Author Topic: Hey guys, brand new here, but been lurking for months.  (Read 1991 times)

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Offline slimpickens

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Hey guys, brand new here, but been lurking for months.
« on: August 18, 2009, 05:51:32 PM »
I'm really in deep on the sicilian deep dish. I grew up in the mid-west and to was a huge fan of the
Noble Romans sicilian they were so famous for at that time. I have since heard you can only find them at dual chain stops and is a big let down.
Anyway, I have yet to try making the dough, but have been working on the sauce for some time.
I'm making one tonight as a matter of fact. One thing I find no one post is cooking temps for the dough, I keep finding that my dough isn't done all the way, even the the cheese and corners of the dough do.
Any help there guys/gals?

anyway, really cool forum and I hope I can contribute something.


Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Hey guys, brand new here, but been lurking for months.
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2009, 06:07:35 PM »
Keep in mind needed cooking durations will vary based on how thick you desire your finished crust to be (thickness factor), the actual temperature of the dough when put into the oven and the hydration of your dough, among other factors.

I cooked my latest Sicilian, using a dough I made with a 70% hydration ratio, a targeted thickness factor of 0.12 and an interior dough temperature (as measured with a probe thermometer) of 72F as follows:

Pre-heated oven, with pizza stone on lowest rack, for 150 minutes at highest temperature possible on my standard kitchen oven (550F)

Cooked just the dough (in pan placed on pizza stone) for exactly 5 minutes. Actual pizza stone temperature was 536F as measured on an infrared digital thermometer.

Removed pan from oven. Topped dough/crust with ingredients and returned pan to pizza stone for 3 minutes.

Turned on boiler element on my oven to the high setting and moved pan from the pizza stone to the uppermost rack, which sits just below the broiler. Let pizza sit under broiler until the cheese just started to get a bit of brown flecking to it (which I like on a Sicilian), about 3 minutes 36 seconds on my stopwatch, before removing pan from oven and eating.

As you can see from the upskirt shot in the link below, I burnt the crust just a tad in two places. I cooked the dough for about 20-40 seconds too long and will adjust the cooking time accordingly next time, now that I am happy with my current dough recipe.

Again, many factors play a role here and you will have to tinker around to find your ideal cooking time needed to cook your particular recipe. Keep us updated on your progress and good luck!

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8942.msg78760.html#msg78760

In addition, you may want to use the Deep Dish dough calculating tool to help you formulate a recipe:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/dd_calculator.html
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Hey guys, brand new here, but been lurking for months.
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2009, 06:17:38 PM »
PB,

Can you tell me how you use the deep-dish dough calculating tool for the Sicilian style? For that style, I use the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, using the Rectangular feature.

Peter

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Hey guys, brand new here, but been lurking for months.
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2009, 06:30:03 PM »
I was unaware the Expanded Calculator had a rectangular feature on it, but now I see all of the Dough Calculating Tools feature a rectangular option (which is nice).

I personally use the pre-ferment calculator as I use natural/wide yeast starters. I knew the Deep Dish tool had the rectangular option on it, but should have checked the others before posting the link here.

Peter, thanks for the correction and apologies for the bad link I posted. :-[
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline slimpickens

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Re: Hey guys, brand new here, but been lurking for months.
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2009, 06:35:33 PM »
Hey Pete and Blogger good to meet you too, thanks for the tips.

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Hey guys, brand new here, but been lurking for months.
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2009, 06:43:25 PM »
Heya Slim!

Put up some pics of the pizza when you make it, I'm getting hungry  :D

Peter, interesting in that at least for the recipe I made last night, if I put a "How far up the sides of the pan will the dough go?" amount of 0.25, the formula on the Deep Dish and Expanded Calculator are exactly the same. So, that's how I would use it, I guess.   ::)  ???
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Hey guys, brand new here, but been lurking for months.
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2009, 07:12:06 PM »
PB,

At the time Mike and I designed the various dough calculating tools, we were unaware of anyone who was making a Chicago-style deep-dish pizza but in a rectangular shape. We suspected that someone, somewhere at some time must have used such a shape in a professional setting, so we included the Rectangular feature solely for that reason. I, personally, had made some mini deep-dish pizzas that were generally rectangular in shape, but I had to do all the math using a spreadsheet (since retired) since the deep-dish dough calculating tool didn't exist at the time. The mini deep-dish pizzas are shown at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2478.0.html.

Your use of the deep-dish dough calculating tool to come up with the same results as the expanded dough calculating tool is a clever and handy use of the deep-dish dough calculating tool. I do that sort of thing all the time, in ways that I never contemplated when Mike and I designed the tools. However, in your case, I think I would go with the expanded dough calculating tool ;D.

Peter

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Hey guys, brand new here, but been lurking for months.
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2009, 07:25:17 PM »
My goodness Pete, those individual mini deep dish pies look wonderful!

I am continually dumbstruck and in awe of your pizzamaking skills and knowledge.....you have to be among the very top tier of pizza makers in the country. We need to get you a oven that cranks out some real heat one day!

You rock!  8)
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Hey guys, brand new here, but been lurking for months.
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2009, 09:01:34 PM »
PB,

Thank you for the nice compliment. When I first became interested in pizza as a serious student of the subject, I thought it would be a short and simple exercise. Several years later, I am still learning. I perhaps am an anomaly because I approach pizza making from the technical and mathematical sides, which appeal to me and which I wrap around just about all of my pizza making. That holds little interest for most people, so I guess that makes me stick out. It is the same knowledge that I use, however, to diagnose problems that others have with their pizza making.

As for a better oven, I have never craved a better oven, even though I know that I would get better pizzas for certain styles. If I fed crowds like John Conk and Pete Taylor, maybe I would have considered a better oven.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 09:05:24 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline BurntEdges

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Re: Hey guys, brand new here, but been lurking for months.
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2009, 09:26:20 AM »
PB,

When I pre-bake the dough, I loose the edge rim since the middle of the dough gets thicker than the edge.  Don't you find that this allows sauce & cheese to run off the edge and burn?  Or is there something you do to keep your edge taller than the center?


Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Hey guys, brand new here, but been lurking for months.
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2009, 10:37:48 AM »
@Burnt Edges: That's a good question and something I aim to work on.

My edges in the Sicilian I just did were indeed a little lower than the middle, but I do not have a big runoff issue. However, I prefer leaving a rim of unsauced crust when I sauce my pizza, so runoff is not an issue for me at least. I add the olive oil before adding the sauce, and do not use a ton of oil, so maybe that helps as well. ???

Next time I think I am going to put a little sauce around the middle of the dough before the initial bake in order to retard the lift of the crust in the middle somewhat so that the edges are higher, but I am also worried this small layer of sauce might burn slightly and give a marinara like note to the finished product (personally, I strongly object to marinara like or "darker" flavored sauce on pizza). We'll have to see...... :)
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell