NJ Boardwalk Pizza

[norma427]

Wow, the Mack's pie is unbelieveably thin, considering that it's a plain pie not weighted down by a lot of toppings. Are they making it at a TF of .09 or less, or does their dough just lack oven spring ?

-JLP

JLP,

Mack's pie is a thin pizza.  I have been using a thickness factor of .08252.  We don't really know what the thickness factor is, but I did weigh a pizza that was par-baked.  We don't know exactly how much sauce or cheese Mack's puts on their pizzas because they just use the hose to put on the sauce and they free-throw the cheese.  In my opinion the Mack's pizzas do lack oven spring.  If you watch one of the videos they really press on the dough ball while opening it.  In some peoples opinion this doesn't affect oven spring.  I can't decide whether the formula does that or if it is the way Mack's piemen open their dough.   

Norma

[ERASMO]

     On the oven spring topic, do you think the low oven spring could have something to do with the metal shelves in the rotoflex oven as compared to stones.  I tried putting my new york style dough on my pizza stone and compared it to cooking on a pizza pan and the dough on the pan had very little oven spring compared to the dough cooked on the stone.

[Pete-zza]

     On the oven spring topic, do you think the low oven spring could have something to do with the metal shelves in the rotoflex oven as compared to stones.  I tried putting my new york style dough on my pizza stone and compared it to cooking on a pizza pan and the dough on the pan had very little oven spring compared to the dough cooked on the stone.

ERASMO,

I know from experience what you are talking about but I don't think that that is the explanation. Metal pans, and also metal disks and screens, go into the oven cold and must heat up to temperature before the pizzas can bake. As a result, there is usually a reduction in oven spring. There may be differences between the metal deck of a Roto-Flex oven and a stone deck, such as thermal conductivity and heat absorption/retention, and maybe it doesn't absorb moisture from a skin the same way as a stone would, but so long as it is at the desired bake temperature the pizzas should bake up similarly to a stone deck. There may be preferences between using a metal deck and a stone deck and, to accommodate those preferences, Roto-Flex offers a stone deck option.

Peter

[PizzaEater101]

CAPSLOCK,

I also remembered the Mack's pizza from more than 20 years ago.  I didn't know the West Coast was such a pizza deprived area.  I think you would be able to get better results in making your own pizzas.  Great you are making your own pizzas.   

Norma

I know this is an old reply but I have heard people from back east say that out in the west you can't find a decent pizza.  We are not deprived in the sense of not having enough pizza eateries but just it's not good so we are deprived.  These are back east people talking who visited the wild west but for me a native Californian I have tried a lot of pizza places and have found some really good pizza.  If I was from back east I might feel different.

I have only been back east once and that was to Florida.  First time to the south too.  Best of both worlds, the south and the east, I guess southeast.  I went to Kentucky which isn't quite back east but it's out that way but they are not known for pizza either.  It's supposed to be the south but it's barely the south. I say barely.  Also went there expecting to get some barbecue.  Yeah right.  There are more bbq joints in the wild west than there are in KY.  But overall I liked Kentucky.

[PizzaEater101]

Norma, I decided against calling up Mack's and order a non-baked pizza shipped in dry ice out here to Los Angeles.  I have decided though on trying out yours, Pete's and others Mack's recipe the best I can without having to have had a Mack's.  Well, Pete is in my boat too he never been out that way to try one either.

[norma427]

Norma, I decided against calling up Mack's and order a non-baked pizza shipped in dry ice out here to Los Angeles.  I have decided though on trying out yours, Pete's and others Mack's recipe the best I can without having to have had a Mack's.  Well, Pete is in my boat too he never been out that way to try one either.

PizzaEater101,

You are probably better off trying to make your own Mack’ pizza.  I would think by the time it got to your place, that it wouldn’t taste the same as a fresh pie, unless you could get one in a matter of hours.  I have used the Kyrol flour in my trials, but Peter’s method is also good. Kyrol flour is the flour Mack’s uses. It is a bleached and bromated flour. If you can find some mild white cheddar where you live, that is the only kind of cheese uses on Mack’s pies. 

In the next few weeks, I want try another formula for another Mack’s attempt.  I have just been too busy lately to try another attempt. 

Best of luck in making your Mack’s attempt.  If I can be of any other help, let me know. 

Norma

[PizzaEater101]

Thanks Norma for the tips on how to make this pizza closer to the original.  I think you are right, an overnighted pie even if not baked in order for me to bake it won't taste the same.  I'll give the Kyrol flour a shot if I can get it around here. 

[norma427]

Thanks Norma for the tips on how to make this pizza closer to the original.  I think you are right, an overnighted pie even if not baked in order for me to bake it won't taste the same.  I'll give the Kyrol flour a shot if I can get it around here. 

PizzaEater101,

You really don't need to find Kyrol flour if there isn't any near you.  Peter set-forth a formula not using that flour.  If you need that link, let me know.  I used the Gangi sauce, which is what Mack's uses, but it tastes almost like Walmart's tomato paste.  I just added oregano and pepper to the Gangi sauce.  When I tasted that sauce it had a somewhat bitter taste, but when the pizza was baked it tasted different.  I had to add water to the Gangi sauce, because it is thick like tomato paste.

Norma

[PizzaEater101]

For flour I use Red Mill.  I don't see many people mentioning that brand here.  I use it because it's high gluten machine flour and it's easily purchased at Albertson's grocery store.  Used to have Gold Medal high gluten bread machine flour but no more. 

Norma, yes please post the link to Pete's recipe, much appreciated.  Thanks so much.

[chickenparm]

Hey folks,
Just reading and enjoying every bit of the pages and info.

I wanted to ask,has anyone tried Boar's Head brand for the mild white cheddar cheese yet?Or Land-o-Lakes brand found at a lot of east coast deli's?

Just suggestions for the cheese in case anyone has not tried it.I don't have those brands around here,but when I lived in NY they were superb brands.Would not surprise me if some of those places were using something similar or along those lines.
 

[norma427]

For flour I use Red Mill.  I don't see many people mentioning that brand here.  I use it because it's high gluten machine flour and it's easily purchased at Albertson's grocery store.  Used to have Gold Medal high gluten bread machine flour but no more. 

Norma, yes please post the link to Pete's recipe, much appreciated.  Thanks so much.

PizzaEater101,

This is one formula and how Peter went about making his Mack’s clone at Reply 301 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg98561.html#msg98561 He wasn’t satisfied with that formula, especially the how the cheese was on that pie.  The other link to Peter’s attempt that he had good results with is at Reply 307 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg99472.html#msg99472 Although I couldn’t taste his pie, it does look a lot like a Mack’s pizza.  Even the rim picture does look like Mack’s. He was making a 18" pie and I was trying 16" pies. 

I had asked Peter awhile ago what I could change in the formula to try another attempt at Mack’s crust, because I thought at the time that maybe Mack’s had some connection to De Lorenzo’s, because the Mack’s family was from Trenton, NJ.  In this post at Reply 340, this is what he said. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg100273.html#msg100273   Peter’s reply about me trying to change the dough formula to come closer to a Mack’s pie is at Reply 493 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg112760.html#msg112760
I have to soon try his suggestions to see what happens.

Norma

[norma427]

Hey folks,
Just reading and enjoying every bit of the pages and info.

I wanted to ask,has anyone tried Boar's Head brand for the mild white cheddar cheese yet?Or Land-o-Lakes brand found at a lot of east coast deli's?

Just suggestions for the cheese in case anyone has not tried it.I don't have those brands around here,but when I lived in NY they were superb brands.Would not surprise me if some of those places were using something similar or along those lines.
 

chickenparm,

Thanks for saying you enjoyed reading the threads and info.    I haven’t tried the Boar’s Head brand or Land-o-Lakes brands of mild white cheddar.  The closest cheese to Mack’s pizza was the Acme brand of longhorn style mild white cheddar.  That tastes almost like a Mack’s pizza. ERASMO found that brand of cheese. 

I think, but don’t know, that Mack’s purchases their mild white cheddar in 40 lb. blocks.  I know from having my small market stand, that I can purchase different kinds of cheeses from distributors that other members have trouble accessing.  There are even so many kinds of mild white cheddar at the wholesale level, that I don’t know if we will ever get the mild white cheddar right.  Even in my area in Pa. there are many kinds of mild white cheddar, that can be purchased on the retail level, but non I have tried so far, come up to the taste of Mack’s cheese.

Norma

[chickenparm]

Norma,
Has anyone simply asked them what brand it is? Or are they keeping it a secret?
 

[PizzaEater101]

Norma,
Has anyone simply asked them what brand it is? Or are they keeping it a secret?
 

That's a good point because some restaurants will tell you what they use.  Maybe it's worth a try if no one had done that as of yet.  Don't ask the Kentucky Colonel that because his herbs and spices are very guarded but ask that of Mack's maybe they will tell. 

[PizzaEater101]

I made a pseudo Boardwalk Pizza today just about half hour ago.  No pics because it was not to the "t".  I did not get to swirl the sauce like many of you did.  I was going to follow Norma's foot steps and use a ketchup squeeze bottle (ingenious idea Norma) but I did not have one and didn't get around to getting one and was anxious to make the pizza.  So here I am I try to swirl with a spoon and it didn't work.  Put down the cheese then tried the swirl.  Result was a mess and too much sauce.  So I spread it out on the cheese like regular style of saucing up a pizza.  I then put more cheese on.  This time I did a simple cheese pizza not a pepperoni or meat loves type. 

Instead of veg oil I used bacon grease.  Why?  Well because I made bacon yesterday and had enough grease to work on it. Well I saved grease from the other day too with the intention of making a pizza. Before you get scared off yes it might be unhealthier than olive oil or others but we normally all put pepperoni or sausage on anyway and those are pretty greasy and this one is a cheese pizza only so maybe it works out.    I didn't use all cheddar.  I used about 60% mild white cheddar and 40% part skim moz.  Why you ask?  Because that's what I had.  I had some already ground up  in that percentage the other day so I just went with what I had.    So as you can see from what I say it was not to a "t".

I did though follow the forumla's percentages in regards to the dough.  So less hydration, I think more oil or in this case more bacon grease.  Or whatever the percentages are I followed them.   

Also because I never had a Mack's I figured I'd do the dough like it's supposed to and deviate on the cheese and the oil since I don't know what Mack's taste like. 

Oh I normally use the Sbarro sauce I have which I love so much but I used the Rago I had because it's heavy and I think the Boardwalk calls for a heavy sauce from what I read here.  I don't have the brand you guys use but the Rago is heavy and was good.

I thought the pizza was very good.  My wife says it's the best cheese pizza she had.  So I have to remember and use about 60% cheddar and 40% part skim mozz.   Well I have to try that and make sure that is what I really used in terms of percentages and keep that in my notes.   Next I make a NY dough/pizza with bacon grease and see how it turns out. 

[PizzaEater101]

I don't know it out here in the Wild West if we have a boardwalk or anything called or anything like that.  Not sure what a "boardwalk" really is but I have an idea.  I should go out to the beach areas and go to our boardwalk or whatever resembles it and try west coast boardwalk pizza.  I am not expecting great pizza like what Mack's is supposed to be but I wonder what we have.  Out in Venice Beach, Marina Del Rey and all those places they got pizza on the walk too.  I should check. 

[norma427]

Norma,
Has anyone simply asked them what brand it is? Or are they keeping it a secret?
 

chickenparm,

If you listen to the second video I posted  in Reply 213 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg97856.html#msg97856 you can hear the lady sitting next to me ask about what kind of cheese Mack’s uses on their pies.  He says they do use some cheddar.  I don’t think Mack’s would give out the information for what kind of cheddar they use.  That is what makes their pizzas so unique in my opinion.

Norma

[norma427]

I made a pseudo Boardwalk Pizza today just about half hour ago.  No pics because it was not to the "t".  I did not get to swirl the sauce like many of you did.  I was going to follow Norma's foot steps and use a ketchup squeeze bottle (ingenious idea Norma) but I did not have one and didn't get around to getting one and was anxious to make the pizza.  So here I am I try to swirl with a spoon and it didn't work.  Put down the cheese then tried the swirl.  Result was a mess and too much sauce.  So I spread it out on the cheese like regular style of saucing up a pizza.  I then put more cheese on.  This time I did a simple cheese pizza not a pepperoni or meat loves type. 

Instead of veg oil I used bacon grease.  Why?  Well because I made bacon yesterday and had enough grease to work on it. Well I saved grease from the other day too with the intention of making a pizza. Before you get scared off yes it might be unhealthier than olive oil or others but we normally all put pepperoni or sausage on anyway and those are pretty greasy and this one is a cheese pizza only so maybe it works out.    I didn't use all cheddar.  I used about 60% mild white cheddar and 40% part skim moz.  Why you ask?  Because that's what I had.  I had some already ground up  in that percentage the other day so I just went with what I had.    So as you can see from what I say it was not to a "t".

I did though follow the forumla's percentages in regards to the dough.  So less hydration, I think more oil or in this case more bacon grease.  Or whatever the percentages are I followed them.   

Also because I never had a Mack's I figured I'd do the dough like it's supposed to and deviate on the cheese and the oil since I don't know what Mack's taste like. 

Oh I normally use the Sbarro sauce I have which I love so much but I used the Rago I had because it's heavy and I think the Boardwalk calls for a heavy sauce from what I read here.  I don't have the brand you guys use but the Rago is heavy and was good.

I thought the pizza was very good.  My wife says it's the best cheese pizza she had.  So I have to remember and use about 60% cheddar and 40% part skim mozz.   Well I have to try that and make sure that is what I really used in terms of percentages and keep that in my notes.   Next I make a NY dough/pizza with bacon grease and see how it turns out. 

PizzaEater101,

Great to hear your wife and you thought your pizza was good.  I like how you were inventive in using what ingredients you had.  I never heard of anyone using bacon grease in pizza dough, but maybe I just haven’t seen a post of someone using bacon grease in pizza dough.   

I enjoyed hearing about your pseudo Boardwalk Pizza. Your pizza making adventure sounded like the Wild, Wild West.  I really didn’t come up with the idea of using a ketchup bottle to use for applying the sauce. 

It would be interesting to hear what kind of boardwalk pizza you have in your area.  You never know, there might be some great pies there. 

If you want me to find the links on this thread what the boardwalk in Wildwood looks like, let me know and I will find the links.

Norma

[Essen1]

I don't know it out here in the Wild West if we have a boardwalk or anything called or anything like that.  Not sure what a "boardwalk" really is but I have an idea.  I should go out to the beach areas and go to our boardwalk or whatever resembles it and try west coast boardwalk pizza.  I am not expecting great pizza like what Mack's is supposed to be but I wonder what we have.  Out in Venice Beach, Marina Del Rey and all those places they got pizza on the walk too.  I should check. 

PE101,

I don't know where in the Wild West you are but we have a Boardwalk, albeit not as big as in Jersey, in Santa Cruz, CA.

Never had pizza there, though...

[PizzaEater101]

Essen, I'm in the greater Los Angeles area.  Not LA proper but the suburbs.  It's safe and clean where I am but I say the wild west because for the most part it's pretty crazy here and not much has changed since the days of the old west here in LA.  No, I'm not 125 years old to have lived back then and now but I can imagine it's just crazy in a different but similar way now than it was then.  I don't praise bad behavior but this is the wild west still.

I think in the old days Long Beach had a Boardwalk where the old amusement park is and has been restored.  Venice Beach had one and still does in a way but I don't think it's an authentic one. Same with Santa Monica  I should see if they have some pizza there.  I think I saw some never tried. 

The pics of Santa Cruz makes me think that the movie The Lost Boys with Keifer Sutherland was filmed there.  Looks like it though.