Author Topic: dividing dough balls video  (Read 3884 times)

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Offline andreguidon

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dividing dough balls video
« on: July 11, 2009, 11:25:50 AM »


look how wet the dough is !
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Offline canadianbacon

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 01:31:06 PM »
I'd almost say the entire piece of dough he's making balls from is covered with oil, if it were not, there's no way that density of dough
would not stick to his hands.

Perhaps they use this consistency because of the oven they use, - perhaps the oven removes a large percentage of moisture while baking, so they
start off with a very moist dough to beging with.

Very interesting though, and he makes perfect dough balls.  It would be more interesting seeing him get the dough ball into the final pizza shape, and see how
easily he can do it.




look how wet the dough is !
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Offline andreguidon

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 03:08:26 PM »
i think thats marco (pizzanapoletana), cause theres a video o him doing the same thing.... , but the dough is not that wet... maybe some oil on the hands, or even water ??
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Infoodel

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 03:37:51 PM »
The dough looks pretty standard to me. I'd guess 55-60% hydration (no way of telling for sure).
It looks well developed and the shaping is consistent with what I understand to be the traditional 'neapolitan style' (tuck, pull smooth surface tight by squeezing and pinch - NO rolling of the dough on the work top).
This shaping method creates smooth dough balls without over-developing the dough. Just enough tension on the outside smooth surface of the dough ball, which allows for an even rise and leaves the ball easy to shape later on into pizzas (extensibility over elasticity).
It's often done straight after mixing the dough (allowing a 5-10 minute rest) for a same-day rise.
The moisture may be a light sprinkling of water (or oil? doubtful) to prevent dough sticking to the hands and work top.

Toby
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 04:00:59 PM by Infoodel »

Offline scpizza

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 04:12:11 PM »
On the contrary, I'd guess that's a 65% dough.  Highly hydrated dough will have that sheen and taffy-like consistency after its initial rise.  There is no oil nor water here, not even bench flour.  The reason there is not more dough sticking to his hands is his masterful handling.  Whoever this badass dude is, I'd like to meet him.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 04:19:26 PM by scpizza »

Infoodel

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 04:19:37 PM »
On the contrary, I'd guess that's a 65% dough.  Highly hydrated dough will have that sheen and taffy-like consistency after its initial rise.  There is no oil nor water here.  The reason there is not more dough sticking to his hands is his masterful handling.  Whoever this badass dude is, I'd like to meet him.

It may well be 65%, however I don't think one could say for sure it had an initial rise...I'd personally guess not...but that's just me. Dough of that hydration should have a fairly 'taffy like consistency' (assuming it's well developed) straight after mixing.
Handling a 65% hydration dough without some stickage would be more than masterful - it'd be miraculous - not impossible though. Badass is right!
 

Toby
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 04:26:51 PM by Infoodel »

Offline David

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2009, 01:05:44 AM »
i think thats marco (pizzanapoletana), cause theres a video o him doing the same thing.... , but the dough is not that wet... maybe some oil on the hands, or even water ??
I believe that the pizzanapoletana on You Tube has been confirmed not to be Marco.
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Offline scpizza

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2009, 10:03:53 AM »
It may well be 65%, however I don't think one could say for sure it had an initial rise...I'd personally guess not...but that's just me. Dough of that hydration should have a fairly 'taffy like consistency' (assuming it's well developed) straight after mixing.
I have never observed that consistency nor sheen right after mixing, regardless of hand or fork mixing or degree of gluten development.  I've found it takes some hours of rest for the dough to take on that widespread eveness of gluten knitting (note how he shows it off by pulling not just short but very long, thick strands).

Ditto on the sheen of hydration.  Newly mixed high-hydration doughs look wet and feel wet.  They don't have the lustrous sheen yet tacky feel of a rested high-hydration dough that has fully accepted and integrated all the water into its makeup.

However, I would agree yeast action is not a factor.

Offline andreguidon

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2009, 10:12:35 AM »
you are right scpizza, it like a glow, because very wet dough sticks allot....
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Infoodel

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2009, 01:06:22 PM »
I realise my observations re: 'sheen' may have more to do with the way I typically handle mixing 65+% hydration dough than anything. I almost always use a combination of 20 minute rests + short kneading.  The dough at the end of the process always has a 'sheen' on it. A straight mix/knead either by hand or machine would not necessarily result in dough of the same appearance - I stand corrected. My own mixing technique somewhat clouded my 'general' opinion there.

Toby



Offline s00da

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2009, 04:29:57 PM »
Anyone knows how to do this balling technique? My eyes seem to have a low frame rate  ;D I can't see what he's doing.

Offline scott r

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2009, 12:20:48 AM »
that doesn't look like marco.


Sc,   I have seen a sheen like that on dough coming straight out of a bosch mixer.  (not that I think that is what was used for the dough in the video)

Offline scpizza

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2009, 09:58:07 AM »
Sc,   I have seen a sheen like that on dough coming straight out of a bosch mixer.

Really?  I've never seen that even from the Santos.  I've always assumed it just takes time for full, even saturation to result at the molecular level.

This is the home Bosch Universal Mixer with the bolt-on blender and everything?!?  When I look at video of that high speed dough beater flailing the dough around that wobbly plastic bowl, I just feel skepticism that anything good could come out of it.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 10:17:36 AM by scpizza »

Offline David

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2009, 10:36:25 AM »
Although it's hard to tell from the video,my guess is that he covered his dough with some oil and that has created the sheenThe fact that he is using no bench flour at all, he is working alone,and his dough is not covered with either a damp cloth or plastic, all in my mind reinforces that.I have seen the dough being divided and shaped in Naples by the most well known Pizzaioli in the city and they use a lot of bench flour.
Regards,
David

BTW I've seen the results of Scott using a Bosch and was well impressed.Can't comment on his molecular levels though - that's beyond me?
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Offline David

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2009, 11:32:12 AM »

Sent to: David on: Today at 10:59:22 AM from scpizza




I'd bet you money that's not the case.

I've never seen anyone dump or spray oil on top of already mixed dough.  It would turn into a slimy half-mixed mess the moment it was handled.  Also note, his hands do not glisten with residual oil and nor does the counter.  In fact the dough adheres quite firmly to the counter when he pulls the strands in the air - if oiled it would not.

I know its hard to believe but highly-hydrated, properly mixed dough does look and handle like that.





Here are some photos of the dough a friend of mine has produced and used in a commercial pizeria in Italy.He produces hundreds of beautiful pizzas.The bulk dough is oiled as I trust the jpeg shows.
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Offline David

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2009, 11:34:08 AM »
Hopefully this supports my comments.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 11:38:42 AM by David »
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Offline David

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2009, 11:34:57 AM »
pan...
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 11:37:43 AM by David »
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Offline David

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2009, 11:39:18 AM »
marg..
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Offline scpizza

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2009, 01:06:38 PM »
I PM'd you to avert any belaboring of the matter in the forum but since you reposted my PM here, I'll say I still believe the dough in the video has no oil added on top.  On my good days I've achieved Neapolitan doughs that look like that - in fact I may make one up and take some pictures to illustrate the phenomenon.

This picture of your friend's commercial operation slathering olive oil on the dough mass proves it is indeed being done by at least some pizzeria operators.  I will say that dough does not look like and in fact cannot be true Neapolitan dough which necessarily excludes the use of oil in or on the dough.  Further, I would hazard a guess that those balls are shaped with table rolling so the oil remains on the outside of the hunk of dough.

By contrast, with the way the dough in the video is shaped, any added layer of oil would inhibit self-adherence of the newly formed ball after it is twisted, rolled, and tucked in on itself.  That would result in a cinnamon-roll like glob with internal irregularities.  Neapolitan dough balls are sensitive to this problem which is why the use of much bench flour and/or poor ball forming techniques show up as weak spots down the line when the skin is formed.

In addition to the absence of signs of oil on the counter or on his hands and the tight adherence of dough to the counter, looking carefully (in HQ mode), the sheen is even and omnipresent even in the gullies of newly stretched out dough, between portions that are torn off, and on regions that are newly exposed to the surface.

Also it is worth noting the camera angle is positioned from the side to highlight the sheen on the surface.  If viewed straight on this sheen would be less pronounced.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 01:08:26 PM by scpizza »

Offline David

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Re: dividing dough balls video
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2009, 02:39:26 PM »
  I will say that dough does not look like and in fact cannot be true Neapolitan dough which necessarily excludes the use of oil in or on the dough.

Although the original poster put the link on the Neapolitan board,I did not assume that it was in fact a Neapolitan dough or pizzaiolo.

I posted your message as I thought the discussion would benefit all members of the Forum and not just me.I rarely reply personally to unsolicited email or messages.
Regards,
David
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