Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza

[Akuma]

Hi Pete,
Thank you so much for directing me to the exact post!
Yeah, I didn't use this when I working as a Pizza cook last time.
Cheers,
Akuma

[c0mpl3x]

Akuma,

In the U.S., that device is called a dough docker. As I understand it, at Papa John's the use of the dough docker is specified for all of its doughs.

To get an idea as to how dough dockers are used, see this post: Reply 5 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20742.msg206648/topicseen.html#msg206648.

Peter

pete, i'd like to interject some docker etiquette here for those that may be first reading this

dough dockers only real benefit is the popping of bubbles that will rise and disperse toppings making the pizza less than 'corporate picture perfect', and really have no advantage over hand popping bubbles other than speed.

also, docking the crust is a no-no unless you want a dense crust.   but, some people swear and live by dockers as an everyday tool.  to each their own

[Pete-zza]

c0mpl3x,

Since you are a former PJ employee who knows whereof he speaks, and knowing of your skills in pizza making, I value your opinion. I often wondered why PJ workers always docked their dough skins. I could see it for cracker-style or other thin style pizzas (like the Chicago thin style) but not for an American style pizza, of which the PJ pizzas are perhaps the best known representation. Since this thread was devoted to trying to replicate the PJ pizza, that is the reason why I docked the PJ clone doughs. Otherwise, I would not have thought to do so. It would be like docking a skin for a NY style pizza. It would be an alien thought that would never occur to me.

Peter

[Akuma]

Hi Pete/c0mpl3x,
I noticed this dough does not rise as much in the middle even without the dockers and my toppings are not dispersed, so does it mean it is not really necessary to use it?
by hand popping, do you mean by the pressing down action while we are pressing out the ring and flatten the surface?
Usually i press out the ring, then i will use knuckles to spread it out slightly before tossing it to get it to size.
thanks
Akuma

[SquirrelFlight]

In my experiments in making the laminate crust that DNA Dan brought to the forum, I found that docking the dough prevents the resulting pizza from turning into a large puff-pastry.  Sure you could to the same thing with a fork (or something similar); it's just easier with a docker - roll, roll, roll, done!

[PalePixie]

This is my first homemade pizza and my family thinks I'm Wonder Woman of the pizza world.     I'd like to thank Pete-zza for all of the work you've put into cloning the Papa John's.  Wow!  I've been making the 2-day version of the Papa John's clone and we think it's fantastic!   I've made it on the 3rd day and it's still wonderful.  It took me a few times to get the time/temperature perfected in my persnickety oven, but I think I've fine-tuned it.  Here are a few minor modifications I made:

1.  I use canola oil and Dakota Maid bread flour because it's what I have on hand.

2.  I have to use a water temperature of 90 degrees F to get the final dough temperature at about 81 degrees when I take it out of my Bosch Compact mixer.

3.  I've had some problems with getting the dough out of the bowl after it sits out of the fridge to warm up.  It's too soft for me to handle.  I'm guessing this is because I'm using Dakota Maid bread flour instead of King Arthur?   I found that if I put a piece of plastic (sprayed with Pam) on the bottom of the dough bowl and let it extend over the sides, then I can just lift the plastic to get the dough out without wrecking the shape.  Once I have it dusted, it's easy to work with.

4.  I have to use an oven temperature of 475 degrees with the screen on the second lowest rack for 8 minutes, then 1 1/2 minutes at the top rack under the broiler to get the top and bottom just right. (I burned the crust at 500 degrees.)

5.  I'm always two slices of pizza short for my family, so I ordered a 16 inch pizza screen.  I used the calculator to get the following dough ingredient amounts for one 16 inch pie using the 2-day method:

Flour (100%):    463.75 g  |  16.36 oz | 1.02 lbs
Water (56.5%):    262.02 g  |  9.24 oz | 0.58 lbs
IDY (0.28%):    1.3 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.43 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
Salt (01.75%):    8.12 g | 0.29 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.69 tsp | 0.56 tbsp
Canola Oil (7.3%):    33.85 g | 1.19 oz | 0.07 lbs | 7.45 tsp | 2.48 tbsp
Sugar (4.3%):    19.94 g | 0.7 oz | 0.04 lbs | 5 tsp | 1.67 tbsp
Total (170.13%):   788.98 g | 27.83 oz | 1.74 lbs | TF = 0.1384155

Thank you again! 
. 

[Chicago Bob]

This is my first homemade pizza and my family thinks I'm Wonder Woman of the pizza world.     I'd like to thank Pete-zza for all of the work you've put into cloning the Papa John's.  Wow!  I've been making the 2-day version of the Papa John's clone and we think it's fantastic!   I've made it on the 3rd day and it's still wonderful.  It took me a few times to get the time/temperature perfected in my persnickety oven, but I think I've fine-tuned it.  Here are a few minor modifications I made:

1.  I use canola oil and Dakota Maid bread flour because it's what I have on hand.

2.  I have to use a water temperature of 90 degrees F to get the final dough temperature at about 81 degrees when I take it out of my Bosch Compact mixer.

3.  I've had some problems with getting the dough out of the bowl after it sits out of the fridge to warm up.  It's too soft for me to handle.  I'm guessing this is because I'm using Dakota Maid bread flour instead of King Arthur?   I found that if I put a piece of plastic (sprayed with Pam) on the bottom of the dough bowl and let it extend over the sides, then I can just lift the plastic to get the dough out without wrecking the shape.  Once I have it dusted, it's easy to work with.

4.  I have to use an oven temperature of 475 degrees with the screen on the second lowest rack for 8 minutes, then 1 1/2 minutes at the top rack under the broiler to get the top and bottom just right. (I burned the crust at 500 degrees.)

5.  I'm always two slices of pizza short for my family, so I ordered a 16 inch pizza screen.  I used the calculator to get the following dough ingredient amounts for one 16 inch pie using the 2-day method:

Flour (100%):    463.75 g  |  16.36 oz | 1.02 lbs
Water (56.5%):    262.02 g  |  9.24 oz | 0.58 lbs
IDY (0.28%):    1.3 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.43 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
Salt (01.75%):    8.12 g | 0.29 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.69 tsp | 0.56 tbsp
Canola Oil (7.3%):    33.85 g | 1.19 oz | 0.07 lbs | 7.45 tsp | 2.48 tbsp
Sugar (4.3%):    19.94 g | 0.7 oz | 0.04 lbs | 5 tsp | 1.67 tbsp
Total (170.13%):   788.98 g | 27.83 oz | 1.74 lbs | TF = 0.1384155

Thank you again! 
.

Sounds like you've done your homework PalePixie. I'm just curious; if you and your family are enjoying your pizzamaking experience, why not get the King Arthur flour and give yourself all the help you can? Not available to you?

Bob

[Pete-zza]

PalePixie,

As best I can tell, the Dakota Maid bread flour has a protein content of 12.6% and is milled from spring wheat (https://www.ndmill.com/store/proddetail.cfm?CFID=1098078&CFTOKEN=18772456&ItemID=9&CategoryID=3). As I understand it, the wheat for the Dakota Mills flours is grown in North Dakota. For comparison purposes, the King Arthur bread flour (KABF) has a protein content of 12.7%. And, according to http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/king-arthur-unbleached-bread-flour-5-lb, the KABF is "milled from hard red spring wheat grown chiefly in the Dakotas". Since the Dakota Maid flour is a regional flour, is it possible that you live in the Dakotas somewhere? Either way, you can stick with the Dakota Maid bread flour if you wish, and especially if it is cheaper than the KABF. The Dakota Maid flour also has ascorbic acid, which the KABF does not. You can read about what the ascorbic acid does by looking at that entry in the forum's Pizza Glossary at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html#A.

As previously reported, Papa John's uses a proprietary high-protein flour that is milled exclusively for them. I estimate its protein content to be somewhere between 13-13.6%. The dough formulation you used was predicated on a higher protein content, somewhere around 14% (which I believe PJ used several years ago). In your case, if you find that the dough is a bit too wet or damp, you can lower either the hydration value or the amount of oil. Also, for the 16" size pizza you want to make you can use a 26-26.25-ounce dough ball weight in the expanded dough calculating tool or, alternatively, a thickness factor of 0.12992-0.133317. I mention these changes since we discovered some time ago (after I posted the version of the PJ clone dough you used) that PJ was using a slightly smaller dough ball weight than I calculated from my analysis and experiments in my standard electric home oven.

It looks like you found a good way to get the dough out of its storage container. My practice is to remove the dough ball from its storage container as soon as I take it out of the refrigerator. I dip the dough ball into flour and then put it on my work surface and cover it with a sheet of plastic wrap so that a "skin" doesn't form on the dough ball. Using this method, the dough ball tempers faster than if it is kept in the storage container because the storage container (which is usually quite cold) has to warm up before the dough ball can.

I wish you continued good success with your PJ clones.

Peter

[jsperk]

Thanks for the recipes. They always turn out so tasty. Here was my try at same day recipe. I still have a ways to go on my pizza making skills.

[Chicago Bob]

Thanks for the recipes. They always turn out so tasty. Here was my try at same day recipe. I still have a ways to go on my pizza making skills.

That pizza looks great J...bottom is awesome! 

[PalePixie]

I'm just curious; if you and your family are enjoying your pizzamaking experience, why not get the King Arthur flour and give yourself all the help you can? Not available to you?

Bob

I have nothing against King Arthur.  I like using Dakota Maid because it's produced by my family in my back yard. I live in North Dakota.  I would have switched to King Arthur if it would have been necessary. 

Peter: thank you for your suggestions on the weight of the dough for the 16 inch pizza.  You are wealth of information. 

[Chicago Bob]

I have nothing against King Arthur.  I like using Dakota Maid because it's produced by my family in my back yard. I live in North Dakota.  I would have switched to King Arthur if it would have been necessary. 

Peter: thank you for your suggestions on the weight of the dough for the 16 inch pizza.  You are wealth of information.

Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood your statement... "I use canola oil and Dakota Maid bread flour because it's what I have on hand."
Didn't know this flower is produced by your family and thus it must always be "on hand".

Bob

[jsperk]

That pizza looks great J...bottom is awesome! 

Thanks Bob. I really like the Emile Henry stone.  Once I get my steel plate cut down to size I will experiment more with that.