Yeah its definately an addiction, I do love the Pizza there is no doubt about it.
This whole thread/topic though has had me somewhat puzzled though. I have read the articles posted in this thread and what notable Pizza authorities write about kneading and I just dont see the results that I am "supposed" to get from overkneading.
Have a look at this;http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8947.msg77493.html#msg77493
That was still at 30 min knead time. As I have stated before I have had great results from 15-50. The only real notable change to the dough in those times I have has been
1) about 10% more chew. 2) On really long knead times you need to allow an extra day or 2 for the structure to break down.
I think the pro's could be right on but they are dealing with Pro equipment generally in a warmer climate (Kitchen) and dealing with a batch size that none of us can fathom.
I think with just one of those factors our pies could do any number of things much less with all of them.
But I feel that there is no way that anybody can look at that link I just posted above and say that is anything but (at least in my opinion ) a great structure for pizza crust. Yet by all rights its not supposed to turn out that way.
Like I stated earlier though temp/stone temp plays a huge part in the formation of the crumb. Far bigger than what knead times will effect.
Matter of fact stone temp and handling technique play (IMO) the biggest part in that type of crust formation. Thats why my pies still turn out like that.
Pete I stated to you in an PM a while back that I didnt know why/how I always end up with the nice rim, I just alway did. So I set out to figure it out.
My latest few rounds of temp experiments and trying out different handling techniques has shown me without a doubt that those are the biggest factors.
Even earlier in this thread where the "sir mixalot" printout/graph was posted showed that there is a very broad window for mixing dough. This only reinforces what I have said and shown. I really doubt anybody is going to be able to tell the difference between a dough that is is mixed for 11 min as opposed 14 or 15, how about the diffs between 15 and 20.
I can tell the diff between a 10 min and 30 min, in my own recipe but the diffs are very subtle. But really if you look around we have folks here that do "no knead", folks that knead by hand, folks that use bread machines, 3-4 different types of mixers and times all in between 5-50. All turning out good pies, at least good looking anyway and ones that I would definately LOVE to try. This should show there there are other much larger factors that come into play other than kneading.
The point of the whole long knead exercise was initially to find out really just what a factor kneading plays as at that time there had been quite few discussions about knead times.
Knowing what I know now, I say at least for me its way down on the list of things to worry about.