideal for their pizza.  The other day, I was passing a Papa John's and decided to give it a go.  The crust was nice and tender but it definitely did not present me with a wow factor that would make me want to create it at home or go back for another slice. 

Now pizza hut... that is another story. :)