Author Topic: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results  (Read 81637 times)

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Offline the1mu

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Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #325 on: June 22, 2016, 09:03:33 PM »
Question for Craig....

How would you adapt this to bread making? Say the typical workflow is 3 hours of total rise (2 hours in bulk, 1 hour shaped), would you use yeast for the 3 hour period? What if you do a punch down/S&F half way through the bulk? Would that change the amount you'd use?

My kitchen is about 82 right now and the chart specifies about .1-.13% for 3 hours at that temp. If I am aiming for around 3-3.5 hours with fermenting (not including mixing, dividing and shaping time) and if I typically do 2 hours bulk, 1 hour shaped, is that the correct approach?

Or does it in some weird way, it just not carry over?

Offline TXCraig1

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I'm not sure you can. The underlying assumptions are rather different than encountered in bread baking.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline the1mu

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I'm not sure you can. The underlying assumptions are rather different than encountered in bread baking.

Would the underlying assumptions simply be to get the pizza dough to approximately double?

Offline TXCraig1

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Would the underlying assumptions simply be to get the pizza dough to approximately double?

Generally speaking, yes.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline the1mu

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Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #329 on: Yesterday at 09:31:15 AM »
So, in relation to my above question, I tried a controlled experiment today in attempt to see if I can approximate how to use this chart regarding bread making. I decided to do two identical doughs, literally within minutes of each other with keeping everything identical except the yeast. I decided to ferment and proof for 3 hours and stick to that timetable regardless of what was happening with the dough, so that the difference of the affect of yeast amounts would be the only thing that would affect outcome.

My room temp was approx 79-80 for the whole three hours and I checked it at the site of the dough approximately 5 times over those three hours.

I started with 66g water and then measured my yeast and added it to the water (IDY). I then immediately added 100 g of flour. I mixed until combined with a fork then put the ball onto the counter and covered with plastic wrap. The whole process took less than 2 minutes. I then immediately measured out another 66g of water and the 2nd yeast amount and combined. Then again added 100 g of flour and mixed until combined, turning the resulting ball onto the counter and covering. I then set a timer for 10 minutes.

The yeasts amount were .32 & .64g of yeast, respectively. I kept the .64g of yeast dough on the right side at all times.

After the ten minutes elapsed I added 2 g of salt to the first dough and "cut" it in with a dough scraper (about 2 minutes) then I let that dough rest while I did the same to the second. Then I kneaded the first ball until smooth (about 2 minutes) and then again the 2nd.

I then weighed and took the temperature of each dough ball. They weighed in at 164.1 & 164.4 respectively and had a final dough temp of 80.8 and 81.6 respectively.

I used peanut butter jars that I had weighed water into to mark the volume in ml. I then oiled the containers with 1.3 g oil (sprayed it in and checked each until equal...). I was a bit heavy handed but wanted to make sure the dough would come out due to the inconvenient shape of the jars.

I then placed the dough in and pushed down to try to get it flat and get an idea of volume. It was approximately 125 ml.

I then let it rise for 1 hour. The .32g rose to about the 170 ml line and the .64 rose to about the 200 ml line (it is not super clear in the photos.

I removed each from their containers, starting with the .32g yeast one and was careful to not degas them and gave them a slight stretch & fold.

I again took dough temp, room temp and weighed the dough. Dough temp was 81.4 and 80.8 and weighed 164 & 164.4, respectively. After placing back in their containers the heights were about 160 & 190 ml.

I again allowed them to rise for an hour, however at 30 min into the second rise the .64 dough was doubled (to 250ml Mark) however, it lacked the poofiness that I look for in a fully risen bulk ferment.

At 2 hours, .64 dough was at approximately 280ml and .32 was at 225. The .32 was definitely not fully risen by feel but the .64 felt very close, if not slightly overly risen.

I then gently degassed and preshaped. The dough temp at preshape was 81.7 & 82.1.

Each dough was allowed to rest approx. 10 min then shaped into batards. They then proofed for 55 minutes and then I slashed them and put them into the oven. Baked for 15 min at 230C.

The .32 loaf had just a bit too much oven spring and began to tear at the bottom, despite a valiant effort to push through all my attempts at keeping my oven moist and create an ear. It also had a wider range of colors from golden/chestnut to white.

The .64 was probably just about where it needed to be if you don't want oven spring (so 100% fermented instead of 90%). It's color was much more even and most of the loaf was golden/chestnut colored.

Now looking at the charts, my guess is that the .32% #, while listed as 2 hours, is probably something a little over 2 hours and the .64 is listed as 1 hour in the middle of a lot of 1 hours, so I'd guess that is probably closer to 1.5 hours. With that assumption in mind, I'd say the chart was exactly right on with the times for doubling in a 2 hour bulk ferment. And that the chart could be used for bread to determine the length of the bulk ferment.

Pic 1 - initial dough height
Pic 2 - height after 1st hour
Pic 3 - height after S&F
Pic 4 - height after 2nd hour
Pic 5 - shaped dough
Pic 6 - proofed dough
Pic 7 - baked loaves
Pic 8 - cross section
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:33:31 AM by the1mu »


 

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