Author Topic: NJ Boardwalk Pizza  (Read 236749 times)

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Offline matermark

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1400 on: September 05, 2012, 11:51:13 AM »
Norma,

I went back and got the numbers for the Mack's cheese pizza that PiedPiper purchased some time ago. That pizza weighed 986 grams (baked), or 34.78 ounces. Your latest unbaked Mack's clone pizza weighed 20 (flour) + 10.5 (cheese) + 8 (sauce) = 38.5 ounces. Using the last weight figure you showed on your scale for your Mack's clone pizza, 2.09 pounds, or 33.44 ounces, I calculated the weight loss during baking to be 38.5-33.44 ounces, or 13.14%. I then took that number and applied it to the PiedPiper Mack's cheese pizza to work backwards to the unbaked weight. When I did that [34.78 + (13.14% x 34.78)], I got 39.35 ounces. As you can see, that number is very close to the 38.5 ounces of your latest Mack's clone cheese pizza. The difference is only 0.85 ounces. Of course, we don't know if the weight losses are the same in Mack's oven as with your deck oven.

Peter


39.35 minus 13.14% = 34.18. Working backwards is different, for example, you can't subtract a % and then add it to the result to get the original # again....


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1401 on: September 05, 2012, 12:28:50 PM »
39.35 minus 13.14% = 34.18. Working backwards is different, for example, you can't subtract a % and then add it to the result to get the original # again....

Mark,

Good catch. You are right. If the same percent (13.14%) is applied to Mack's oven, I believe that it would take an unbaked pizza with a weight of a bit over 40 ounces to end up with a baked weight of 34.78 ounces [40.04 - (13.14% x 40.04) = 34.78]. However, this is all speculative since we don't know what losses are actually sustained in Mack's oven for an 18" cheese pizza. I was only looking to see if Norma was in the ballpark with her numbers. To be more accurate, we would have to know the actual percent weight loss for a Mack's 18" cheese pizza.

Peter

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1402 on: September 05, 2012, 12:52:54 PM »
Thanks for figuring out the numbers from the Mackís attempt I did yesterday in comparison to the numbers PiedPiper got.  I see the numbers are very close.  Do you think I should have left the pizza cool down a little more?  I know if I, or another member, purchases a Mackís pizza to weigh, it would take longer to get the baked pizza to a vehicle and then weigh it.  I guess I should have waited until the pizza cooled down more and then weighed it.  I know my deck oven might not have the same bake weight losses as Mackís ovens do.  

Norma,

I once purchased a Papa John's pizza and weighed it in the PJ parking lot and again when I got home about 7 minutes later and the weight loss was only 3 grams.

When I calculated the percent weight loss for your latest Mack's clone pizza using the 2.104 pound value, the percent loss was 12.56%. That is about a half percent difference. Since we do not know when PiedPiper weighed his Mack's baked cheese pizza, I wouldn't worry about trying to get more accurate.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1403 on: September 05, 2012, 08:17:24 PM »
Norma,

I once purchased a Papa John's pizza and weighed it in the PJ parking lot and again when I got home about 7 minutes later and the weight loss was only 3 grams.

When I calculated the percent weight loss for your latest Mack's clone pizza using the 2.104 pound value, the percent loss was 12.56%. That is about a half percent difference. Since we do not know when PiedPiper weighed his Mack's baked cheese pizza, I wouldn't worry about trying to get more accurate.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for posting that your Papa Johnís pizza only lost 3 grams after the 7 minutes trip home, after weighing it first in the PJ parking lot.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1404 on: September 07, 2012, 07:29:08 AM »
If anyone is interested, I updated what I found out about the Nasonville cheese at Reply 168 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13499.msg208401.html#msg208401

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1405 on: September 07, 2012, 07:53:25 AM »
Peter,

I am going to try a Mackís attempt using your formulation at Reply 307 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg99472.html#msg99472 using KABF and Hodgson Mill VWG for Tuesday.  Do you suggest I just try out your formulation with 5% oil the first time and also use the same amount of all the ingredients in your formulation for the same amount of dough to see what happens?  I think I am also going to purchase some Walmart Great Value Tomato Paste and add spices to the paste. 

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1406 on: September 07, 2012, 08:15:03 AM »
I am going to try a Mackís attempt using your formulation at Reply 307 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg99472.html#msg99472 using KABF and Hodgson Mill VWG for Tuesday.  Do you suggest I just try out your formulation with 5% oil the first time and also use the same amount of all the ingredients in your formulation for the same amount of dough to see what happens?  I think I am also going to purchase some Walmart Great Value Tomato Paste and add spices to the paste. 

Norma,

That is entirely up to you. In that dough formulation, I used a dough ball weight of 21 ounces (with a bowl residue compensation of 1%), which will mean a crust thickness that is greater than what you say you have been looking for. So, if you'd like, you can scale the dough formulation set forth in Reply 307 to the 20-ounce dough ball weight and use the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ to recalculate the amount of vital wheat gluten to use for the scaled down version. As for the oil, I forget exactly how we settled on 5%, but if you'd like, you can scale that amount back also so that you are able to compare the VWG version of the Mack's clone with your recent ones. You can also use your standard bowl residue compensation value. I used 1% because I was using my food processor in combination with my stand mixer, which resulted in smaller dough losses.

I look forward to the results of the next Mack's clone, and especially to see if it is possible to make a credible Mack's clone using ingredients that can be purchased at the retail level.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1407 on: September 07, 2012, 10:27:59 AM »
Norma,

That is entirely up to you. In that dough formulation, I used a dough ball weight of 21 ounces (with a bowl residue compensation of 1%), which will mean a crust thickness that is greater than what you say you have been looking for. So, if you'd like, you can scale the dough formulation set forth in Reply 307 to the 20-ounce dough ball weight and use the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ to recalculate the amount of vital wheat gluten to use for the scaled down version. As for the oil, I forget exactly how we settled on 5%, but if you'd like, you can scale that amount back also so that you are able to compare the VWG version of the Mack's clone with your recent ones. You can also use your standard bowl residue compensation value. I used 1% because I was using my food processor in combination with my stand mixer, which resulted in smaller dough losses.

I look forward to the results of the next Mack's clone, and especially to see if it is possible to make a credible Mack's clone using ingredients that can be purchased at the retail level.

Peter

Peter,

I think for the first attempt I will just go with your formulation and not change anything.  I will have to refresh my memory on how to use the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator.   I think I would need a total protein of 14.2% when using KABF and VWG.     

I now recall rayjockís post at Reply 323 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg100084.html#msg100084  He said in that post that the dough was separated into balls, then put on the metal pans and allowed to rise for at least 7 hrs.  I had forgot about rayjockís post, until recently. It sounds like the way Mackís made their dough 40 years ago was something like old-school pizzerias did.  I never tried to make a 7 hr. dough attempt.  He also posted that the sauce was only seasoned with oregano and some pepper, which is basically what Steve and I did.   

I had even tried 6% oil one time at Reply http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg100438.html#msg100438

I also noted after reading some of this thread too that mikel33 posted at Reply 445 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg106484.html#msg106484  he saw yellow and white cheese at Mackís.  That seems to confirm what Bill from Trenton told me his old friend told him.

It also seems like ERASMO had the right idea for the cheese back in 8/18/2010 at Reply 464 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg107138.html#msg107138  I guess since the Nasonville medium cheddar wasnít aged enough, that might be why he didnít like that cheddar for a Mackís attempt. 

I am not sure, but think we decided to change the hydration to 53% and keep the oil at 5% in your post at 493  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg112760.html#msg112760 after I posted some of the pictures such as the second one (and others) at Reply 484 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg112693.html#msg112693

Someday I will have to read though this whole thread again, because I even forget all what is posted on all these pages.  I canít imagine someone wanting to read though all these pages.   :-D

Hopefully, a decent Mackís attempt can be made with using ingredients that can be purchased at the retail level.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1408 on: September 10, 2012, 06:00:44 PM »
I mixed Peterís formulation with KABF and VWG this morning, but upped the yeast a little.  I then scaled the dough down to the same weight of the dough ball as I used last week, so I can measure how it compares in weight with the attempt I made last week after the bake.  The dough came together well in my Kitchen Aid mixer.  I will add the same amount of cheddar and sauce tomorrow.

Norma


Offline matermark

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1409 on: September 10, 2012, 06:25:37 PM »
Peter,

I think for the first attempt I will just go with your formulation and not change anything.  I will have to refresh my memory on how to use the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator.   I think I would need a total protein of 14.2% when using KABF and VWG.    

I now recall rayjockís post at Reply 323 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg100084.html#msg100084  He said in that post that the dough was separated into balls, then put on the metal pans and allowed to rise for at least 7 hrs.  I had forgot about rayjockís post, until recently. It sounds like the way Mackís made their dough 40 years ago was something like old-school pizzerias did.  I never tried to make a 7 hr. dough attempt.  He also posted that the sauce was only seasoned with oregano and some pepper, which is basically what Steve and I did.    

I had even tried 6% oil one time at Reply http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg100438.html#msg100438

I also noted after reading some of this thread too that mikel33 posted at Reply 445 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg106484.html#msg106484  he saw yellow and white cheese at Mackís.  That seems to confirm what Bill from Trenton told me his old friend told him.It also seems like ERASMO had the right idea for the cheese back in 8/18/2010 at Reply 464 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg107138.html#msg107138  I guess since the Nasonville medium cheddar wasnít aged enough, that might be why he didnít like that cheddar for a Mackís attempt.  

I am not sure, but think we decided to change the hydration to 53% and keep the oil at 5% in your post at 493  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg112760.html#msg112760 after I posted some of the pictures such as the second one (and others) at Reply 484 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg112693.html#msg112693

Someday I will have to read though this whole thread again, because I even forget all what is posted on all these pages.  I canít imagine someone wanting to read though all these pages.   :-D

Hopefully, a decent Mackís attempt can be made with using ingredients that can be purchased at the retail level.

Norma
I wonder if your cheese secret can be found in the 3rd or so paragraph from Pizza Shark's methods in this thread about a different pizza:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3712.msg30850.html#msg30850;

I often let my mozz go until it changes color and even bubbles inside the sealed pkg.

I also wonder if PA & NJ used aged Brick Cheese many, many years ago and changed to cheddar more recently because of better deals or easier to find cheddar...
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 06:29:12 PM by matermark »

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1410 on: September 10, 2012, 07:11:04 PM »
I wonder if your cheese secret can be found in the 3rd or so paragraph from Pizza Shark's methods in this thread about a different pizza:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3712.msg30850.html#msg30850;

I often let my mozz go until it changes color and even bubbles inside the sealed pkg.

I also wonder if PA & NJ used aged Brick Cheese many, many years ago and changed to cheddar more recently because of better deals or easier to find cheddar...

Mark,

I sure donít know if the secret to Mackís cheese is found in the 3rd paragraph of Pizza Sharkís methods or not.  I do know aged cheddar does change the flavor, but really didnít know aging changed the flavor of mozzarella.

I have no idea if Pa. and NJ pizzerias used aged Brick cheese many years ago, but some probably did and still probably are using brick cheese.  

Norma
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 08:31:42 PM by norma427 »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1411 on: September 10, 2012, 07:39:03 PM »
Norma,
Is pizza shark your old pizza friend that you and I just recently talked about. You know, the guy who made the pizza for noobies thread similar to the thing I am working on? I wish I could remember your friends name cause I'd like to read some more of his stuff. He was a joker type, right?  ;D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1412 on: September 10, 2012, 08:30:06 PM »
Norma,
Is pizza shark your old pizza friend that you and I just recently talked about. You know, the guy who made the pizza for noobies thread similar to the thing I am working on? I wish I could remember your friends name cause I'd like to read some more of his stuff. He was a joker type, right?  ;D

Bob,

I recall reading some of Pizza Sharkís posts, but I really donít remember who he was.  Pizza Shark only has 27 posts.  ThunderStik is the member I mentioned that I liked.  I miss him and enjoyed his posts.  I never really knew him personally.  ThunderStik was funny and did joke sometimes. :P

Norma

Offline matermark

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1413 on: September 10, 2012, 08:44:25 PM »
Mark,

I sure donít know if the secret to Mackís cheese is found in the 3rd paragraph of Pizza Sharkís methods or not.  I do know aged cheddar does change the flavor, but really didnít know aging changed the flavor of mozzarella.

I have no idea if Pa. and NJ pizzerias used aged Brick cheese many years ago, but some probably did and still probably are using brick cheese.  

Norma
Norma, my point was: Let a package sit in the fridge for a few months (sealed--don't open it) and wait until it's past the "BEST BY ______" date and even changing color to an off-white to pale yellow, and see if it is closer to what Mack's should be.

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1414 on: September 10, 2012, 08:57:44 PM »
Norma, my point was: Let a package sit in the fridge for a few months (sealed--don't open it) and wait until it's past the "BEST BY ______" date and even changing color to an off-white to pale yellow, and see if it is closer to what Mack's should be.

Thanks Mark!  ;)

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1415 on: September 12, 2012, 09:25:44 AM »
The Mackís attempt yesterday using Peterís formulation, turned out well.  The taste of the cheese was a little too strong and the Great Value tomato sauce could have either used a little more oregano, or should have been left to sit longer to develop a more oregano taste, but the crust turned out well with KABF and VWG.  Steve and I couldnít taste there was any VWG added in the crust.  Steve even said that he thought the crust was better than when I used Kyrol flour in that it had a more wheaty taste.  I thought the crust was good.

I couldnít tell any difference in the handling the dough ball (from the time I went to open it) from Peterís formulation (using KABF and VWG) from when using Kyrol flour.  The dough ball opened the same, could be tossed and twirled and baked almost the same in my deck oven.  The only difference Steve and I could tell was the bottom crust at the rim was a little crisper.  The little bit of crisper rim crust could have even been from a different place I had it in the oven, or the amount of time it took to bake. 

The overall weight of the fresh baked pizza after 4 minutes was 2.126 lb.  The weigh did dropped after that though.  It also weighed more right out of the oven (2.136 lb.).  I used 10 oz. of grated cheese and 8.5 oz. of the one year old aged Nasonville cheddar (the same as my last attempt).  The cheese and sauce were weighed on my regular scale, not my digital pizza scale.  I donít know why I used 8.5 oz. of sauce this time and only used 8 oz. in my last attempt. 

Steve used the 12 oz. of Great Value tomato paste and it can be seen how much paste was left in the container.  He added 9 oz. of water to the tomato paste.  These werenít measured on my digital scale, but on my scale that I used for weighing cheeses that are used on my pizza.  Steve used my measuring spoons and measured Ĺ teaspoon of Mortonís Kosher salt, ľ teaspoon of black pepper and 2 teaspoons of oregano to the paste and water.  These were measured level in the stainless steel measuring spoons.  We used the paste sauce within 15 minutes, so there wasnít much time for the oregano to give the paste more flavor. 

I got a bill from Nasonville for the 4 cheeses I had purchased yesterday and will post more about that in the next day, or so, after I call Nasonville.  I think I was way overcharged for the shipping on the cheese.  I will post about that on the Mackís cheese thread. 

Overall this was a very good pizza.  Steve and I didnít share any slices with our taste testers, because we want some slices to take home.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1416 on: September 12, 2012, 09:26:32 AM »
Norma


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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1417 on: September 12, 2012, 09:27:10 AM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1418 on: September 12, 2012, 09:27:52 AM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1419 on: September 12, 2012, 09:28:48 AM »
Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1420 on: September 12, 2012, 09:29:30 AM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1421 on: September 12, 2012, 09:30:11 AM »
Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1422 on: September 12, 2012, 09:30:45 AM »
Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1423 on: September 12, 2012, 09:31:26 AM »
Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1424 on: September 12, 2012, 09:32:08 AM »
Norma


 

pizzapan