Author Topic: 18" with Homemade mozzarella  (Read 6250 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline s00da

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 468
18" with Homemade mozzarella
« on: August 08, 2009, 12:10:17 PM »
Today I got my hands on fresh raw milk and luckily I had made dough the day before  ;D

I made the mozzarella a little soft because I wanted to see how it behaves during bake time. It was hard to handle when stretching it but it was worth it. It actually cooked and bubbled during baking and this allowed it to blend with the sauce as you can see in the last picture creating a pink or blush color. What's also nice about soft mozzarella is that it oozes milk so it has a much more milky flavor.

The dough is made with Gold Medal Better for Bread, fermented for 24 hours at 75 F. Following is the recipe:

Total Formula:
Flour (100%):
Water (63.68%):
Salt (1.73%):
IDY (0.0235%):
Total (165.4335%):

402.06 g  |  14.18 oz | 0.89 lbs
256.03 g  |  9.03 oz | 0.56 lbs
6.96 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.45 tsp | 0.48 tbsp
0.09 g | 0 oz | 0 lbs | 0.03 tsp | 0.01 tbsp
665.15 g | 23.46 oz | 1.47 lbs | TF = 0.0922

My recipe was 64.65% hydration but I dropped it to 63.68% because I wanted to increase the crumb's density. I also maintained the IDY to at 1/32 tsp so as to lower its percentage from 0.0239% to 0.0235% since I wanted to get a less extensible dough for easier shaping. I also lowered the mixing time of the dough by just a couple of minutes to avoid over kneading since the hydration is lower now.

The dough stretched very easily, it was also well fermented and smelled nice. I topped it with the mozzarella first and then half of it with pepperoni. The cheese-only side received some garlic sea salt blend. Then I applied the sauce using a squeeze bottle that I got here http://www.amazon.com/Norpro-Bottle-Silicone-Pour-Spout/dp/B001CFPXTA/?tag=pizzamaking-20 it makes things much easier as it minimizes the mess if you apply the sauce at the end. Finally a generous drizzle of EVOO on the cheese-only side.

The pizza baked for roughly 5 minutes at 720 F. The mozzarella cooked and bubbled but remained white, I love this!

The pizza came out amazing  ;D the mozzarella tasted a little too milky and hardcore for one of the guests but others loved it. The toppings were a little on the soggy side because of the soft mozzarella but the bottom of the pizza remained crisp. I liked the crust but I believe I'd like it a little thicker for the next time.

Things I learned, soft mozzarella is well suited for Neapolitan pizzas as usually I don't apply much of it. I also missed the chewiness of the dryer mozzarella.

Enjoy!


Offline s00da

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 468
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2009, 12:14:11 PM »
More pix

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22007
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2009, 01:31:18 PM »
Saad,

Those are great looking pizzas. It looks like you are well on your way to mastering the 24-hour room-temperature fermentation method. Now, if you can only find a way to suspend the fermentation at 24 hours to allow you to fit the dough to your schedule better without overfermenting.

Peter

Offline Matthew

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2231
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2009, 04:06:46 PM »
Great Job!!!!!!!!!!!

Matt

Offline s00da

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 468
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2009, 04:39:09 PM »
Thanks!

Actually pete this is exactly what I've been thinking about today. First I want to know the usability window for this pie after the 24 hours as to know how suitable it is to throw a pizza party. So for my next attempts, I will bake at the 25th, 26th, 27th, 28th ... all the way until it's overfermented. If the dough can live for 5 more hours at the same fermentation temp. then I guess I got myself something good. Then moving on to try and suspend fermentation. The only way I could see it is by moving it to the fridge at the 22nd hour assuming 1 hour is required for the fermentation to suspend and another when taking it out to come to room temperature. If you have other ideas to tackle fermentation suspension, please enlighten me!

What's really convenient about this dough is that it's timed exactly at the 24 hours. So if I plan a pizza dinner at 7PM, then I just start making it at 6PM the day before assuming 1 hour preparation including many other things than just kneading. I usually test it for ripening starting at the 20th hour by pushing against it with my finger. If it doesn't spring back, then it's ready and this usually occurs around the planned time.

I've been making room-temp fermented doughs for a while now since I got my Ischia and to me it's much more easier to control as the A/C here is running non-stop stabilizing the temp. at 75 F.

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22007
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2009, 05:01:40 PM »
Saad,

I was thinking about refrigerating the dough at the end, or somewhere near the end, just as you discussed. As an out of the box approach, I wondered what would happen if the yeast were cut in half to, say, get 48 hours of fermentation. Would the enzymes destroy the gluten matrix or make a real mess of things? That is something that would have to be tested, but the test might help define the outer limit.

Peter

Offline Matthew

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2231
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 06:59:20 PM »
Thanks!

Actually pete this is exactly what I've been thinking about today. First I want to know the usability window for this pie after the 24 hours as to know how suitable it is to throw a pizza party. So for my next attempts, I will bake at the 25th, 26th, 27th, 28th ... all the way until it's overfermented. If the dough can live for 5 more hours at the same fermentation temp. then I guess I got myself something good. Then moving on to try and suspend fermentation. The only way I could see it is by moving it to the fridge at the 22nd hour assuming 1 hour is required for the fermentation to suspend and another when taking it out to come to room temperature. If you have other ideas to tackle fermentation suspension, please enlighten me!

What's really convenient about this dough is that it's timed exactly at the 24 hours. So if I plan a pizza dinner at 7PM, then I just start making it at 6PM the day before assuming 1 hour preparation including many other things than just kneading. I usually test it for ripening starting at the 20th hour by pushing against it with my finger. If it doesn't spring back, then it's ready and this usually occurs around the planned time.

I've been making room-temp fermented doughs for a while now since I got my Ischia and to me it's much more easier to control as the A/C here is running non-stop stabilizing the temp. at 75 F.

Saad,
I do it all the time.  After a 24 hour bulk fermentation I form the balls & then place in the fridge up until 5 hours before I'm ready to use them.  At that point I take them out of the fridge & let them sit at room temperature.  I've had great results up to 5 days; have never gone further than that.  This pizza was done with a 5 day old Ischia dough & was excellent.

Matt

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22007
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2009, 07:01:30 PM »
Matt,

Have you ever done that with commercial yeast? And how much Ischia starter culture did you use in relation to flour, water or total dough?

Peter

Offline s00da

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 468
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2009, 07:33:20 PM »
Mathew, if you retard the balls right after forming them then you lose much of the gas in the dough. When you take the dough out to come to room-temp, how long do you leave them? and how much rise do you get then?

Pete, the idea of cutting down on the IDY sounds very interesting. You indicated that the enzymes would destroy the gluten matrix as if the enzyme activity is separate from the whole fermentation process. The key here is the alpha-amylase enzyme as it keeps breaking starch and at the end feeding the yeast to generate gassing power. When the starch is broken to yeast food, the remaining water is absorbed by the gluten until it reaches a point where the gluten is saturated and cannot hold more. At that point, the dough breaks loose. That being said, it would mean that the enzyme activity goes parallel with the yeast gas generation and thus the whole fermentation process. If my theory is right, there should be no gluten destruction occurring at an earlier stage before the dough being well fermented and ready. That is of course unless I missed something here  :-D

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22007
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2009, 08:57:26 PM »
Saad,

I was thinking of the protease enzymes. During the mixing and kneading processes, including any autolyse rest periods, and during biochemical gluten development, the formula water hydrates the protein. As I understand it, the protease enzymes operate to degrade the gluten matrix (including during any autolyse rest period), and at some point, usually after a long fermentation time, the water is released from its bond, leading to a wet and slack dough with a weakened gluten structure. I have always viewed the protease enzymes to perform separately from the fermentation process, including the action of the alpha- and beta-amylase enzymes.

Peter


Offline thezaman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1899
  • Age: 61
  • Location: ohio
  • I Love Pizza!
    • lorenzos pizza
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2009, 09:52:13 PM »
That is great looking pie !! . can you tell me about your mozzarella procedure , and what did you use for your tomato sauce . one more question ,is that a wood cooked pizza, or a high heat regular oven pizza ?

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21845
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2009, 10:14:08 PM »
Saad,
That is really a great looking pizza. 
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline m_pizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 34
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2009, 03:30:56 AM »
Hello,

Your cheese looks great - I have been making my own mozz from unhomogenized cows milk for a while - if you could post up your formula so I could see how much rennet/acid/culture you used and the method it would be fantastic - one part I always seem to have problems in is seperating the curd from the whey once the rennet has done its job - it always seems to be very messy and I'm not sure the best way to go about it.

Offline Matthew

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2231
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2009, 06:20:17 AM »
Matt,

Have you ever done that with commercial yeast? And how much Ischia starter culture did you use in relation to flour, water or total dough?

Peter

Hi Peter,
No I haven't;  as a matter of fact the only time that I use commercial yeast is if I get into a bind & need dough within 8-10 hours.   The amount of starter that I use is equal to 5% of the total dough weight.

Matt

Offline Matthew

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2231
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2009, 06:31:52 AM »
Mathew, if you retard the balls right after forming them then you lose much of the gas in the dough. When you take the dough out to come to room-temp, how long do you leave them? and how much rise do you get then?


Sorry Saad,
I usually let them sit for about half an hour after forming; forgot to mention that :-[.  I usually take them out of the fridge & bring them to room temperature for about 5 hours prior to using them.  After the 5 hour period they are at least double in size & are soft & pillow like.

Matt

Offline s00da

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 468
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2009, 01:30:51 PM »
Saad,

I was thinking of the protease enzymes. During the mixing and kneading processes, including any autolyse rest periods, and during biochemical gluten development, the formula water hydrates the protein. As I understand it, the protease enzymes operate to degrade the gluten matrix (including during any autolyse rest period), and at some point, usually after a long fermentation time, the water is released from its bond, leading to a wet and slack dough with a weakened gluten structure. I have always viewed the protease enzymes to perform separately from the fermentation process, including the action of the alpha- and beta-amylase enzymes.

Peter

Yes protease  :P well, that sounds like a good challenge for the flour. Since protease activity is independent of the fermentation process then it can set the limit to how long a dough can be fermented! Assuming the the smaller yeast levels required can be actually measured.

My next dough will further test decreasing hydration and increasing thickness as I'm still looking for more density and need more support for my heavy topping habit. Once done with that, I will test decreasing yeast for a prolonged fermentation period.

Will be updating here with results.

Saad

Offline NY pizzastriver

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 527
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2009, 02:07:49 PM »
This is an amazing looking pie, everything about it looks amazing!  It looks so good that when I saw it last night I had to make a Glutenboy pizza ball, after only 4 days, to make a 1/2 pepperoni pie. ;D

Sadly, saad, I was thinking about trying this 24 hr ferment idea...until I read more. Starter + 720 degrees = probably not worth proceeding without those two factors in the equation. I've been thinking of a cob oven. I have the place, drawings, and medieval theme all planned. One day, not soon, but on that day this looks like a great pie to try. (or another non starter method maybe)

Home made moz., now that's an idea! Beautiful work.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2009, 02:14:08 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline s00da

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 468
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2009, 02:59:48 PM »
That is great looking pie !! . can you tell me about your mozzarella procedure , and what did you use for your tomato sauce . one more question ,is that a wood cooked pizza, or a high heat regular oven pizza ?


Thanks thezaman, the sauce I'm using is posted here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8988.msg77754.html#msg77754 as for the oven, it's custom made and I have pictures of it posted on this thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8363.msg73300.html#msg73300

Hello,

Your cheese looks great - I have been making my own mozz from unhomogenized cows milk for a while - if you could post up your formula so I could see how much rennet/acid/culture you used and the method it would be fantastic - one part I always seem to have problems in is seperating the curd from the whey once the rennet has done its job - it always seems to be very messy and I'm not sure the best way to go about it.


Following is mozzarella procedure, I probably tried all sorts of milk and only found that raw milk is the one that works. One type I didn't try to be precise and that's pasteurized non-homogenized milk which seems to work with you. Notice that when using raw milk, you don't have a consistent fat content. The fat contributes greatly to the flavor of the cheese. Some say that if the milk is low on fat, it can be substituted by heavy cream but I haven't tried that yet.

This is a little modified procedure from the one I started with at cheesemaking.com

For 1 gallon raw milk (US) = 3.78g
Use chlorine-free water

Procedure:
1- Pasteurization: Heat milk at 145 F for 30 minutes then put in the fridge until it comes down to 90 F.
2- Prepare Ingredients: Dissolve (1/4) rennet tablet in (1/4 cup) cool water and stir well. Dissolve (1 1/2 tsp) citric acid with (1 cup) cool water and stir well.
3- Acidifying: Pour citric acid solution slowly into milk when at 90 F while stirring.
4- Renneting: Pour rennet solution into milk and slowly stir for no more than 1 minute.
5- Curd formation: Leave covered for 6-10 minutes. Here you can start checking at the 5th minute by poking the curds with a sharp knife and check how clear is the whey.
6- Cutting: Cut the curds to hazel-nut sized pieces.
7- Firming: Move the curds around gently while heating to 105 F. Turn off the heat and keep moving for 2-5 minutes, this controls the firmness of the cheese. As you stir, chop the bigger chunks with a knife and try to make a more uniform size.
8- Separating the curds, this is what you want : Use a colander placed in the kitchen sink and if you want the whey, use Butter Muslin on top of the colander http://www.cheeseforum.org/Making/Cheesecloths.htm
9- I use the microwave method: you basically heat the cheese for 30 seconds, knead a little, drain the whey and repeat until the whey is minimum and the cheese is hot and easily stretched but note that before the last heating turn, I apply the cheese salt as I knead. Finally, I like to form the cheese in loaf shape by wrapping is around itself, it makes a nice texture when you cut through. Put in iced water for 10 minutes then wrap in plastic and into the fridge.

This is one from my earlier attempts http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8233.msg72628.html#msg72628

Saad

Offline s00da

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 468
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2009, 03:04:09 PM »
This is an amazing looking pie, everything about it looks amazing!  It looks so good that when I saw it last night I had to make a Glutenboy pizza ball, after only 4 days, to make a 1/2 pepperoni pie. ;D

Sadly, saad, I was thinking about trying this 24 hr ferment idea...until I read more. Starter + 720 degrees = probably not worth proceeding without those two factors in the equation. I've been thinking of a cob oven. I have the place, drawings, and medieval theme all planned. One day, not soon, but on that day this looks like a great pie to try. (or another non starter method maybe)

Home made moz., now that's an idea! Beautiful work.


Actually my dough is inspired by Pete's work on this thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7225.0.html where both of us are using IDY and not a starter. Also, note that Pete bakes his pizzas at less than 700 F. So you can do it  :)

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22007
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: 18" with Homemade mozzarella
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2009, 03:36:20 PM »
Saad,

With your oven and high oven temperature, I think attempting the Brian Spangler (Apizza Scholls) clone dough at Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7225.msg76431.html#msg76431 would be an interesting experiment for you to conduct. Even the size (18") is right. I'm sure that others would also like to see what you get with the Spangler clone dough in your oven.

Peter