NJ Boardwalk Pizza

[norma427]

Norma,

Thank you for clarifying the photos. In a few cases, I guessed wrong before you clarified matters.

Out of curiosity, are your taste testers other standholders, or customers, or possibly some of each? And are the taste testers the same people that you use to critique your pizzas? And do they pay for the privilege?

Peter

Peter,

Please don’t tell me you guessed wrong in the pictures I posted of those pale crusts with nothing going on with them!    Hopefully at least my attempt at a Mack’s pizza looked better than those slices that should have been thrown under the boardwalk.

The taste testers were both standholders and some of my regular customers, that do taste some of my test pizzas.  They all really liked this attempt at the Mack’s pizza, better than most of my other attempts at other pies.  They were all people that critique my tests. The one man owns an Irish Pub and he said this was the best pizza.  I would like to try some of the Mack’s attempts on other customers that don’t normally taste my test pizzas.  It would be interesting to see what they think.. 

Norma

[norma427]

Norma,

That is a nice looking pie.  However, i have a Mack and Manco's once a week in the winter, and a lot of Mack's in the summer.
Both sauces are much more watered down than your raw sauce.  It thickens up in the cooking process.

BOARDWALKER,

I am sorry I missed your post.   When I get an automatic email that someone has posted on something I also posted on, it then takes me to the most recent post.  My apology for not responding.  

Since you also really like Mack’s and Mack and Manco’s pizzas and get to taste them more than I do, what do you think about the crust texture on my recent attempt, compared to the real Mack’s and Mack and Manco’s crust?  How would you describe the crust on the real Mack’s or Mack and Manco’s pizza and why do you think Mack’s and Mack and Manco’s pies are so different than other regular pizzas.  What makes them unique in your opinion?

For the last attempt at the Mack’s pizza I did, I used Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce and took the basil out and added oregano, black pepper, a touch of sugar and water.  The Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce is something like the Gangi sauce, but sweeter.  At some point in time, I am going to try Walmart’s brand of tomato paste for the sauce.  At least to me, I think the Wally Worlds tomato paste tastes a little more bitter, like the Gangi, since I already tasted the real Gangi sauce that Mack’s uses.  I did add more sauce to the recent attempt that I made because I wanted to see how more sauce on the attempt would taste. I also added more cheese than I think Mack's uses. I have seen the sauce coming out of the hoses different times (also Mack’s using some kind of stainless steel container to pour the sauce on) when I visited Mack’s and from what I saw there can be different textures in the sauce.  I don’t know if they measure how much water they put in the sauce or not. How would you describe the texture of the sauce coming out of the hoses?

Do you have any comments on how the attempt I did could be improved and how would you rate a Mack’s or Mack and Manco’s pizza against other pizzas you have eaten in you lifetime.  I wanted to ask you one other question if you want to answer.  Did you ever see the trash cans at the Mack’s pizza in the middle of the boardwalk, right before walking up the ramp?  From my last visit, their trash could be seen from just walking on the sidewalk nearest Mack’s pizza, in plain view.  At the other location of Mack’s their trash is kept in big trash containers from what I could see.

Thanks so much for your help on this thread.  

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

As I looked at your latest photos, I wondered whether the two crusts--yours and the Mack's--were of the same thickness. As you may recall, we used a lot of your weight measurements (and some of my estimates based on the videos) to try to get the "look and feel" of the Mack's pizzas from a physical standpoint (i.e., crust thickness and pizza size, and amounts of cheese and sauce). Those measurements eventually were used to try to zero in on a good value of thickness factor to use. It's hard to be precise on thickness factor because of the difference in weights between an uncooked pizza and a baked one, which requires estimating the amount of weight loss during baking and adjusting the dough weight to compensate. Moreover, those differences will vary depending on the type of oven and bake protocol used. I mention all of this because it would be easy to change the thickness factor you have been using to another value, either higher or lower, based on your assessment of the two crust thicknesses. 

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

As I looked at your latest photos, I wondered whether the two crusts--yours and the Mack's--were of the same thickness. As you may recall, we used a lot of your weight measurements (and some of my estimates based on the videos) to try to get the "look and feel" of the Mack's pizzas from a physical standpoint (i.e., crust thickness and pizza size, and amounts of cheese and sauce). Those measurements eventually were used to try to zero in on a good value of thickness factor to use. It's hard to be precise on thickness factor because of the difference in weights between an uncooked pizza and a baked one, which requires estimating the amount of weight loss during baking and adjusting the dough weight to compensate. Moreover, those differences will vary depending on the type of oven and bake protocol used. I mention all of this because it would be easy to change the thickness factor you have been using to another value, either higher or lower, based on your assessment of the two crust thicknesses. 

Peter

Peter,

I remember when you made your attempt on a Mack’s pizza and used the TF of .07272 at Reply 204  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg97757.html#msg97757 That pizza crust TF did look in line with a Mack’s real pizza crust. 

When I visited Mack’s pizza and brought back the slices to where we were staying at Reply 211 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg97850.html#msg97850  I mentioned in the above post, “These pictures are why I think the crust is thicker than I previously thought.”  From those pictures, the Mack’s crust does look about the same or a little thinner, than the formula for my last attempt.  When I also posted at Reply 224 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg97894.html#msg97894 with those pictures, those crust also looked a little thicker, but I can’t be sure. 

Then you posted at Reply 239 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg97956.html#msg97956 you had planned on using a TF of 0.0773963.

I don’t know what TF to try for my next attempt.  From the pictures I provided in the above links, and what you posted about TF, what do you think I should try when I used the expanded dough calculation tool for my next attempt?

I don’t know if any other members that can eat a Mack’s pizza more than I can, could also weigh a real Mack’s pizza to help this thread.  Maybe that would also help, until I can visit Mack’s again.  I know it is hard to able to know exactly the weight of Mack’s dough balls even from seeing all the pictures posted and also from my limited weighing of the pizza baked and unbaked with the cheese and sauce.  Also, what amount in weight of cheese and sauce do you recommend for my next attempt?

Norma

[ERASMO]

Norma

I will weigh a macks pizza next time we get one.

[norma427]

Norma

I will weigh a macks pizza next time we get one.

ERASMO,

Thanks a lot for posting that you will weigh a Mack's pizza the next time you buy one.  That will help this thread a lot. You have already helped this thread many times. I know you have bought Mack's pizza many times.  What I would like to ask you is, when you see them free throwing all that cheese and also not weighing the sauce that is put on their pizzas, don't you think there could be different weights when each pizza is weighed?  That is also stumping me on trying to know how much cheese or sauce to add.  When I watched them different times it seemed like different amounts of cheese and sauce were added to each pizza.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I don’t know what TF to try for my next attempt.  From the pictures I provided in the above links, and what you posted about TF, what do you think I should try when I used the expanded dough calculation tool for my next attempt?

I don’t know if any other members that can eat a Mack’s pizza more than I can, could also weigh a real Mack’s pizza to help this thread.  Maybe that would also help, until I can visit Mack’s again.  I know it is hard to able to know exactly the weight of Mack’s dough balls even from seeing all the pictures posted and also from my limited weighing of the pizza baked and unbaked with the cheese and sauce.  Also, what amount in weight of cheese and sauce do you recommend for my next attempt?

Norma,

I think I would rather see you try to repeat your last results, using the same values for everything, whether your next iteration is at home or at market. Obviously, a market version baked in your deck oven would be a better test because you wouldn't be introducing a new variable (your home oven) into the equation. Since ERASMO has offered to do a weighing fo the next Mack's pizza he buys, we may also get some newer/better numbers to work with.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

I will weigh a macks pizza next time we get one.

ERASMO,

Thank for offering. That should help although, as Norma has mentioned, "free throwing" things is prone to fairly wide swings in weights. Those variations might also affect bake times, which might affect weight losses. But I would rather have the information than not. That might at least get us into the "zone". The piece of information that would be most useful at this point, especially if coupled with the baked pizza weight that you get on your scale (I prefer grams if that is possible), would be the weight of a typical Mack's dough ball. However, I realize that that may be asking for too much. Also, pizza assemblers often don't have the foggiest idea as to what the dough balls weigh that they use to make pizzas day after day.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

I think I would rather see you try to repeat your last results, using the same values for everything, whether your next iteration is at home or at market. Obviously, a market version baked in your deck oven would be a better test because you wouldn't be introducing a new variable (your home oven) into the equation. Since ERASMO has offered to do a weighing fo the next Mack's pizza he buys, we may also get some newer/better numbers to work with.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for your thoughts about what I should try for my next iteration.  I am going to do the next attempt at market, so I can see if my results are consistent with my last results.  I will use the same formula with the same flour, and also the same TF, but might change the oil to soybean oil.  All depends if I have time to purchase some soybean oil.  I might add a little less of the cheese blend and sauce to get more in line with the looks of a real Mack’s pizza. I also hope with ERASMO’s kind offer of weighing a real Mack’s pizza, we might be able to newer/better numbers to work with.

Norma

[ERASMO]

ERASMO,

Thanks a lot for posting that you will weigh a Mack's pizza the next time you buy one.  That will help this thread a lot. You have already helped this thread many times. I know you have bought Mack's pizza many times.  What I would like to ask you is, when you see them free throwing all that cheese and also not weighing the sauce that is put on their pizzas, don't you think there could be different weights when each pizza is weighed?  That is also stumping me on trying to know how much cheese or sauce to add.  When I watched them different times it seemed like different amounts of cheese and sauce were added to each pizza.

Norma

Well, they definately do it freehand but they seem very consistent.  The pizza men have alot of repetition there!

[Pete-zza]

I will use the same formula with the same flour, and also the same TF, but might change the oil to soybean oil.  All depends if I have time to purchase some soybean oil. 

Norma,

Soybean oil is sold as "vegetable oil", and formerly as "salad oil" (the term that Tom Lehmann usually uses, which dates the man), so you may already have some in your cupboard.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

Well, they definately do it freehand but they seem very consistent.  The pizza men have alot of repetition there!

ERASMO,

You are right about that. It is always interesting to see how people who do repetitive tasks in great numbers are able to get very close on each item they estimate. It is where there are different workers that variations occur, at least until they get up to speed. Looking at the Mack's videos and photos, I noticed that there have been several pizza makers at Mack's over time so I would expect variations in the cheese and toppings that go onto their pizzas. It would be easy I think for Mack's to go to portioning cups on the cheese. I think it would save them a lot of money. Also, as they and/or Mack & Manco's expand their operations (I notice that there are franchising opportunities: http://www.mackandmancopizzatoo.com/franchise.asp), you would want to nail down everything as much as possible to give franchisees the best chance to make money.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Soybean oil is sold as "vegetable oil", and formerly as "salad oil" (the term that Tom Lehmann usually uses, which dates the man), so you may already have some in your cupboard.

Peter

Peter,

I do have Crisco oil in my cupboard, but the label is off.  I guess Crisco is vegetable oil or the same as soybean oil.  I really don’t know.

Norma

[norma427]

I used the same formula as I posted last time at Reply 595 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg134713.html#msg134713 and the only thing I changed in this mix, was I added the vegetable oil last before the 8 minute mix time on speed 2.  I did use Crisco oil this time, instead of the Canola oil, that I used the last time in the formula.

This is a picture what the dough looked like right after it came out of the mixer bowl, mixed in the Kitchen Aid mixer.

Norma

Peter,

I either must have missed the last sentence of your post at Reply 619 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg135306.html#msg135306 or either you might have edited that post.

Norma,
 
And do they pay for the privilege?

Peter

My standholders, maintenance men, or even customers don’t pay to try samples of any test pizzas I make.  If someone wants to buy a slice of one of the test pizzas, then I charged them less than I normally do charge for a slice.  Sometimes if there are leftovers slices of test pizzas, my one friend near the end of the night will buy them all.  Some customers walk by and ask what kind of pizza is sitting on the racks sometimes.  The one thing that I find interesting about that is, if it is a Greek pizza or a pizza that I say has all or mostly cheddar, they stick their noses up at the word cheddar.  They don’t know what they are missing.  I guess most people think pizza should just have mozzarella as the cheese.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I think what happened is that I was editing as you were posting.

In your last post, you mentioned olive oil. Did you mean Crisco vegetable oil (soybean)?

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

I think what happened is that I was editing as you were posting.

In your last post, you mentioned olive oil. Did you mean Crisco vegetable oil (soybean)?

Peter

Peter,

I edited my post.  I did use Crisco oil today.

Norma

[norma427]

If anyone is interested, this is how the Mack’s dough looked today at market.  As can been seen the dough isn’t fermenting very fast and does have a yellowish hue.  Pinocchio & Jiminy Cricket are waiting for another attempt at a Mack’s pizza.

Pictures of dough ball top and bottom.

Norma

[norma427]

For my next attempt at the Mack’s pizza, I used my regular tomato sauce I use at market to see if the taste of the tomato sauce has something to do with how a Mack’s pizza would taste with a different tomato sauce other than a paste with added oregano, a little sugar, black pepper and water.  Although this crust did almost taste and look like a Mack’s pizza, the flavor of my regular tomato sauce really threw the taste of the whole pizza attempt off.  I did use less of the cheese blend than I used on my last attempt.  I also watered my regular tomato sauce down and the sauce I applied was thinner. This attempt wasn’t as greasy as my last attempt either.  Next week I might try WalMart’s tomato paste or my paste like I did last week.  Just by using my regular tomato sauce, this pizza didn’t taste the same as last week. 

I can’t decide if I liked the crust of this attempt better than last week, made with the Canola oil.  This week I had used Crisco oil in the formula.  To me this crust tasted different than last week, when I used Canola oil, but still was good.  Now I can’t decide if I want to change back to Canola oil or not.

The dough fermented about the same as last week.  I left the dough ball warm-up for about 2 hours.  With the formula I used, the dough doesn’t ferment too fast.  The dough was easy to open and it could be thrown.  I had to place a screen under the pizza again, near the end of the bake, because it wanted to brown too fast.  Even though this attempt did look more like a Mack’s pizza in the way the cheese and sauce were applied, my last attempt tasted more in line with a Mack’s pizza.

Steve, Pinocchio & Jiminy Cricket mentioned they like my attempt last week better. I would agree with them.

Pictures below

Norma

[norma427]

more pictures

Norma

[norma427]

more pictures

Norma