Author Topic: NJ Boardwalk Pizza  (Read 253037 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #625 on: April 15, 2011, 11:00:11 AM »
Norma

I will weigh a macks pizza next time we get one.



ERASMO,

Thanks a lot for posting that you will weigh a Mack's pizza the next time you buy one.  ;D That will help this thread a lot. You have already helped this thread many times. I know you have bought Mack's pizza many times.  What I would like to ask you is, when you see them free throwing all that cheese and also not weighing the sauce that is put on their pizzas, don't you think there could be different weights when each pizza is weighed?  That is also stumping me on trying to know how much cheese or sauce to add.  When I watched them different times it seemed like different amounts of cheese and sauce were added to each pizza.

Norma


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #626 on: April 15, 2011, 11:23:44 AM »
I donít know what TF to try for my next attempt.  From the pictures I provided in the above links, and what you posted about TF, what do you think I should try when I used the expanded dough calculation tool for my next attempt?

I donít know if any other members that can eat a Mackís pizza more than I can, could also weigh a real Mackís pizza to help this thread.  Maybe that would also help, until I can visit Mackís again.  I know it is hard to able to know exactly the weight of Mackís dough balls even from seeing all the pictures posted and also from my limited weighing of the pizza baked and unbaked with the cheese and sauce.  Also, what amount in weight of cheese and sauce do you recommend for my next attempt?

Norma,

I think I would rather see you try to repeat your last results, using the same values for everything, whether your next iteration is at home or at market. Obviously, a market version baked in your deck oven would be a better test because you wouldn't be introducing a new variable (your home oven) into the equation. Since ERASMO has offered to do a weighing fo the next Mack's pizza he buys, we may also get some newer/better numbers to work with.

Peter

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #627 on: April 15, 2011, 11:34:27 AM »
I will weigh a macks pizza next time we get one.

ERASMO,

Thank for offering. That should help although, as Norma has mentioned, "free throwing" things is prone to fairly wide swings in weights. Those variations might also affect bake times, which might affect weight losses. But I would rather have the information than not. That might at least get us into the "zone". The piece of information that would be most useful at this point, especially if coupled with the baked pizza weight that you get on your scale (I prefer grams if that is possible), would be the weight of a typical Mack's dough ball. However, I realize that that may be asking for too much. Also, pizza assemblers often don't have the foggiest idea as to what the dough balls weigh that they use to make pizzas day after day.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #628 on: April 15, 2011, 11:59:44 AM »
Norma,

I think I would rather see you try to repeat your last results, using the same values for everything, whether your next iteration is at home or at market. Obviously, a market version baked in your deck oven would be a better test because you wouldn't be introducing a new variable (your home oven) into the equation. Since ERASMO has offered to do a weighing fo the next Mack's pizza he buys, we may also get some newer/better numbers to work with.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for your thoughts about what I should try for my next iteration.  I am going to do the next attempt at market, so I can see if my results are consistent with my last results.  I will use the same formula with the same flour, and also the same TF, but might change the oil to soybean oil.  All depends if I have time to purchase some soybean oil.  I might add a little less of the cheese blend and sauce to get more in line with the looks of a real Mackís pizza. I also hope with ERASMOís kind offer of weighing a real Mackís pizza, we might be able to newer/better numbers to work with.

Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #629 on: April 15, 2011, 12:38:40 PM »
ERASMO,

Thanks a lot for posting that you will weigh a Mack's pizza the next time you buy one.  ;D That will help this thread a lot. You have already helped this thread many times. I know you have bought Mack's pizza many times.  What I would like to ask you is, when you see them free throwing all that cheese and also not weighing the sauce that is put on their pizzas, don't you think there could be different weights when each pizza is weighed?  That is also stumping me on trying to know how much cheese or sauce to add.  When I watched them different times it seemed like different amounts of cheese and sauce were added to each pizza.

Norma

Well, they definately do it freehand but they seem very consistent.  The pizza men have alot of repetition there!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #630 on: April 15, 2011, 01:29:50 PM »
I will use the same formula with the same flour, and also the same TF, but might change the oil to soybean oil.  All depends if I have time to purchase some soybean oil. 

Norma,

Soybean oil is sold as "vegetable oil", and formerly as "salad oil" (the term that Tom Lehmann usually uses, which dates the man), so you may already have some in your cupboard.

Peter

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #631 on: April 15, 2011, 01:40:21 PM »
Well, they definately do it freehand but they seem very consistent.  The pizza men have alot of repetition there!

ERASMO,

You are right about that. It is always interesting to see how people who do repetitive tasks in great numbers are able to get very close on each item they estimate. It is where there are different workers that variations occur, at least until they get up to speed. Looking at the Mack's videos and photos, I noticed that there have been several pizza makers at Mack's over time so I would expect variations in the cheese and toppings that go onto their pizzas. It would be easy I think for Mack's to go to portioning cups on the cheese. I think it would save them a lot of money. Also, as they and/or Mack & Manco's expand their operations (I notice that there are franchising opportunities: http://www.mackandmancopizzatoo.com/franchise.asp), you would want to nail down everything as much as possible to give franchisees the best chance to make money.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #632 on: April 15, 2011, 05:01:06 PM »
Norma,

Soybean oil is sold as "vegetable oil", and formerly as "salad oil" (the term that Tom Lehmann usually uses, which dates the man), so you may already have some in your cupboard.

Peter

Peter,

I do have Crisco oil in my cupboard, but the label is off.  I guess Crisco is vegetable oil or the same as soybean oil.  I really donít know.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #633 on: April 17, 2011, 05:31:24 PM »
I used the same formula as I posted last time at Reply 595 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg134713.html#msg134713 and the only thing I changed in this mix, was I added the vegetable oil last before the 8 minute mix time on speed 2.  I did use Crisco oil this time, instead of the Canola oil, that I used the last time in the formula.

This is a picture what the dough looked like right after it came out of the mixer bowl, mixed in the Kitchen Aid mixer.

Norma

Peter,

I either must have missed the last sentence of your post at Reply 619 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg135306.html#msg135306 or either you might have edited that post.


Norma,
 
And do they pay for the privilege?

Peter

My standholders, maintenance men, or even customers donít pay to try samples of any test pizzas I make.  If someone wants to buy a slice of one of the test pizzas, then I charged them less than I normally do charge for a slice.  Sometimes if there are leftovers slices of test pizzas, my one friend near the end of the night will buy them all.  Some customers walk by and ask what kind of pizza is sitting on the racks sometimes.  The one thing that I find interesting about that is, if it is a Greek pizza or a pizza that I say has all or mostly cheddar, they stick their noses up at the word cheddar.  They donít know what they are missing.  I guess most people think pizza should just have mozzarella as the cheese.

Norma
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 05:47:30 PM by norma427 »


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #634 on: April 17, 2011, 05:43:09 PM »
Norma,

I think what happened is that I was editing as you were posting.

In your last post, you mentioned olive oil. Did you mean Crisco vegetable oil (soybean)?

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #635 on: April 17, 2011, 05:48:27 PM »
Norma,

I think what happened is that I was editing as you were posting.

In your last post, you mentioned olive oil. Did you mean Crisco vegetable oil (soybean)?

Peter

Peter,

I edited my post.  I did use Crisco oil today.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #636 on: April 18, 2011, 06:42:26 PM »
If anyone is interested, this is how the Mackís dough looked today at market.  As can been seen the dough isnít fermenting very fast and does have a yellowish hue.  Pinocchio & Jiminy Cricket are waiting for another attempt at a Mackís pizza.

Pictures of dough ball top and bottom.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #637 on: April 20, 2011, 08:24:41 AM »
For my next attempt at the Mackís pizza, I used my regular tomato sauce I use at market to see if the taste of the tomato sauce has something to do with how a Mackís pizza would taste with a different tomato sauce other than a paste with added oregano, a little sugar, black pepper and water.  Although this crust did almost taste and look like a Mackís pizza, the flavor of my regular tomato sauce really threw the taste of the whole pizza attempt off.  I did use less of the cheese blend than I used on my last attempt.  I also watered my regular tomato sauce down and the sauce I applied was thinner. This attempt wasnít as greasy as my last attempt either.  Next week I might try WalMartís tomato paste or my paste like I did last week.  Just by using my regular tomato sauce, this pizza didnít taste the same as last week. 

I canít decide if I liked the crust of this attempt better than last week, made with the Canola oil.  This week I had used Crisco oil in the formula.  To me this crust tasted different than last week, when I used Canola oil, but still was good.  Now I canít decide if I want to change back to Canola oil or not.

The dough fermented about the same as last week.  I left the dough ball warm-up for about 2 hours.  With the formula I used, the dough doesnít ferment too fast.  The dough was easy to open and it could be thrown.  I had to place a screen under the pizza again, near the end of the bake, because it wanted to brown too fast.  Even though this attempt did look more like a Mackís pizza in the way the cheese and sauce were applied, my last attempt tasted more in line with a Mackís pizza.

Steve, Pinocchio & Jiminy Cricket mentioned they like my attempt last week better. I would agree with them.

Pictures below

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #638 on: April 20, 2011, 08:28:15 AM »
more pictures

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #639 on: April 20, 2011, 08:30:36 AM »
more pictures

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #640 on: April 20, 2011, 08:33:15 AM »
end of pictures

Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #641 on: April 20, 2011, 10:04:43 AM »
Norma,

I know the tomato paste thing seems weird but, stick with it, I think it makes a very unique flavor.  My Mack's audience doesn't know how to make a pizza but they sure know how to erase one.  The Macks clone recipe you gave me earlier must have reminded them of something, not because of what they said, but because of how silent they were until we got down to the last piece and they could breathe again.  

My guess is, anybody who shoots sauce from a hose probably is not fussing over the freshest tomatoes they can have grown for them.  Also, to get it through the hose they can't have too many chunks/skins etc.  I know from beer brewing, lots of solids in a pumped substance can cause clogs by "bridging", can't have that.  Not to say that your paste recipe is cheap or bad, well, it may be cheap, but the flavor once baked is really good.  I think its valid to assume that Mack's is not into the highest priced/quality ingredients as much as they are at cutting cost corners and making a really tasty product...a valid business model.

Keep up the good work for the benefit of man kind.  This is a truly awesome style of pizza that breaks a lot of rules but delivers unique flavors in its unpretentiousness.

Ron


Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #642 on: April 20, 2011, 02:07:17 PM »
Norma,

I know the tomato paste thing seems weird but, stick with it, I think it makes a very unique flavor.  My Mack's audience doesn't know how to make a pizza but they sure know how to erase one.  The Macks clone recipe you gave me earlier must have reminded them of something, not because of what they said, but because of how silent they were until we got down to the last piece and they could breathe again.  

My guess is, anybody who shoots sauce from a hose probably is not fussing over the freshest tomatoes they can have grown for them.  Also, to get it through the hose they can't have too many chunks/skins etc.  I know from beer brewing, lots of solids in a pumped substance can cause clogs by "bridging", can't have that.  Not to say that your paste recipe is cheap or bad, well, it may be cheap, but the flavor once baked is really good.  I think its valid to assume that Mack's is not into the highest priced/quality ingredients as much as they are at cutting cost corners and making a really tasty product...a valid business model.

Keep up the good work for the benefit of man kind.  This is a truly awesome style of pizza that breaks a lot of rules but delivers unique flavors in its unpretentiousness.

Ron

Ron,

I knew what brand of sauce Mackís was using and had used the real Gangi sauce Steve had bought for me, so I already knew what the raw sauce and the Gangi sauce baked on a pizza would taste like. The real Gangi sauce bought at Bova did cost 8.99 for a can.  I donít know what kind of price Mackís pays for their Gangi sauce, but would think it would be a lot cheaper from a distributor. I didnít really like the taste of the real Gangi sauce, but when baked on the attempts at the Mackís pizza, it changed for the better.  I want to experiment with WalMartís brand of paste.  I think, but donít know, it will almost taste like the Gangi sauce.  I watched the Gangi sauce come though those hoses at Mackís and saw their wasnít anything like tomato peels or anything that could obstruct the sauce coming though those hoses.  I only wanted to try my own regular paste with the ingredients I add to see if that would really change the flavor profile of the attempt I made yesterday.  It did really change the whole flavor profile of the whole pizza.

One of Mackís piemen explained to me that the use of the hose is to save a couple seconds in preparing each pizza.  I can understand how the hose does save time. 

I also believe this is a awesome pizza if it is done right, but I am biased because I have enjoyed Mackís pizza since I was young. 

I am glad your audience did enjoy your Mackís pizzas.  That was a good sign that they devoured your pizza, until they could breathe again.  Congrats on making such a good pizza for your guests!  ;D

There is so much to learn when trying to clone a pizza.  Although we might never get this Mackís pizza exactly right, at least we will know that we tried.

Norma

Offline PiedPiper

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #643 on: May 18, 2011, 05:33:30 PM »
Just got back from bringing a M&M (M&M Too in Somers Point) pie home, there wasent much to see but i did noticed that the oven did fluctuate from 500 degrees - 513 degrees.  If anyone needs me to get another one and weight, let me know, im only 5 minutes away and here till the 29th

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #644 on: May 18, 2011, 07:19:36 PM »
Just got back from bringing a M&M (M&M Too in Somers Point) pie home, there wasent much to see but i did noticed that the oven did fluctuate from 500 degrees - 513 degrees.  If anyone needs me to get another one and weight, let me know, im only 5 minutes away and here till the 29th

Just ask them exactly, "What types of cheeses are in the cheese blend used on the pizza?" and take note of what they say. ;) :angel:

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #645 on: May 18, 2011, 09:33:45 PM »
Just got back from bringing a M&M (M&M Too in Somers Point) pie home, there wasent much to see but i did noticed that the oven did fluctuate from 500 degrees - 513 degrees.  If anyone needs me to get another one and weight, let me know, im only 5 minutes away and here till the 29th

PiedPiper,

It would be helpful to have the weight of a baked M&M pizza.  I noticed too, when I went to Mackís pizza the ovens did fluctuate. I wonder if M&M would sell you a dough ball.  I had asked at Mackís and they wouldnít sell me a dough ball. I wish I could be eating a M&M pizza.

Thanks for your help on this thread!

Norma

Offline PiedPiper

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #646 on: May 18, 2011, 10:23:13 PM »
PiedPiper,

It would be helpful to have the weight of a baked M&M pizza.  I noticed too, when I went to Mackís pizza the ovens did fluctuate. I wonder if M&M would sell you a dough ball.  I had asked at Mackís and they wouldnít sell me a dough ball. I wish I could be eating a M&M pizza.

Thanks for your help on this thread!

Norma

Ill get another and weigh it (after all its all in the name of science  :-D)  Ill even scrape the sauce/cheese off a slice and weigh the crust alone if it will help, just let me know.  Tonights pizza was grossly misshapen, still tasted the same though, (ill post a picture tomorrow)  dIts almost like M&M Too is a training store for their original up on the boardwalk.

Just ask them exactly, "What types of cheeses are in the cheese blend used on the pizza?" and take note of what they say. ;) :angel:

Ill also ask about the cheese blend but im thinking this is not information they regularly give out.  Tonight tho i could swear it was a mozzarella/provolone/white cheddar blend

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #647 on: May 18, 2011, 10:33:11 PM »
Ill even scrape the sauce/cheese off a slice and weigh the crust alone if it will help, just let me know.

PiedPiper,

That will be helpful. Slices aren't exactly the same size but the extrapolation for the entire pizza should be helpful and might tell us whether we are in the ballpark with our numbers. The total baked weight will also be useful to know.

Thank you for offering to help.

Peter

Offline matermark

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #648 on: May 18, 2011, 10:42:57 PM »
Ill also ask about the cheese blend but im thinking this is not information they regularly give out.  Tonight tho i could swear it was a mozzarella/provolone/white cheddar blend

That's why it's important to say it exactly worded that way. I doubt they would reveal everything if it is a blend, but I'm pretty sure they said it's not a blend... or was that Norma? Someone said one thing, someone else said something else. Maybe we can get it from the horse's mouth this time. :-D

Offline PiedPiper

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #649 on: May 20, 2011, 01:00:58 PM »
Sorry for the late pictures all, havent had much down time.  Ill try to get another pie to weigh either tonight or tomorrow when their A team should be on.  Here is the misshapen one I got on Wednesday, I also took a pic of a sauce-less portion of the cheese.  Hopefully this helps unwrap our cheese riddle!



« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 01:11:02 PM by PiedPiper »