Author Topic: Which of these flours are best for the PJ Clone Pizza  (Read 826 times)

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Offline pizzaaja

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Which of these flours are best for the PJ Clone Pizza
« on: July 20, 2009, 02:29:01 AM »
Hello guys,

I'm going to try and make the PJ Clone pizza by Pete, but the problem is, I can't find any of those flours suggested in the site. I've found some flours with similar protein content as the one recommended by Pete (KABF), but there are other specifications which I don't really understand. Please recommend which of these flours are best suited for the recipe:

1. "Special Flour for Premium Bread"

Moisture (%) max. 14.3
Protein (%)(Nx5.7)(db) 14.0 - 15.0
Ash (%)(db) max. 0.55
Falling Number (sec.) min. 300
Glutten Wet (%) min. 34
Water Absorption (%) 62 - 64
 
2. " Premium Flour for all kinds of bread and noodles"

Moisture (%) max. 14.3
Protein (%)(Nx5.7)(db) 13.0 - 14.0
Ash (%)(db) max. 0.64
Falling Number (sec.) min. 300
Glutten Wet (%) 32 - 36
Water Absorption (%) 60 - 64
 
3. "Flour for all kinds of food like brownies, pound cake, and etc"
 
Moisture (%) max. 14.3
Protein (%)(Nx5.7)(db) 12.0 - 13.0
Ash (%)(db) max. 0.64
Falling Number (sec.) min. 300
Glutten Wet (%) 28 - 32
Water Absorption (%) 59 - 63

4. "Economical Flour for all kinds of bread"
 
Moisture (%) max. 14.3
Protein (%)(Nx5.7)(db) 12.5 - 13.0
Ash (%)(db) max. 0.69
Falling Number (sec.) min. 300
Glutten Wet (%) 30 - 33
Water Absorption (%) 60 - 62
 
 
 
Thanks in advance guys
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




Online Pete-zza

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Re: Which of these flours are best for the PJ Clone Pizza
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2009, 10:41:24 AM »
Mike,

Since the King Arthur flours are widely available in the U.S., I can only conclude that you live outside of the U.S. Also, the specs you posted suggest that the flours you listed may not be malted, as by the addition of amylase enzyme in some form, such as dry diastatic barley malt.

For comparison purposes, the specs for the King Arthur flours are given at
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/specifications-conventional-bakery-flour.html. Of the flours listed there, the Sir Lancelot and Special flours woul be the best choices for a Papa John's clone dough. Another flour that is comparable in some respects to the King Arthur Special bread flour is the General Mills Better for Bread (Harvest King) bread flour. The specs for that flour are given at http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/Flour_SpecSheet/HarvestKing53722.doc

Comparing the abovereferenced specs with the specs you provided, one of the major differences is the falling number. The falling number is an indication of the degree of amylase enzyme activity. A high falling number, as in the specs you provided, suggests low amylase enzyme activity; a low falling number suggest a higher degree of amylase enzyme activity. For a discussion of falling numbers, see the following excerpt from http://www.cooknaturally.com/detailed/detailed.html:

The falling number test determines the alpha-amylase activity of a flour sample.  The test entails heating measured amounts of water and flour in a special tube.  The tube is placed in a boiling water bath and stirred with a plunger until the sample is gelatinized.  Then the plunger is placed on the surface of the sample, and the time that it takes the plunger to sink to the bottom of the tube is recorded.  Depending on the alpha-amylase activity, the degradation of the starch paste will vary.  The higher the alpha-amylase activity, the lower the number, and vice versa.  Typically the falling number has to be adjusted through the addition of diastatic malt, or fungal amylase.  Such adjustments are usually done at the mill, along with the enrichment package.  Our organic flours are un-malted, so they have high falling numbers, generally in excess of four hundred. Malted bread flours have falling numbers of: 250-290.  Generally the baker will find that fermentation progresses more rapidly as falling numbers become lower.

I am not a flour expert, but based on the information you provided, I would be inclined to use either flour #1 or flour #2. Also, to get closer to the King Arthur flours, I would add some dry diastatic barley malt in order to increase the amylase enzyme activity. That is what is done for most flours milled in the U.S. To start, I would use around 0.5% diastatic barley malt as a percent of flour weight. Since diastatic malt works on damaged starch, I would also be inclined to run the flour through my food processor to hopefully increase the degree of damaged starch. Even if I did not have any diastatic malt available to me, I think I would still run the flour through my food processor. I don't know where you flour comes from, but many flours outside of the U.S. have less damaged starch than those milled from wheat in the U.S. In your case, you might even run two tests, one using diastatic malt and one without the diastatic malt.

For a much more thorough and comprehensive discussion of the use of malt in flours, see the article at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8308.0.html. In reading this article, you should keep in mind that nondiastatic malts are not the same as diastatic malts.

Please let us know how things work out.

Peter


Offline pizzaaja

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Re: Which of these flours are best for the PJ Clone Pizza
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2009, 01:43:18 PM »
Thanks, Pete as always you seem to know your stuff and I found your posts really helpful.
From skimming the links you provided, it seems that to get closer to KABF/KASL I should add diastatic barley malt, which also help the yeast ferment faster.
I'm not sure if I can find diastatic barley malt in my country (yes, I live in Southeast Asia now) so I'll probably use the no.1 or 2 flours if I can't find it.
In terms of gluten content, how similar do you think the King Arthur flours are to the no.1 and no.2 flours (are the no.1 and 2 flours considered high-gluten flours)? I'd do more reading tommorow on the barley malt, and I'd let you know my progress once I find all the ingredients I need.
Mike

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Re: Which of these flours are best for the PJ Clone Pizza
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2009, 02:31:06 PM »
Mike,

I was looking primarily at the wet gluten numbers as representations of protein content, with the higher protein values being more suitable for a Papa John's clone dough. By way of background and explanation, "wet gluten" is a way of specifying the protein content of a flour. It is more common outside of the U.S., whereas in the U.S. “dry gluten” is the more common way of specifying the protein content of a flour. As I understand the “wet gluten” process, a sample of dough is prepared and washed in a solution (such as a sodium chloride solution) to separate the glutenin and gliadin proteins. I believe that the amount of these proteins, stated as a percent, represent the wet gluten value. The dry gluten value would represent the value when the wet gluten is dried, as by using freeze-drying or by drying in an oven.

I was also trying to match the ash contents and absorption values of the specs you provided to the corresponding ash and water absorption values of the KASL/KABF flours. The aformentioned Cook's website defines ash as follows:

Flour Ash

The ash content of the flour is determined by incinerating a sample of flour.  The minerals naturally present in the flour do not burn and remain as ash.  The weight of the ash is then compare to the original sample.  The ash content tells us something about the extraction of the flour. In the endosperm of the wheat kernel, the mineral content increases from the center outwards.  The area of the endosperm nearest the aleuron and bran layers has the highest mineral content.  Higher ash contents indicate higher extraction.  Cook Natural Products aims for an ash content of about .55% in our white flours.


As you can see, the ash content of flour #1 comes closest to the ash values of the KASL/KABF flours and also to the ash value that Cook shoots for in their flours. The water absorption values of both flours #1 and #2, which directly correlate with gluten/protein content, also come closest to the corresponding values for the KASL/KABF flours. It was a combination of protein/gluten content, ash values and water absorption values that led me to conclude that flours #1 and #2 were perhaps the best match of the four choices you provided. However, it important to keep in mind that even when the specs of two flours are similar, they won't necessarily perform the same in a given dough formulation. For example, there can be differences in the quality of the protein and gluten that can affect their performance in a dough formulation and the final results. I am sure that flour specialists can point to several other possible differences.

Peter




 

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