NJ Boardwalk Pizza

[norma427]

Norma,
My suggestion was to reduce the amount of oil "by" 0.50%, not "to" 0.50%. So, the amount of oil should be 2% instead of 2.5%. If the reduction works but still not quite good enough, then you can consider a further reduction later. For now, for the small reduction in the amount of oil, I do not see any need to change the hydration value.
 
That is very good news on the Gangi pizza sauce. Will that pizza sauce be what Mack's has been using, or will it be a different product? I am also anxious to see that Nutrition Facts.

Peter

Peter,

I understood your suggestion was to deduce the amount of oil by 0.50%, but I just didn’t word my post right.  It might have been I didn’t post right because I had a few drinks.    Thanks for telling me that for now you don’t see any need to change the hydration value.

The sample I am getting will be the right Gangi sauce that Mack’s is using.  If my daughter has time on Friday she might take me to Collegeville to pick up a case of the right Gangi sauce too.  I am anxious to get started to see if my customers do really like a Mack’s clone pizza. 

I will post when I get the Nutrition Facts for the Gangi Supreme Heavy Duty pizza sauce.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I will post when I get the Nutrition Facts for the Gangi Supreme Heavy Duty pizza sauce.

Norma,

Once you get the nutrition information on the Gangi pizza sauce, you may have to get in touch with Escalon to see which of their products might be counterparts to the Gangi pizza sauce. I mention this because Escalon does not publish that information on its website. However, they will provide it to professionals upon request. This is not an issue with Stanislaus since it publishes the nutrition information on its tomato products at its website. Looking at the Stanislaus products, at http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/products/nutrition-facts, I see four "heavy" pizza sauces. 

I also looked at the Escalon/Stanislaus cross-reference chart at http://www.pizzamaking.com/escalon_stanislaus.html and see some possible Escalon products that might qualify as counterparts to the Gangi pizza sauce and to the applicable Stanislaus products. However, since the cross-reference chart is fairly old, we may find that the product lineups of the Escalon and Stanislaus have changed.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Once you get the nutrition information on the Gangi pizza sauce, you may have to get in touch with Escalon to see which of their products might be counterparts to the Gangi pizza sauce. I mention this because Escalon does not publish that information on its website. However, they will provide it to professionals upon request. This is not an issue with Stanislaus since it publishes the nutrition information on its tomato products at its website. Looking at the Stanislaus products, at http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/products/nutrition-facts, I see four "heavy" pizza sauces. 

I also looked at the Escalon/Stanislaus cross-reference chart at http://www.pizzamaking.com/escalon_stanislaus.html and see some possible Escalon products that might qualify as counterparts to the Gangi pizza sauce and to the applicable Stanislaus products. However, since the cross-reference chart is fairly old, we may find that the product lineups of the Escalon and Stanislaus have changed.

Peter

Peter,

Once I get the nutrition information on the Gangi pizza sauce I will get in touch with Escalon to see which one of their products might be counterparts to the Gangi pizza sauce.  I forgot that Escalon does not publish that information on their website. 

Thanks for the link to the Stanislaus tomato products and telling me you see they have four “heavy” pizza sauces.  From when I tasted the Gangi Supreme Heavy pizza sauce awhile ago it sure had a different flavor than any other pizza sauce I have tried before.  You might recall that I said it tasted somewhat bitter to me when tasted plain before it was baked on a pizza.  Somehow the taste changes when it is baked on the pizza, or the cheese just somehow blends to give the right taste.  I have never said that about any other pizza sauce I have tried before that it tasted somewhat bitter.

Norma

[norma427]

Peter,

I have one question to ask you when I call Escalon and that is what do I ask them as how to compare what is on the Nutrition Information for the Gangi Supreme Heavy Sauce with basil compared to the Escalon products.  I am a little bit confused about how to do that. 

I hadn’t received the spec sheet for the Gangi Supreme Heavy Sauce with basil until a little while ago, so I called Pacific Coast Producers again and this time talked with Catherine.  Catherine sent me the spec sheet in a few minutes.  Attached is the requested spec sheet.  This contains information for our different weights.  I think what you're using will be the "super heavy" version.

If you get more information or have any questions please give us a call back.

What I found out that I thought was interesting is that Gangi does make about the same sauce with cheese added.  I didn’t know that before. 

I also searched though this thread some and now recall BOARDWALKER posting at Reply 546  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg121886.html#msg121886 that he tried different sauces, including Gangi from Bova and he only used a heavy hand with oregano and a pinch of black pepper and then water it down and it emerges from  the oven with that distinct sweet and tangy flavor.  Maybe other members that don’t have access to the Gangi Supreme Heavy Sauce with basil could try one of the other tomato sauce products he mentioned in that post if they are interested.

I took pictures of the spec sheet for the Gangi Supreme Heavy Sauce with basil.  If these pictures don’t work, I can try to take better pictures or can try to scan the spec sheet on my printer.  I haven’t had too much luck lately trying to scan anything on my printer though.  I don’t know why the wavy lines show up from taking pictures on my monitor.  I sure don’t see those wavy lines when looking at the monitor.

Norma

[norma427]

I see the pictures are off center and will try to take more pictures.  These are the last two though.

Norma

[norma427]

Well, now I printed out the spec sheet and took pictures.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Before contacting Escalon, can you tell me if the spec sheet you received says "Gangi Supreme Heavy Sauce" (with basil)?

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Before contacting Escalon, can you tell me if the spec sheet you received says "Gangi Supreme Heavy Sauce" (with basil)?

Peter

Peter,

I did copy the picture of Steve holding the Gangi Supreme Super Heavy Sauce with basil (on this thread) and did send it to Catherine to make sure the spec sheet was the right one.  Catherine replied back that the spec sheet for the picture I send was the right one.

The spec sheet doesn't actually say Gangi Supreme Super Heavy Sauce with basil though.

This is the picture I sent Catherine after she sent me the spec sheet.  

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

The spec sheet for the Gangi Extra Heavy sauce indicates the the sauce has an NTSS of 15.5%. NTSS stands for Natural Tomato Soluble Solids. An NTSS of 15.5% has a specific gravity of about 1.07 or 1.08. That means that a cup of the sauce will weigh 7% or 8% more than a cup of water.

In talking with Escalon and Stanislaus, I would give them the specs that you have or else give them the NTSS and specific gravity numbers. From a cursory review, I think it is possible that the tomatoes that Gangi is using are not quite as sweet as the Escalon and Stanislaus tomato products. I also believe that the Gangi Extra Heavy sauce is technically a puree. Both Escalon and Stanislaus should be able to tell from the NTSS and specific gravity numbers which of their products come most closely to the Gangi Extra Heavy sauce.

What is not clear from the spec sheet that you posted is whether the Nutrition Facts are specific to the Gangi Extra Heavy sauce. At this point I would say no but I am not an expert on tomatoes. Maybe you can get further clarification on this and try to get the Nutrition Facts that are just for the Gangi Extra Heavy sauce. That will allow us to do a more complete job of finding comparable products from Escalon and Stanislaus. Of course, you may never have a need to find equivalent products if you have a steady supply of the Gangi product at a good price.

Peter

[Chicago Bob]

Don't know if this will help but...in Norma's pic, just below the nutritional info box there is a list of codes.

5TS3: Super Heavy

Would that code be on the Gangi can?

[norma427]

Norma,

The spec sheet for the Gangi Extra Heavy sauce indicates the the sauce has an NTSS of 15.5%. NTSS stands for Natural Tomato Soluble Solids. An NTSS of 15.5% has a specific gravity of about 1.07 or 1.08. That means that a cup of the sauce will weigh 7% or 8% more than a cup of water.

In talking with Escalon and Stanislaus, I would give them the specs that you have or else give them the NTSS and specific gravity numbers. From a cursory review, I think it is possible that the tomatoes that Gangi is using are not quite as sweet as the Escalon and Stanislaus tomato products. I also believe that the Gangi Extra Heavy sauce is technically a puree. Both Escalon and Stanislaus should be able to tell from the NTSS and specific gravity numbers which of their products come most closely to the Gangi Extra Heavy sauce.

What is not clear from the spec sheet that you posted is whether the Nutrition Facts are specific to the Gangi Extra Heavy sauce. At this point I would say no but I am not an expert on tomatoes. Maybe you can get further clarification on this and try to get the Nutrition Facts that are just for the Gangi Extra Heavy sauce. That will allow us to do a more complete job of finding comparable products from Escalon and Stanislaus. Of course, you may never have a need to find equivalent products if you have a steady supply of the Gangi product at a good price.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for explaining what the spec sheet indicates that the Gangi Extra Heavy sauce has an NTSS of 15.5%.  I didn’t know that means that a cup of the sauce will weigh 7% or 8% more than a cup of water. 

I will try to call Escalon and Stanislaus tomorrow and give them whatever numbers they want to know and see if they have a counterpart product.  At least to me the Gangi Extra Heavy sauce never tasted as sweet as any other tomato product I tried from Escalon or Stanislaus.  If you recall, I posted different times in this thread that the Gangi Extra Heavy sauce had a more tart or bitter taste than any other tomato product that I have tried when tasted plain, but somehow when it is baked on the pizza with the cheese the taste them becomes sweeter.  I don’t understand how that happens, but that has been my experience with the Gangi Extra Heavy sauce. 

What do you consider a puree?  I consider a puree something like the latest Classico product I tried on my last two attempts.  Steve didn’t need to add a lot of water to the Classico product.  When I have tried the Gangi Extra Heavy Sauce for me it is just about like the Stanislaus Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce.  The Saporito is very thick and a lot of water needs to be added.  Somewhere on this thread another member, or members, said equal amounts of Gangi Extra Heavy sauce and water are added for Mack’s sauce.  If you want me to try and locate that post I could search for it. 

I can write to Catherine again and ask her if the spec sheet Nutrition Facts are specific to the Gangi Extra Heavy Sauce.  When I talked to Catherine she told me there are many Gangi tomato products, which kind of surprised me, because I don’t recall many members every talking about Gangi tomato products here on the forum, but different pizzeria businesses must be using the Gangi tomato products if they have foodservice distributors in my area and if Bova Foods is relabeling it under the Bova name.

For this coming week I am not sure if my daughter can take me to Collegeville tomorrow, because she has to work and get ready to go on her business trip.  The trip to Collegeville would take about an hour and a half or longer all depending on how we would go.  The case of the Gangi Extra Heavy Sauce would be 25.00 and some odd cents, but then gas money would have to be figured in that amount and maybe also tolls if we would go the Pa. Turnpike route.  I wouldn’t purchase more than one case of the Gangi Extra Heavy Sauce until I find out if my customers really want a boardwalk style of pizza.  That case when watered down could last for awhile if many customers don’t like a boardwalk style of pizza. 

As I mentioned in my other recent post at Reply 546 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg121886.html#msg121886    BOARDWALKER did ask and received raw sauce from Mack’s and Grotto’s.  He said he purchased the Furmano’s original pizza sauce and duplicated the taste of the raw sauces by watering it down and adding a lot of oregano and a pinch of red pepper.  He also had a slightly better results with Red Pack tomato puree treated the same way.  If I can not get down to Collegeville before Tuesday I might try my local webrestaurant store.  I have seen Furmano tomato products there, but never really looked to see which ones they were.  I need to come up with a tomato product to try for Tuesday if I am going to make a larger dough batch at market of the Mack’s clone dough.

Norma   

[norma427]

Don't know if this will help but...in Norma's pic, just below the nutritional info box there is a list of codes.

5TS3: Super Heavy

Would that code be on the Gangi can?

Bob,

I don't recall if the 5TS3 code was on the other Gangi cans I did have, but I would think that it would be super heavy, but am not really sure.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

What do you consider a puree?  I consider a puree something like the latest Classico product I tried on my last two attempts.

Norma,

There are several classes of purees but they are all defined by Standards of Identity. You can read more on this topic at http://www.pcoastp.com/_files/_files/TP%20R%20003%20Puree%20Oct2009.pdf.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

There are several classes of purees but they are all defined by Standards of Identity. You can read more on this topic at http://www.pcoastp.com/_files/_files/TP%20R%20003%20Puree%20Oct2009.pdf.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for posting there are several classes of purees.  I didn’t know before they all are defined by Standards of Identity.  Thanks also for the link.  It looks like the Gangi Extra Heavy Sauce is a Extra Heavy Puree since the number is at 15.5% NTSS, but it lists that 15.0% NTSS is the end of classifying it as a Extra Heavy Puree.  I am sorry to be asking so many questions, but is 15.0% a cut-off point for classifying it as a Extra Heavy Puree?  I am learning something new on each thread I worked with you, but will never understand it all. 

I just thought of another thing that the foodservice distributor told me in Collegeville.  He asked me if I want the Gangi Extra Heavy Sauce with fresh basil or dried basil.  It looks like the spec sheet I received from Catherine has dried basil listed.  I am now confused on which Gangi product I want when I get to Collegeville.  I don’t really recall what product Steve and I purchased at Bova. 

I am also not sure of which tomato product to try at The WEBstaurant store, if I can’t get to Collegeville for Tuesday.  These are the tomato products The WEBstaurant store offers with listed Nutrition Facts.  http://www.webstaurantstore.com/7227/tomato-product.html  I guess I will have to decide about that soon.  I am not sure which tomato products my local WEBstaurant store offers either. 

Norma

[norma427]

This is the email I sent to Catherine last evening.

Hello Catherine,

I have a few more questions to ask you if you don't mind.  I wanted to ask if the spec sheet you sent me for the Nutrition Facts are specific to the Gangi Extra Heavy Sauce.  Another question I want to ask you if you know by the picture I sent you if that Gangi Extra Heavy Sauce with basil was with fresh basil or dried basil.  Why I wondered if the Gangi Extra Heavy Sauce I used before was with fresh basil or dried basil is because I just recalled that the foodservice distributor asked me if I wanted the Gangi Extra Heavy Sauce with dried basil or fresh basil.  I am now confused in what I tried before.  Maybe you could help me if it isn't too much bother.  I want to order the same product I tried before from the foodservice distributor.  I also want to ask since the Gangi Extra Heavy Sauce is considered a heavy tomato puree if the NTSS number is 15.5%/15.0% since 15.0% seems like the cut-off point for a heavy tomato puree.  Maybe I am not understanding that either.  The Standard of Identity for tomato purees is what I guess has me confused.

If you can't answer my questions, that is okay too.

Thanks for your time and regards,

Norma
Norma's Pizza

This part of my post is just to note that my daughter might be taking me to Collegeville around noontime today to purchase a case of the Gangi Extra Heavy Sauce with basil.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Thanks for posting there are several classes of purees.  I didn’t know before they all are defined by Standards of Identity.  Thanks also for the link.  It looks like the Gangi Extra Heavy Sauce is a Extra Heavy Puree since the number is at 15.5% NTSS, but it lists that 15.0% NTSS is the end of classifying it as a Extra Heavy Puree.  I am sorry to be asking so many questions, but is 15.0% a cut-off point for classifying it as a Extra Heavy Puree?

Norma,

As the Pacific Coast document indicates, a purée that has an NTSS value between 15% and 24% is an Extra Heavy Purée. So, the Gangi Extra Heavy Sauce, at 15.5% NTSS, is an Extra Heavy Purée. Once you get above 24% NTSS, you are perhaps talking about tomato paste.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

As the Pacific Coast document indicates, a purée that has an NTSS value between 15% and 24% is an Extra Heavy Purée. So, the Gangi Extra Heavy Sauce, at 15.5% NTSS, is an Extra Heavy Purée. Once you get above 24% NTSS, you are perhaps talking about tomato paste.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for explaining more.  I understand what a tomato paste is, but sure would think the Gangi Extra Extra Heavy Sauce is a paste from what I have seen when I opened the cans, but I guess I have a lot of learn.

Norma

[norma427]

This was Catherine's reply to my email when I got home from market. 

Hi, Norma, I'm not really sure on the answers, so I'm going to copy in one of our salesman, Pete Hansen.  The ingredients and nutritional information apply to all the weights of pizza sauce but the NTSS and that sort of thing I'm not sure about.   

Pete, I provided Norma at Norma's Pizza with a spec sheet for all styles on Pizza Sauce with Basil, but she's asking about the #10 Gangi Supreme pictured below (see her email below mine for the questions).

She had tried the sauce before and is thinking about buying it again.  She has further questions regarding the sauce itself.  I'm attaching the spec sheet so you can look at what she's seeing, and let me know if it's the wrong one as it indicates dehydrated basil.  From the picture it looks like item# 33556 (upc# 750233335560, but I don't think she has the actual can anymore to verify the upc#).   

I did called the foodservice distributor and am going to pick up a case of the Gangi Supreme Pizza Sauce soon and it is with dried basil.  I called the foodservice distributor this morning and confirmed it is with dried basil.

Now, I got an email from Pete Hansen and he said this.

Hello Norma,

I will be happy to answer all your questions about our pizza sauce. It would be best if I could give you a call or you can call me.
If you send me your phone number I will give you a call.

Thanks,

Pete

I hope I don't mess up when calling Pete and asking the questions I want to know.

Norma

[norma427]

I called Pete Hansen and he said he would send me the spec that was specific to the Gangi Supreme Super Heavy Pizza Sauce with Basil.  Pete said the spec sheet that Catherine send me weren’t specific to the Gangi Supreme Super Heavy Pizza Sauce with Basil.  Pete also did confirm that the basil that is used is not fresh and there are no Gangi products with fresh basil added, because that would be more labor intensive and also would then make the Gangi products higher in price.  Pete said that when dried basil is added it give a more intense basil flavor to any pizza sauce, then when using fresh basil. 

Pete also said there is no Standard of Identity for any pizza sauces.  Pete said there are only Standards for Identity for things like regular tomato sauce, ketchup, tomato juices and tomato products that don’t contain any pieces of tomatoes and there is also a Standard of Identity for tomato pastes.  Pete said the screens that are used helps so there are pieces of tomatoes in their products.  Pete also told me that Stanislaus tomatoes are grown in fields right beside Gangi tomatoes.  He said the tomatoes are exactly the same for both producers of pizza sauces.  He also told me the growing season for tomatoes in California is only from July to September.  Pete told me that all Gangi pizza sauces are from 100% fresh tomatoes and never from concentrates.  He said all the tomatoes have 5.2% sugar when they are harvested and also are about 95% water.  That is when the steaming process starts to make the pizza sauces.  All Gangi sauces only have dried basil and none have fresh basil added.  Pete also told me how many solids the Gangi Supreme Super Pizza sauce has in that product.  Pete also told me of a counterpart to Stanislaus Saporito which is Gangi Super Extra Heavy Pizza Sauce with salt and basil.  He also gave me the solid percent for that Gangi product.  Pete said the Gangi Super Extra Heavy Pizza Sauce with salt and basil would go farther than a can of the Saporito product, because more water can be added.  Pete is going to send me two sample cans of that product.  Pete told me a lot of stuff about Stanislaus too and said he is the person that is at the Vegas Pizza Expo and answers all the questions at the Gangi booth.

If there are any other questions that I should ask Pete, just let me know.

The foodservice distributor’s place was very interesting today.  It didn’t look like much of anything and was in a very small building and was beside a creek.  My case of Gangi sauce was sitting outside on a wooden porch on a metal lawn chair.  There also were big old sprawling buildings around their little office.  I was surprised when I talked to the owners and ask them how long they had been at that place.  The one older gentleman took me to some really old photos and told me to look at the dates.  The one date was 1892 and that I guess what was a kind of advertising for all those years ago and said Occident flour on it.  I asked the older gentleman if they now sell Occident flour, but he said no.  I didn’t know Occident flour was around that many years ago.  He showed me the other photos and their business did include a mill where the older gentleman’s grandfather did run the mill to mill flour.  They also had a coal yard there and the old little building I was in was once a old time grocery store.  The older gentleman told me at one time there was a railroad track that ran by their businesses that picked up the flour and coal.  Since I really like old places I thought all that information was interesting.

Picture of my Maruca’s pitcher ready at market today Tuesday, two pictures of the case of Gangi Sauce and the two spec sheets. 

Norma

[norma427]

Norma