Pizza Paradiso - Wash DC

[Arthur]

OK, my disclaimer must be noted as a New York city pizza snob. 

With that said....

I went to Pizza Paradiso in washington DC recently and was so dissappointed I have to post this message.   I now live near washington dc and occassionally go into "town" for pizza.  I've been to pizza paradiso before as well as 2 amy's - both highly regarded pizza places in DC (2 amy's being official "DOC").   I have to say that both are really just so-so.  They certainly don't come close to Totonno's, Nick's and even most of the street pizza in New York.   

...but my last visit to pizza paradiso was just plain BAD.  I'm not sure if it's because my own pizza is getting better and I'm becoming more attune to ingredients, but the dough this time was...was like eating a NY bialy (for those who know what that is).   A bialy is actually terrific, but not as the base for pizza!  The sauce was average at best and my black olives on the pizza weren't actually black olives!! (the manager said "oh, we decided to use xxx olives instead - we found them to have a better flavor)- WHAT! change the menu then.  These fru-fru pizza places drive me crazy.

Plus they charge $15 for a 14" pizza.   Even the world famous difara's only charges $15 for his hand crafted 18".
 I guess when there is no competition there's nothing to worry about.

[D.C. Pizza Master]

OK, my disclaimer must be noted as a New York city pizza snob. 

With that said....

I went to Pizza Paradiso in washington DC recently and was so dissappointed I have to post this message.   I now live near washington dc and occassionally go into "town" for pizza.  I've been to pizza paradiso before as well as 2 amy's - both highly regarded pizza places in DC (2 amy's being official "DOC").   I have to say that both are really just so-so.  They certainly don't come close to Totonno's, Nick's and even most of the street pizza in New York.   

...but my last visit to pizza paradiso was just plain BAD.  I'm not sure if it's because my own pizza is getting better and I'm becoming more attune to ingredients, but the dough this time was...was like eating a NY bialy (for those who know what that is).   A bialy is actually terrific, but not as the base for pizza!  The sauce was average at best and my black olives on the pizza weren't actually black olives!! (the manager said "oh, we decided to use xxx olives instead - we found them to have a better flavor)- WHAT! change the menu then.  These fru-fru pizza places drive me crazy.

Plus they charge $15 for a 14" pizza.   Even the world famous difara's only charges $15 for his hand crafted 18".
 I guess when there is no competition there's nothing to worry about.

come to Sorriso

its not new york style but its italian style if thats what your looking for

[Arthur]

thanks.  what is italian style?  '00' flour? 

[D.C. Pizza Master]

thanks.  what is italian style?  '00' flour? 

pizza italiana has a thinner crust then New York pizza and the pizza is healthier for you because hi gluten flour is not used

[Arthur]

Thanks for the info...I'm posting something (elsewhere on the site) on your comments on "healthier for you because hi gluten flour is not used".....

[b]

i agree with you on pizza paradiso but i have to disagree on 2 amy's.  i actually don't see how you can possibly be right when they just got voted one of the 10 best pizza places in the entire u.s.  it's definitely not new york style, but italian.  i'm guessing you haven't spent time in italy or you would probably love their pizza as much as everyone else. 

[Arthur]

i agree with you on pizza paradiso but i have to disagree on 2 amy's.  i actually don't see how you can possibly be right when they just got voted one of the 10 best pizza places in the entire u.s.  it's definitely not new york style, but italian.  i'm guessing you haven't spent time in italy or you would probably love their pizza as much as everyone else. 

As many people on this board have touched upon before - and I agree with them - taste is in the mouth of the beholder.  Just because I grew up in Brooklyn, drank the water  , ate at some of the most notable pizza places in NY, have been to italy several times, had an italian grandmother, been making pizza for 15 years, doesn't make me an expert on what great pizza is.  Obviously everyone has a different opinion - even the people who voted for 2 amys at one of the 10 best.

All I can say is that I am searching for the best pizza and I know that I will never find it - similar to searching for the meaning of life IMHO.   What I have found is that certain pizza's contain what I love in pizza.   

It could be the dough - looking for that perfectly cooked crust that taste like candy; I'm able to fold it; some coal or wood burning flavor; thin, but not flopped over;
It could be the sauce - the freshness, the sweetness without tasting like sugar
It could be the cheese - just barely there, but so fresh without a taste, but yet you still love the taste- don't ask me about this one.
It could be the artistry - the master pizzaiola; like watching a great painter.
It could be the atmosphere - just like wine compliments food; for me he atmosphere compliments pizza.  Just like pizza in general, the atmosphere brings me back to a simpler time and memories of brooklyn "when brooklyn was the world".

Given all of those, I have found certain places like L&B, Totonnos, Patsy's, etc..each have that special something according to my list above....for me 2 amy's did not have that.    Now I do happen to like the use of high gluten flour over '00' but that's just a personal taste.   In my years living near DC there's always pizza and bagel places opening every now and then claiming to be equal to NY or better (and in the case of 2 amy's, official DOC - which by the way is a marketing scam - IMHO  ), and I do get excited about these places and tend to try them out, but I have not found one that lived up to its talk.


I honestly believe - although I haven't tried any yet  - that several of the pizza making masters on this board have better pizza than 2 amy's.   Now again, taste is in the mouth of the beholder.

[pftaylor]

Arthur,
Well said.

I firmly believe pizza making is half passion and half science. You are apparently slightly more in the passion camp (like myself). I tend to embrace the entire experience of a pizza joint. It seems to bring inner peace somehow. Having said that, at least seventy percent of the experience better be killer taste - otherwise I could care less about the rest.

Point in case, DiFara vs. Patsy's. I actually preferred the Patsy's taste to DiFara's simply because of the crust. And the crust couldn't have been much more flawed than the day I was there. Full of holes, limp. You name it, it violated the quality standard. Yet somehow the taste was wonderful. The second I tasted Dom's pie, I recognized the Caputo flour. It is unmistakable. Even though his Caputo is diluted somewhat. The taste just insn't there for me. However, Caputo with a wood burning oven (and perhaps a biga) is a perfect match. One which I intend to experience in my own backyard one day.

I too prefer the taste of American high gluten flours over Italian 00's. I'm not sure why exactly. Increasingly I am coming to the conclusion I simply don't have the tools to coax out the hidden treasure inside a flour like Caputo Pizzeria blue label. I'm sure its in there but without the proper wood burning oven I'm certain I will never experience what is truly possible.

Once my wood burning oven project is complete though look out.

[D.C. Pizza Master]

i agree with you on pizza paradiso but i have to disagree on 2 amy's.  i actually don't see how you can possibly be right when they just got voted one of the 10 best pizza places in the entire u.s.  it's definitely not new york style, but italian.  i'm guessing you haven't spent time in italy or you would probably love their pizza as much as everyone else. 

who are these people that do the voting anyhow? the people who do the voting should be real italians who know what they are talking about...not some guy from USA today who cant even make a pizza at home

2 amy's makes neopolitan pizza just to let you know

[Davydd]

i agree with you on pizza paradiso but i have to disagree on 2 amy's.  i actually don't see how you can possibly be right when they just got voted one of the 10 best pizza places in the entire u.s.  it's definitely not new york style, but italian.  i'm guessing you haven't spent time in italy or you would probably love their pizza as much as everyone else. 

Never trust a national 10 best of anything. It would be nothing more than a name recognition popularity contest and if conducted for beers, Bud Light would come out best and we all should know better about that. 

As an out of towner from Minnesota I did go to Pizzeria Paradiso Christmas Eve day and then 2 Amys the day after Christmas. Pizzeria Paradiso won hands down for me. The pizza was better, the ambience was better, the neighborhood was cooler and the beer selection was better at Pizzeria Paradiso. 2 Amys has to be at least three times as big as Pizzeria Paradiso but they both used one wood fired oven. Quality would have to suffer with the larger restaurant. My pizza at 2 Amys was paper thin, soggy and uncooked in the middle. You could not eat the pizza by picking it up.

[Jackitup]

Davydd,
Have you tried Savoys Pizza in St Paul or Old World Pizza in Inver Grove Heights? They are mine and my wifes 2 favorite pizzas outside of home. I'm in Hastings and not far from you. Your website looked awesome on the pork tenderloin sandwiches as did you handsome family photos. Looks like you gotten around a bit.
Happy new Year,
Jon

[Davydd]

Jon,

Being in the far western suburbs of Minneapolis (Lake Minnetonka) going to Inver Grove Heights or St. Paul for pizza is out of the question for me. I do plan soon to try some of the Minneapolis spots that so many people seem to brag about such as Pizza Nea, Punch, Pizza Luce. Our local pizza spot is Joey Nova's Delicatessen & Pizzeria in Tonka Bay.

As a visitor to DC I researched some interesting articles about what people thought about pizza there and honed in on Pizzeria Paradiso and 2 Amys to try. My conclusion is lemming like word of mouth by people that really don't know, status seekers believing phony Best 10 ratings, the certification gambit and the fact that 2 Amys is newer is why people give the nod to them. It certainly wasn't the pizza. 2 Amys was not that enjoyable an experience compared to Pizzeria Paradiso and we got there with minimal waiting time for a seat.

[Jackitup]

I can speak to a couple of them, Punch's was OK, wife didn't care for it, but she doesn't understand the different styles of pie as much as me so she didn't appreciate it as it was, rather compared it to Savoy's and I said that's kinda apples to frisbees. It's a thin, puffy not a lot of topping, Neapolitan type pizza. Pizza Luce, in my opinion is overrated. Sauce has a certain flavor I don't like and their crust is often burnt tasting. The nurses at Children's Hosp in Mpls where I work order them from time to time. The other ones I'll have to get out and try for muself, haven't had them yet.
Have a Happy New Year.
Jon