Author Topic: 48 hour dough problem  (Read 933 times)

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Offline bakerbill

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48 hour dough problem
« on: May 23, 2009, 09:34:43 AM »
I have been using "Tony's Pizza Dough" in Pizza by Diane Morgan and Tony Gemignani with good success with a 24 hour refrigeration. However, I am now in a situation when I need to refrigerate for 48 hours and am less satisfied with the result. The dough seems less robust. What can I do to tweak the recipe?

bakerbill


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 48 hour dough problem
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2009, 09:56:01 AM »
bakerbill,

Can you describe more fully what you mean by "less robust", and if and how it manifests itself in the finished crust?

Also, can you confirm that the dough recipe you are using is the following one?:

Yield
Makes dough for 2 pizzas (14 in. each)

Ingredients
1  package (2 1/4 teaspoons) active dry yeast
1  cup  warm (90 to 100) water
1  cup  ice-cold water
1  tablespoon  sugar
1  tablespoon  salt
2  tablespoons  olive oil
About 5 1/4 to 5 1/2 cups bread flour

Preparation
1. In a small bowl, with a fork, stir yeast into warm water. Let stand until yeast is dissolved, about 5 minutes.

2. In another bowl, mix cold water, sugar, and salt until dissolved; stir in oil.

3. If using a heavy-duty standing mixer with a dough hook, place 5 1/4 cups flour in a large bowl. Stir the yeast mixture again to blend, then add to flour along with cold-water mixture. Beat with the dough hook on low speed until mixture is smooth and not sticky, 14 to 16 minutes. (Don't let dough climb up into motor drive; if it threatens to, stop mixer and push dough down. If machine labors, stop and wait a few minutes for motor to cool, then resume.) If dough remains sticky, add 2 more tablespoons flour and beat 2 minutes longer; if still sticky, add another 1 to 2 tablespoons flour and beat until nonsticky and smooth.

If using a heavy-duty food processor, make dough in two batches, using half the ingredients for each: Place 2 3/4 cups flour, half the yeast mixture, and half the cold-water mixture in processor bowl and whirl until dough is smooth and elastic, about 2 minutes. (If machine stops, wait a few minutes, then resume.) If dough is still sticky, add 2 to 3 more teaspoons flour and whirl until dough is smooth. Transfer to a floured board.

4. Scrape dough onto a lightly floured board; cut in half (omit cutting if using processor). With floured hands, pick up one portion of dough; pull opposite edges together toward center and pinch to seal. Repeat all around circumference to form a smooth, tight ball. Place each portion in a 1-gallon plastic bag. Squeeze out air and seal bag, allowing enough room for ball to double. Chill at least 10 hours or up to 2 days.

Tossing tips:

The setup: Remove your watch and any rings you're wearing. Place the dough slightly off-center on the palm of your throwing hand (generally, if you're comfortable spinning the dough counterclockwise, use your right hand; for spinning clockwise, use your left). Make a fist with the other hand, knuckle side up, and place it under the dough, beside your throwing hand, to support the other side. Hold the dough parallel to the ground, between your waist and chest.

The release: Turn the palm of your throwing hand toward you, then quickly twist your hand outward and up to launch the dough into the air. Catch the round with both fists, knuckles up. Toss with fast, deliberate moves; if you're tentative and slow, the dough will be more likely to flop over or droop. Don't get discouraged! In our test kitchen, a little practice produced amazing results (and a lot of laughs).

Tony Gemignani, Sunset, MARCH 2004


Peter
« Last Edit: May 23, 2009, 10:07:05 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline bakerbill

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Re: 48 hour dough problem
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2009, 02:59:16 PM »
Peter,

In both the 24 and 48 hour versions, I left out the olive oil as I found it made for a crisper crust. Otherwise I followed the recipe as indicated. The 48 hour version was harder to handle-more fragile- was less crispy and flavorful and did not raise as much in the oven. 

bakerbill

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 48 hour dough problem
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2009, 04:11:19 PM »
bakerbill,

The instructions for the recipe you used from the Morgan-Gemignani cookbook say (at page 89) that the dough made from the recipe should be divided in two equal pieces of 22 ounces. That suggests a total dough weight of 44 ounces. I took that number and backed out the oil, which yielded a total dough weight of 43.04762 ounces. I also made an assumption that the weight of water was 8.1 ounces per cup, or a total of 16.2 ounces. The actual amount may be higher or lower simply because we don't know how accurately the water is measured out. I then converted the rest of the ingredients, minus the oil, to weights and, using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, came up with the following dough formulation for the version of the recipe you used:

Flour (100%):
Water (63.3181%):
ADY (0.97705%):
Salt (2.30847%):
Sugar (1.6489%):
Total (168.25252%):
725.34 g  |  25.59 oz | 1.6 lbs (5 c. + 3 T. based on using King Arthur bread flour and the "Medium" method of flour measurement)
459.27 g  |  16.2 oz | 1.01 lbs (2 c. water based on 8.1 oz./cup)
7.09 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.87 tsp | 0.62 tbsp
16.74 g | 0.59 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3 tsp | 1 tbsp
11.96 g | 0.42 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3 tsp | 1 tbsp
1220.4 g | 43.05 oz | 2.69 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Corresponds to a nominal thickness factor = 0.1398213 (for a 14" pizza); no bowl residue compensation

From the above table, a single dough ball would weigh 21.52 ounces. That is for a 14" pizza. On that basis, I calculated a thickness factor of 0.1398213. That value suggests a fairly thick crust. Is that what you experienced?

I notice also that the yeast (ADY) is used at a fairly high value, just under 1%. Along with a hydration of a bit over 63% and the use of one cup of warm water (90-100 degrees F) to rehydrate the ADY, I can see how it might be difficult for the dough to make it out to 48 hours of cold fermentation, despite the fact that the instructions say that the dough can be held up to 48 hours of cold fermentation. If it is also warm where you live, that could also speed up the fermentation. I wouldn't be surprised if your dough was on the verge of overfermenting or overproofing after 48 hours. If that was the case, the dough would typically be on the wet or damp side and quite extensible and hard to handle without tears forming (although it may not be as pronounced in your case with a thick dough). But for the sugar, at about 1.65% in your case, the crust could be light in color. A reduced oven spring, and a chewy crust are common symptoms of overfermentation. By any chance, was the other cup of water ice cold as called for in the instructions for the recipe and did you measure the finished dough temperature?

Whether or not you experienced the above symptoms, what you might consider next time is reducing the amount of yeast (ADY) and using much less warm water to rehydrate the ADY. Ideally, you would want to use water at temperatures to yield a finished dough temperature of around 70-75 degrees F. You shouldn't need more than 1/4 cup of warm water to rehydrate the ADY. It's hard to be precise on the amount of ADY to use next time, but I think I would cut it back by half, and go from there. If you proceed along the above lines, I hope you will let us know if the changes work out for you.

For those who might be interested in the above dough formulation with the oil included, for two 22-oz. dough balls, this is what I get:

Flour (100%):
Water (63.3181%):
ADY (0.97705%):
Salt (2.30847%):
Olive Oil (3.7224%):
Sugar (1.6489%):
Total (171.97492%):
725.34 g  |  25.59 oz | 1.6 lbs (5 c. + 3 T. based on using King Arthur bread flour and the "Medium" method of flour measurement)
459.27 g  |  16.2 oz | 1.01 lbs (2 c. water based on 8.1 oz./cup)
7.09 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.87 tsp | 0.62 tbsp
16.74 g | 0.59 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3 tsp | 1 tbsp
27 g | 0.95 oz | 0.06 lbs | 6 tsp | 2 tbsp
11.96 g | 0.42 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3 tsp | 1 tbsp
1247.4 g | 44 oz | 2.75 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Corresponds to a nominal thickness factor of 0.1429147 (for a 14" pizza); no bowl residue compensation

Peter


Offline bakerbill

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Re: 48 hour dough problem
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2009, 08:18:00 PM »
Peter,

You have given me a lot to think about and I suspect you are right about the over fermentation. I plan to make the pizzas again on June 2 with baking on June 4 and will let you know.  Thanks for all the trouble you have gone to to analyze the recipe. Wouldn't it be great if all recipe books listed ingredients by weight in terms of grams?  I find it so much simpler.

bakerbill