NJ Boardwalk Pizza

[norma427]

Peter,

I knew the thermodynamics in a deck oven were different than a home oven, but never thought about how that would change the weight loss.  At least these two clones threads are teaching me more about different things.  My deck oven was at 525 degrees F and I know if I baked this same pie at home, I probably would get different results.  I will have to try this same recipe at home and see if there is a difference in the weight loss.  I know my baked time will probably be longer, because my home oven doesn’t have the same head space or stone mass as the deck oven. 

What really intrigues me is, when using my regular preferment for the Lehmann dough in the BBQ set-up and also in the deck oven, I can get similar results, with using different baked temperatures.  If I let my regular preferment for the Lehmann dough a little thicker and have more rim at market, I can also get big bubbles in the rim.  Even with making cheesy breadsticks and the dough is put on parchment paper, in a aluminum pan, there also can be a big airy rim and that dough is opened up the same as the regular 16" pies I make.  I haven’t been able to figure this out, but am going to keep watching to see what is going on.

I remember that you are using an 18" pizza screen in conjunction with a smaller pizza stone.  I also know you are always looking for a challenge.  At some point I will also try an 18" Mack’s clone. 
   
Thanks for the explanation,

Norma

[Jerry]

Peter, Norma, ERASMO, and all the other contributors to this thread,

I just got done reading this entire thread. What a story! Corporate spying, flim flam artists, insiders, research and development, the jersey shore, the boardwalk, and best of all Mack & Mancos! This is a real nail-biter. Will they find the grail? I can't wait to find out! In all seriousness, I would go to see a movie about your adventures. It wouldn't be a typical Hollywood movie with lots of sex and violence, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I guess I have the advantage of being able to picture in my mind's eye most of what you describe. I went to Wildwood as a kid, then took my kids to Ocean City. We all love M&M. It is the standard that all other pizza shops have to live up to in the other places we've lived (and they always fall short). I have been googling M&M ever since there was an internet, to see if there was any recipe info, and finally here it is. I'm really rooting for you, and I will probably try one of your interim recipes. I tried to reproduce an M&M a long time ago, but I was way off. My wife always said there was cheddar cheese involved. Hopefully I can help you all by trying some of your recipes and giving some feedback. Anyway, keep up the good work!

Jerry

[norma427]

Jerry,

It’s been a great journey to find how out how Mac and Mancos or Mack’s pizza might be able to be reverse-engineered.  Everyone has been helpful along the way.  I hope you also join us in the search for a clone pie.  Everyone that has tried their pies can be a great help.  At least you know how they are supposed to taste.  I can relate to your story of this type of pie being the standard that other pizza shops have to live up to.  That is what I thought for many years.  Your wife must have good taste buds if she knew there must have been some cheddar in the pie.  I never would have thought that, until I started researching about Mack’s or Mac and Mancos pizza.

Yes, this whole thread is about spying, flim flam artists, insiders, research, development, the Jersey shore, the boardwalk and also the biggest star is the pizza.  Who knows what might come next.  I appreciate you took the time to read this whole thread.  It must have taken you awhile.  I'm sure everyone on this thread appreciates what you have said.  Picturing in your mind all the great things the Jersey Shore has to offer is all about memories about what you grew up with and you have even now given your children memories they never will forget.  I am glad you also had a great time at the Jersey Shore and enjoyed the NJ Boardwalk pizza.

Thanks for the kind comments,

Norma

[ERASMO]

I tried using the Acme brand longhorn mild white cheddar on a pizza the other day and the cheese flavor was definately close to the macks cheese flavor.  I would recommend giving it a try.

Norma,

The latest attempts look great!!

Are you still using the same dough formulation?

[norma427]

ERASMO,

Thanks for telling us the Acme brand of longhorn mild white cheddar does get close to the Mack’s pizza taste.  I don’t think there are any Acme’s supermarkets around my area any more, but will check.  How many types of longhorn mild white cheddar have you tried?

This is the current formula I used for the clone attempt on Tuesday. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg100438.html#msg100438   

I mixed the dough by hand on Monday and cold fermented it until Tuesday.  I really pressed the dough out by hand first, then opened the skin.  It did seem to open up easily and also could be twirled.  I am still thinking about what I could change.  The higher oil percentage seemed to help. In my opinion the dough cold fermented for one day seemed to help make the crust taste much better and closer to a real Mack’s pizza.

Thanks for saying the recent attempt looked great,

Norma

[ERASMO]

Norma

This was my first try at 100% longhorn mild white.  I have tried combinations using Grande East coast blend and sharp cheddar mixed about 50/50 and it was a good flavor but not Macks flavor. 

Next time I go and get the Acme cheddar I will get some extra, freeze and UPS to you. I am in Chester county so shipping will be fast. Please PM me your best address.  I am anxious for you to try!

[norma427]

Norma

This was my first try at 100% longhorn mild white.  I have tried combinations using Grande East coast blend and sharp cheddar mixed about 50/50 and it was a good flavor but not Macks flavor. 

Next time I go and get the Acme cheddar I will get some extra, freeze and UPS to you. I am in Chester county so shipping will be fast. Please PM me your best address.  I am anxious for you to try!

ERASMO,

I know I had the same experiences in all the mild white cheddars that I tried before and while they are good on a pizza, but not the taste of Mack’s pizza.  I think for the cheese to be so oily like Mack’s, it needs to be high in fat.  If you think about the next time you purchase some cheese see if the label is on how much fat is in the longhorn mild white cheddar or ask someone behind the deli counter if they know how much fat is in the Acme brand.

I will PM you my address, but will also look in my area if there are any Acme supermarkets anymore.  There used to be many in my area, but can’t remember where there are any at the moment.  I let you know if I find any Acme’s in my area.

I am also anxious to try out the Acme brand of longhorn mild white cheddar since you said it tastes close to the real Mack’s pizza. 

Thanks,

Norma

[jever4321]

I didn't take the time to read the entire thread, (so I appologize if this has beed discussed and since I have never had mack's pizza I'm just guessing here.) but have you tried to put some grated Pecorino & Ramano cheese on your pie?

[Pete-zza]

Jason,

Mack's does not use Pecorino Romano or any other Romano cheese on its pizzas but I have used it to make clones of Papa Gino's pizzas. PG uses a blend of mozzarella cheese, white cheddar cheese and grated Romano cheese. It is a great blend.

Peter

[jever4321]

Jason,

Mack's does not use Pecorino Romano or any other Romano cheese on its pizzas but I have used it to make clones of Papa Gino's pizzas. PG uses a blend of mozzarella cheese, white cheddar cheese and grated Romano cheese. It is a great blend.

Peter

That's the cheese blend I'm using tonight. P&R gives a nice sharp flavor.

[norma427]

My daughter drove me to Downingtown, Pa. Acme tonight to get some Acme Longhorn Style Mild Cheddar Cheese to use on the next attempt for a Mack's pizza.  On the back of the package it says the Longhorn Style Mild Cheddar Cheese is distributed by Albertsons, Inc. Boise, Idaho.  The cheese has 9 grams of fat.

Norma

[scott r]

wow, 9 grams.   Ill bet thats exactly what you have been looking for.   No wonder people love macs pizza so much!

[norma427]

wow, 9 grams.   Ill bet thats exactly what you have been looking for.   No wonder people love macs pizza so much!

scott r,

ERASMO is the member that mentioned he had tried the Acme brand of longhorn style of mild white cheddar.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg102999.html#msg102999
   
The taste of Mack’s cheese is what is so puzzling.  Mack’s probably does purchase their cheese in 40 lb. blocks.  That is why we are having problems trying to replicate the taste of their cheese.  I think the higher fat will help in this next attempt. This Acme Brand, does look a lot different, than what I purchased for my last attempt.  I didn’t open it up and taste it, but will before I try the cheese on the next attempt.

I will research more about private label cheeses for Albertson’s and see if I can find out what company in Wisconsin might be providing Albertson’s with the private label longhorn style mild white cheddar cheese.  That might take awhile.  Private labeling is a big business for many food items.

Norma

[norma427]

After a little searching with Google, I found out some about how big private labeling is for cheeses.  This is one of the companies that provide private labeling for cheese.  It looks like they are a big player in the market of private labeling and sell to many fast food drive-ins, food retailers, schools, colleges, and many other places.

http://www.answers.com/topic/schreiber-foods-inc

In my opinion if we ever find a cheese to taste like Mack’s pizza on the retail level, it is going to be hard for members or guests to find a cheese that tastes like Mack’s all over the country.

Norma

[ERASMO]

On the topic of the Mild White Cheddar the problem I am running into is being able to buy in smaller quantities.  There are three pizza supply distributors around me that all sell a different Wisc. White Mild Cheddar but nothing smaller than 40lb block.

Maybe I need to call some of the producers and see if they can provide samples.

I called the Grande Company and the sales rep. delivered a few nice small sample bags for us to try.

[thezaman]

we have a pizzeria that my supplier sells to that uses white cheddar that he mixes with mozzarella .his pizza is very popular in our area. they sell it under the name of yala block ,yala being the pizzeria name . it comes in a 5 pound block similar to a block of mozzarella .i think it is available for sale to any account, if you want i could ship a block on dry ice. i think it makes the pizza very oily ,but that is what his cusomers love about it.pm if you want me to work on this.

[norma427]

ERASMO,

I have also run into the same problem.  I did get Foremost Farms to send me a sample, but the blend wasn’t an all cheddar.  They do sell 40 lb. blocks of white cheddar, but don’t even have samples in smaller amounts.

Best of luck to you in getting samples and then sampling them on your attempts to make a Mack’s pizza. In my opinion if we are ever going to find a cheese similar to how Mack’s tastes like, it is going to be hard to find it around many areas for forum members or guests that want to try a Mack’s clone pizza. 

Maybe it won’t be impossible, but in my opinion it will be hard.

Norma

thezaman,

Thanks for saying you would ship some white cheddar.  I had purchased a 5 lb. block of white cheddar from my distributor and it was oily, but still didn’t have the taste of Mack’s cheese.  In my opinion there are so many brands of mild white cheddar, even in wholesale.  We could be trying 5 lb. blocks for a long while and still not find the right one. 
I will think about what you just mentioned.

Thanks for your help,

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

You might recall in an earlier post, at Reply 112 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg97026/topicseen.html#msg97026, I mentioned that I found white cheddar cheeses in my local supermarkets that had 10 grams of fat and 11 grams of fat. However, most were around 9 grams. So, what you have found with the Acme brand is pretty standard from a fat content standpoint.

I am very familiar with Schreiber. They are the second largest cheese producer in the world. I used to use one of their mongrel brand mozzarella cheeses, Best Choice, until the store where I purchased that cheese changed hands. The store was a former Albertson's company.

As best I can tell, Acme Markets is a part of a mega-retail company called SUPERVALU, which is an aggregation of many local and regional store brands. When Albertson's pulled out of several markets around the country, including most of their Texas properties, SUPERVALU purchased many of their stores.

It will be interesting to see if you agree with ERASMO on his assessment of the Acme cheese.

As far as the availability issue is concerned, that is likely only to be an issue for those who have had the Mack's pizzas before. There are many very good white cheddar cheeses around that have very nice flavors and should serve one well even if not a clone of the Mack's white cheddar cheese. In my case, I would like to find a white cheddar cheese that doesn't break down too much during baking and oil off excessively.

Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

Different mild white cheddars or sharp white cheddars were oily, but the taste of Mack’s pizza is really different because of the taste of the cheese.  I don’t think it really the crust or sauce that makes it that special, but in my opinion it is the cheese. 

I am also interested in trying the Acme brand and seeing how that tastes compared to Mack’s cheese.  If I have time this coming Monday, I will make another dough, to try at market on Tuesday. 

I do remember you mentioning how high the fat content was of the other cheeses you had look at.

That is interesting to find out that Acme Markets could be part of the company called SUPERVALU.  There are so many companies that are owned by bigger companies. 

If we can ever find out the specific brand of cheese that Mack’s pizza is using, then in my opinion we could go from there and see if the company produces the cheese to the retail market or some private label company that would then sell it to local supermarkets.  Might require some more DD.

After I was looking at different private label companies I saw it looked like Schreiber was a big player in the cheese market.

Hopefully some day we will find a cheese that most members or guests can find.

Norma

[norma427]

I want to thank ERASMO for telling me to try the Acme Brand of longhorn style mild white cheddar.    This cheese really comes very close to how a Mack’s pie tastes and looks in terms of the cheese.  Steve and I tasted the cheese earlier to see how it tastes and now I know if I try another brand of cheese, what this is supposed to taste like.  It even melts like Mack’s cheese and is oily, when using this cheese in a Mack's style pizza.

I did change the formula by just one variable.  I decreased the IDY to see if there would be less bubbles in the skin.  This formula was for a 16" clone style Mack’s pizza.

Flour (100%):    284.64 g  |  10.04 oz | 0.63 lbs
Water (55%):                156.55 g  |  5.52 oz | 0.35 lbs
IDY (0.25%):         0.71 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.24 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
Salt (2%):                     5.69 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.02 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
Olive Oil (6%):       17.08 g | 0.6 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.8 tsp | 1.27 tbsp
Sugar (2%):         5.69 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.43 tsp | 0.48 tbsp
Total (165.25%):    470.37 g | 16.59 oz | 1.04 lbs | TF = 0.08252

In my opinion this was the closest attempt to a Mack’s pizza to date, that I achieved. 

Norma