NJ Boardwalk Pizza

[Pete-zza]

Mike,

Those pizzas look terrific. Were they 14" pizzas with KABF/Bob's Red Mill VWG, and 0.50% IDY, one day of fermentation, and baked only on a stone and without using the broiler element? And how did the crusts taste?

From what I have read, a Mack's pizza can look like a NY style but is sometimes described as having a more cracker-like rim. Norma and others who have had the Mack's pizzas will better be able to describe the characteristics of a basic Mack's crust. A Mack's pizza only uses a white cheddar cheese and is supposed to be so oily that the fat drips/rolls of of a slice when held vertically.

Thanks again for pitching in.

Peter

[norma427]

Mike,

I really want to thank you for going along with this experiment.  I appreciate that you are willing to try this without ever tasting a Mack’s pizza. So how did you like the Mack’s pizza?  Your pies look delicious.  Wish I could have been there to taste them.  Could you twirl this pie and how did the dough handle?  I am anxious to make another dough and try out Peter’s formula.  I am still working on the left over parbaked Mack’s pizza.  It sure doesn’t taste like the Mack’s when fresh.  I had asked if they sell dough balls and the pieman said no, but they do sell parbaked that would taste the same when rebaked.  I should have just purchased a fully baked pizza, because in my opinion so far, the parbaked isn’t good. 

I agree with you that Peter’s pie at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg97757.html#msg97757 really looked like a real Mack’s pizza.  I kept looking at Peter’s pie different times.  Since he gives such good detailed instructions, I think anyone can try a Mack’s clone, by reading over his instructions and using his formula.

Norma

Peter,

The Mack’s crust is different from a NY style pizza.  In my opinion the crust is more soft with a little crunch.  That is what is tough to achieve.  I think ERASMO also commented on the crust somewhere in this thread.  He eats Mack’s pizza more than I can.  Maybe he will also comment on this.  I can’t find where he commented on the crust.  I think he commented that the crust is more pastry like.  He has been a great help in finding out what kind of sauce Mack’s uses and also being able to describe how the pies are. 

Norma

[Essen1]

Mike,

Those pizzas look terrific. Were they 14" pizzas with KABF/Bob's Red Mill VWG, and 0.50% IDY, one day of fermentation, and baked only on a stone and without using the broiler element? And how did the crusts taste?

From what I have read, a Mack's pizza can look like a NY style but is sometimes described as having a more cracker-like rim. Norma and others who have had the Mack's pizzas will better be able to describe the characteristics of a basic Mack's crust. A Mack's pizza only uses a white cheddar cheese and is supposed to be so oily that the fat drips/rolls of of a slice when held vertically.

Thanks again for pitching in.

Peter

Peter,

Thank you. No need to thank me for chipping in. You know I'm always up for some pizza projects  But I appreciate it.

I was amazed how well they turned out but I wish I'd have something to compare it to.

Anyway, yes they were 14" pies, with a KABF/Bob's VWG mix, 24hr fermentation (cold, bulk) with a warm-up time of two hours at room temp, baked on my stone at the lowest rack and no broiler this time. The broiler wasn't necessary and I also left it out intentionally because I wanted to achieve a more Stree-slice look rather than an overly charred or browned crust. I think the two pies are somewhere in the middle, though.

The crust was anything like a cracker crust or even remotely crackery. It had a really nice crunch to it but was yet chewy and, imho, has great potential if we can find out more about Mack's pies, sauce ingredients, etc.


Norma,

My pleasure.

It was the first time, regarding the crust, where I felt it was extremely close to NY/NJ style. It could have been the higher amount of oil the formula asked for compared to what I normally use. I don't go much higher than 2% usually, and I use olive oil. But...I could imagine if one would lower the amount of oil down to maybe 2.5% and up the hydration to maybe 59% it could come closer to the real thing.

But then again, I got nothing to compare it to so we all really rely on you for now...

I'll definitely play around with it some more.

[Essen1]

I forgot to mention that the one thing that bugged me a little about the pizzas was the puffiness of the outer rim (cornicione). I was hoping for a less puffy one and more in line with the NJ Boardwalk style.

[norma427]

But then again, I got nothing to compare it to so we all really rely on you for now...

I'll definitely play around with it some more.

Mike,

If you watch in the videos how Mack's piemen handle the dough, they really press the whole dough ball out hard with their fingers, before opening the dough. I had asked the one pieman after I took the video, if his hands don't get tired from doing that all day and he said sometimes they do.    I think you would need strong hands to be able to do that all day. I think that is why the crust is so flat, without many voids.

ERASMO goes to eat Mack's pizza more than I can.  He knows more about the crust than I do.  His help has been great. 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I forgot to mention that the one thing that bugged me a little about the pizzas was the puffiness of the outer rim (cornicione). I was hoping for a less puffy one and more in line with the NJ Boardwalk style.

Mike,

It is possible that the amount of yeast you used, 0.50% IDY, was responsible for the taller rim because of greater gas production. I last used only 0.20% for a 3-day cold fermentation and I intentionally pressed the outer edge of the skin flat so that I would minimize the height of the rim when baked, just as I saw in the video that Norma referenced, at

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs4h5Gr_GKc" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs4h5Gr_GKc</a>

. In your case, were there a lot of bubbles in the dough balls as they tempered at room temperature or in the skins as you were stretching them out to the final size (14")?

Peter

[Essen1]

Norma,

Well, then we have to put Erasmo on the spot, don't we? 


Peter,

No bubbles in the dough balls but there were a few bubbles in the skins but I not a whole lot. I was already thinking to lower the amount of yeast somewhat for a 24hr cold-rise in my next batch, to maybe 0.3%.

[norma427]

Mike,

Here is the other video I posted before, to show how hard they press out the dough.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbZWoq_Kz3o" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbZWoq_Kz3o</a>

Norma

[Essen1]

They also spin it, something I can't do due to a low kitchen ceiling.

But I will try to do it as close as the guy in the video next time.

[Matthew]

They also spin it, something I can't do due to a low kitchen ceiling.

But I will try to do it as close as the guy in the video next time.

Mike,
Nothing wrong with a Rosette made from pizza dough.  If the dough sticks to the ceiling just let it harden then prime & paint.

[ERASMO]

On the crust it had a drier crackery crispy cornicione not chewy like the traditional new york style.

[norma427]

I am trying to narrow down the distributors Mack's  and Mack and Mancos might be using to get all their products for making their pizzas.  Right now, I have narrowed them down to three, until I call them and find out if they carry the Gangi sauce, Kryol flour, and white cheddar. 

After looking though the feature at PMQ that Peter supplied  http://www.pmq.com/distributors/, I think I will call these places in the next few days.  They seem like they would be the logical suppliers for Mack's, but I can't be sure.  They all seem to be in the New Jersey area and some are not to far from Ocean City, NJ and Wildwood, NJ.

http://www.vesuviofoods.com/products.html

http://www.ferrarofoods.com/

http://www.brokeroftheyear.com/

Norma

[ERASMO]

Another though on the crust.  Would the dough act differently when cooked in the rotoflex oven with out stones compared to on the pizza stone?  I would think stone would case more oven spring and bubbles than just a metal floor.  Just a thought.  I am no expert.

[norma427]

ERASMO,

I am not an expert on Roto-Flex ovens, but did look how they operate.  It seems like they can bake on the metal deck or with a stone on the deck.  They are more for high volume pizza businesses that need to be able to produce many pies in a short time. 

http://www.rotoflexoven.com/EXPAGES/gallery.asp

Tony Gemignani explains how to use a Roto- Flex oven in this video.  He says the pizza can be baked on the metal shelf or on a stone.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6stco20IElc" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6stco20IElc</a>

Another short video about Roto-Flex ovens

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1WP_AfhQPI" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1WP_AfhQPI</a>

Norma

[ERASMO]

Thanks for that Norma.  Very Interesting.

I was going to preheat a cookie sheet in the oven and try baking a pizza on that instead of my stone to see what it does to oven spring.

[Pete-zza]

You will also note toward the end of the video at

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs4h5Gr_GKc" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs4h5Gr_GKc</a>

that one of the workers shifts the position of a pizza from one level of the Roto-Flex oven to a higher one. It's hard to know without inquiring whether that is done with all pizzas or whether it is done based on the judgment of the worker and the number of pizzas in the oven at the time.

Peter

[norma427]

You will also note toward the end of the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs4h5Gr_GKc that one of the workers shifts the position of a pizza from one level of the Roto-Flex oven to a higher one. It's hard to know without inquiring whether that is done with all pizzas or whether it is done based on the judgment of the worker and the number of pizzas in the oven at the time.

Peter

ERASMO,

Maybe when you are able to visit Mack's pizza again, you can watch to see if they shift the positions of their pizzas.  When I was there, I didn't see them doing that.  I don't know if it was because they weren't very busy or not.   

Norma

[norma427]

I called the 3 places I thought could be a possibility for distributors at the Jersey shore. The B&S distributors is a cheese broker, but the lady I talked to said she would have distributors call me that deliver in the area between Stone Harbor and Cape May. Minimum delivery of cheese from B&S  is 1,000 lbs.

Ferraro Foods does deliver to those locations, but doesn’t carry Kyrol flour or Gangi Sauce They carried Packer mild white cheddar. 

Vesuvio Foods does deliver to those locations, also.  They said they stock 7,000 items, ranging from pizza ovens to food products.  They said they do carry Kyrol flour, different brands of mild white cheddar, including Sommer Maid which is their most popular sellers, and I  am not sure about the Gangi Sauce.  I did talk to one of the managers and when I asked him about the Gangi Sauce he said they carried Super Dolce. I knew this was a Stanilaus product.  I said I wanted to see if they carried Gangi Supreme and then he said they do carry that brand.  I am not to sure of this because when I went on their website, it doesn’t show they carry the Gangi Surpreme in the drop down menu.  They also deliver in my area, but you need a 500.00 minimum order.  When I told the manger I wanted to use some mild white cheddar on my pizzas, he couldn’t believe I wanted to use mild white cheddar on a pizza.  I told him I knew places at the shore that did use all mild white cheddar on their pizzas and he said they were in the minority.  He asked me if I was Italian.  When I said no, he was wondering how I knew about opening a pizza shop. LOL He said he would send a sales rep to my market stand to give me free samples.  Maybe I will get lucky with some cheese.

To sum these calls up, I don’t really know if the Vesuvio Foods is a place that could be delivering to Macks or not, but the rest of them probably wouldn’t be.

I told each place I was looking for a place at the shore to open a pizzeria for my son, in the next year. My son lives in Florida.   

Norma

[Essen1]

Mike,
Nothing wrong with a Rosette made from pizza dough.  If the dough sticks to the ceiling just let it harden then prime & paint.

What color would you suggest, Sir? 

[norma427]

Mike,

You can wait for Matt’s response, but while you wait you can watch this video on throwing the dough.  You really don’t have to throw it that high.  The throwing demo is at the end of this video.  Starts around 2:35.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wteq8G3q1zI" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wteq8G3q1zI</a>

I like your new avatar..LOL..quite colorful.   

Norma