Author Topic: NJ Boardwalk Pizza  (Read 188745 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22477
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1580 on: February 27, 2013, 09:08:38 AM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline satgan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 20
  • Location: Macedonia _Skopje
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1581 on: February 27, 2013, 01:37:10 PM »
Norma your pizza is great as always, the video says 1.5 pounds of cheese

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22477
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1582 on: February 27, 2013, 04:28:04 PM »
Norma your pizza is great as always, the video says 1.5 pounds of cheese

Saso,

Thanks for telling me that the video says they use 1.5 pounds of proprietary cheese.  That is a lot of cheese even for a big pizza.  :o

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline satgan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 20
  • Location: Macedonia _Skopje
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1583 on: February 27, 2013, 06:57:53 PM »
also said that the 24 inch pizza

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22477
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1584 on: February 27, 2013, 07:05:31 PM »
also said that the 24 inch pizza

Saso,

Thanks for telling that was for a 24" pizza.  The 1.5 lbs. of the proprietary cheese makes more sense now.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline satgan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 20
  • Location: Macedonia _Skopje
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1585 on: February 27, 2013, 07:20:47 PM »


Thanks for telling that was for a 24" pizza.  The 1.5 lbs. of the proprietary cheese makes more sense now.

Norma
[/quote]



Thank you, Norma for your post
he also says that the 6 min baking time

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22477
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1586 on: February 27, 2013, 10:14:38 PM »

he also says that the 6 min baking time


Saso,

Thanks for the bake time too!  That sounds like a reasonable bake time for a boardwalk pizza.

Norma

Always working and looking for new information!

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22477
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1587 on: March 04, 2013, 06:41:35 AM »
Last week on my attempt for a Mack’s clone I had used the formulation I had posted at Reply 1194 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg201863.html#msg201863 and only changed the IDY amount (upped it a little to 0.50%), dropped the amount of sugar a little (to 1.0%) and changed the bowl residue compensation (upped it by 1%).  I kept the same TF.  What I am trying to figure out is why the flour amount is so different (not near as high) when I figured out the basically the same formulation on the expanded dough calculation tool.  

This is a picture of the bottom of my print out sheet from last week.  I am wondering what might have caused the fairly big difference in the flour amount.

I might try another Mack’s attempt tomorrow using the same formulation as last week.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22323
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1588 on: March 04, 2013, 08:43:21 AM »
Last week on my attempt for a Mack’s clone I had used the formulation I had posted at Reply 1194 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg201863.html#msg201863 and only changed the IDY amount (upped it a little to 0.50%), dropped the amount of sugar a little (to 1.0%) and changed the bowl residue compensation (upped it by 1%).  I kept the same TF.  What I am trying to figure out is why the flour amount is so different (not near as high) when I figured out the basically the same formulation on the expanded dough calculation tool.  
Norma,

What you posted for your latest dough formulation is for a 16" pizza, whereas the dough formulation set forth in Reply 1194 referenced above is for an 18" pizza. If you make your latest changes in yeast, oil and sugar and the bowl residue compensation, the final dough formulation for the 16" size becomes as follows:

Flour (100%):
Water (55%):
IDY (0.50%):
Salt (2%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (2.5%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (161%):
281.14 g  |  9.92 oz | 0.62 lbs
154.62 g  |  5.45 oz | 0.34 lbs
1.41 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.47 tsp | 0.16 tbsp
5.62 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.01 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
7.03 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.55 tsp | 0.52 tbsp
2.81 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.71 tsp | 0.24 tbsp
452.63 g | 15.97 oz | 1 lbs | TF = 0.079407
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.07785; bowl residue compensation = 2%

Now, compare the above with the formulation from Reply 1194 (but for the 16" size):

Flour (100%):
Water (55%):
IDY (0.40%):
Salt (2%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (2.5%):
Sugar (1.5%):
Total (161.4%):
277.69 g  |  9.8 oz | 0.61 lbs
152.73 g  |  5.39 oz | 0.34 lbs
1.11 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.37 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
5.55 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
6.94 g | 0.24 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.53 tsp | 0.51 tbsp
4.17 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.04 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
448.19 g | 15.81 oz | 0.99 lbs | TF = 0.0786285
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.07785; bowl residue compensation = 1%

As you can see, the difference in flour quantity is slight, and most of the increase is due more to the increase in the bowl residue compensation than the changes to the yeast and sugar quantities.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 09:31:38 AM by Pete-zza »

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22477
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1589 on: March 04, 2013, 09:09:07 AM »
Norma,

What you posted for your latest dough formulation is for a 16" pizza, whereas the dough formulation set forth in Reply 1194 referenced above is for an 18" pizza. If you make your latest changes in yeast, oil and sugar and the bowl residue compensation, the final dough formulation for the 18" size becomes as follows:

Flour (100%):
Water (55%):
IDY (0.50%):
Salt (2%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (2.5%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (161%):
281.14 g  |  9.92 oz | 0.62 lbs
154.62 g  |  5.45 oz | 0.34 lbs
1.41 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.47 tsp | 0.16 tbsp
5.62 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.01 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
7.03 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.55 tsp | 0.52 tbsp
2.81 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.71 tsp | 0.24 tbsp
452.63 g | 15.97 oz | 1 lbs | TF = 0.079407
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.07785; bowl residue compensation = 2%

Now, compare the above with the formulation from Reply 1194:

Flour (100%):
Water (55%):
IDY (0.40%):
Salt (2%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (2.5%):
Sugar (1.5%):
Total (161.4%):
277.69 g  |  9.8 oz | 0.61 lbs
152.73 g  |  5.39 oz | 0.34 lbs
1.11 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.37 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
5.55 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
6.94 g | 0.24 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.53 tsp | 0.51 tbsp
4.17 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.04 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
448.19 g | 15.81 oz | 0.99 lbs | TF = 0.0786285
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.07785; bowl residue compensation = 1%

As you can see, the difference in flour quantity is slight, and most of the increase is due more to the increase in the bowl residue compensation than the changes to the yeast and sugar quantities.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for figuring out where I went wrong last week.  I see there is only a small difference in the flour amounts from what you posted.  I guess I am used to entering the desired pizza size as 16” for my Lehmann dough pizzas that is what I did last week in the expanded dough calculation tool.  I really wanted to make a 18” pizza with the formulation I posted last week.  No wonder the pizza was so thin when I stretched the dough last week.  I checked again on the print out sheet and I did put 16” in the desired pizza size last week.  Maybe I also need better glasses to really know what I am doing.  :-D I just did the calculations again for an 18” pizza so now I think the formulation is okay. 

I looked at my print out sheet from last week this morning and couldn’t figure out what I did wrong.  I didn’t even think to check the pizza size until a little while ago.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22477
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1590 on: March 04, 2013, 08:25:30 PM »
The Mack’s dough ball that was mixed this morning. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22477
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1591 on: March 06, 2013, 09:36:55 AM »

The Mack’s attempt turned out well later yesterday.  Steve and I used the extra left-over Classico Tomato product and Steve did season it with oregano and pepper again.   The dough ball sat out for over 2 ½  hrs. before it was opened.  The dough ball was really pressed on before opening it, but for some reason it still wanted to develop some oven spring on the rim (which was gotten rid of some with the bubble popper while it first baked).  I don’t know why that crust wanted to still develop some oven spring, even after all that pressing.  Using the Classico Tomato product almost tasted like the Gangi Sauce that Mack’s uses.  The skin could be tossed and twirled easily. 

There was one standholder that came to my stand shortly after the Mack’s attempt was baked.  She asked what kind of pizza the Mack’s attempt was.  Steve and I told her it was a Mack’s experiment.  She said it looked like a Grotto’s pizza.  I told her that it tasted something like a Grotto’s pizza.  She then said that Grotto’s is her favorite pizza.  She tasted a slice and said it tasted just like Grotto’s pizza.  She later came back for another slice for her friend and said she wanted to purchase a whole pizza next week just like we tried.  One of my later customers came by with a joke and I knew he like Mack’s pizza.  All he said while looking into the revolving pizza display case was Mack’s pizza.  I laughed and said I did try a Mack’s attempt.  Of course he then wanted to also try a slice.  He said the slice tasted almost like a Mack’s pizza and was very good.  I only had one slice leftover to take home to my daughter.  She got home late last evening after working a double shift at work because she is going to be going on a business trip later this week to Macon, Georgia.  I told her I brought her a Mack’s attempt slice home.  She reheated it and said it did taste like a Mack’s pizza and asked me why I didn’t bring another slice home for her to eat.   

The 3 changes I would like with this pizza is to get a little more bottom crust browning and a little more crispness in the bottom crust, but I am not sure how to go about that, unless I try a little longer bake.  The crust did taste very good though and might be okay as it was.  The only 2nd change would be to find something like Gangi sauce.  I am not sure whether that might be trying the Escalon Bonta Extra-Heavy Tomato Puree or the Escalon Bonta Fancy Tomato Sauce.  I also really don’t know where to locate them in my area.  I am not sure which of the above Escalon products would taste like the Classico product we tried yesterday.  The 3rd change would be to get rid of those bubbles while the crust is starting to bake.

I might think of trying to change my pizzas to my Mack’s attempt yesterday if I can locate a similar tomato product.  I also might make a bigger batch of Mack’s clone dough at market next Monday to see what my customers think.  I know many people in my area do like either Mack’s, Manco and Manco and Grotto’s pizza.  I am not sure if customers like the Mack’s clone pizza what I would call them either.  All I can think of is NJ boardwalk pizzas.  If I would decide to do this pizza all the time, I need to get another 18” pizza peel.  My one side of my pizza peel is broken off a little.  I did look at the webrestaurant store the last few times I was there and they don’t have the thin wooden 18” pizza peels.  I would also have to use the Marucas stainless steel pot Trenton Bill gave me to apply the sauce because I sure don’t have a hose.

If I do decide to try this type of at market all the time I guess I should start a new thread.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22477
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1592 on: March 06, 2013, 09:38:40 AM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22477
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1593 on: March 06, 2013, 09:40:35 AM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22477
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1594 on: March 06, 2013, 09:42:02 AM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22323
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1595 on: March 06, 2013, 10:41:05 AM »
The 3 changes I would like with this pizza is to get a little more bottom crust browning and a little more crispness in the bottom crust, but I am not sure how to go about that, unless I try a little longer bake.  The crust did taste very good though and might be okay as it was.  The only 2nd change would be to find something like Gangi sauce.  I am not sure whether that might be trying the Escalon Bonta Extra-Heavy Tomato Puree or the Escalon Bonta Fancy Tomato Sauce.  I also really don’t know where to locate them in my area.  I am not sure which of the above Escalon products would taste like the Classico product we tried yesterday.  The 3rd change would be to get rid of those bubbles while the crust is starting to bake.
Norma,

Since you cut back on the sugar by 0.50%, you might go back to 1.5% again to see if that helps with the bottom crust coloration. You might also reduce the amount of oil by 0.50% to see if that helps make the crust a bit crispier. I would imagine that it is still pretty cold in Manheim, PA but you might consider a shorter temper time if it is not quite as cold where your stand is located. Sometimes a long temper time, especially if there is a fair amount of yeast in the dough, will cause the dough to ferment more and develop a fair amount of carbon dioxide gas. That can sometimes lead to a larger rim and bubbling in the crust.

Is there any chance that you can get the nutrition information for the Gangi tomatoes? That could be useful to determine the closest counterpart from Stanislaus or Escalon.

Peter

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11117
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1596 on: March 06, 2013, 04:16:42 PM »
Norma,
Since you say that your customers like/recognize the Macks, Manco's et.al. style of pizza I believe I would run with that too. It is very distinguishable and sticks out of the crowd with that crazy, tempting swirl of sauce on it's top. I believe they are probably less expensive for you to make too, correct?
Anyway, your calling them "Boardwalk Style Pizza" sounds about right to me.  8)
I know you still have a couple details to smooth out in order to bring this to market...good luck!
Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22477
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1597 on: March 06, 2013, 06:16:01 PM »
Norma,

Since you cut back on the sugar by 0.50%, you might go back to 1.5% again to see if that helps with the bottom crust coloration. You might also reduce the amount of oil by 0.50% to see if that helps make the crust a bit crispier. I would imagine that it is still pretty cold in Manheim, PA but you might consider a shorter temper time if it is not quite as cold where your stand is located. Sometimes a long temper time, especially if there is a fair amount of yeast in the dough, will cause the dough to ferment more and develop a fair amount of carbon dioxide gas. That can sometimes lead to a larger rim and bubbling in the crust.

Is there any chance that you can get the nutrition information for the Gangi tomatoes? That could be useful to determine the closest counterpart from Stanislaus or Escalon.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for your recommendations to try 1.5% sugar again for better bottom crust browning.  I appreciate you also recommended that I try to reduce the oil amount to 0.50% to see if that make the bottom crust a bit crisper.  The bottom crust was crisp when cut, but not exactly enough.  If I reduce the oil amount to 0.50% again do I need to do anything to the hydration?  It is still cold where my stand is located.  Maybe I left the dough ball warm-up too long at market yesterday, but I was busy doing other things so I couldn‘t get to that dough ball when I wanted to.  I can try a shorter warm-up time.  Thanks for telling me that the longer temper time will cause the dough to ferment more and develop a fair amount of carbon dioxide gas that can sometimes lead to a larger rim and bubbling in the crust.

I had forgotten who I talked to about the Gangi Supreme Heavy Duty pizza sauce awhile ago.  I searched this thread and at Reply 53 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg96120.html#msg96120 I found out about Morningstar again http://morningstarco.com/index.cgi .  I called them and that company is only an industrial seller of the Gangi products in drums and larger amounts.  They directed me to Pacific Coast Producers  http://pcoastp.com/ that then directed me to a broker in Phila.  The broker then told me of a foodservice distributor in Collegeville, Pa., which is probably closer to me in Pa. than Bova Foods.  I called the foodservice distributor in Collegeville, Pa. and anytime I can get there he said I can purchase just one case or more of the Gangi Supreme Heavy Duty pizza sauce to see if my customers will like boardwalk style pizzas.  What I also found out from the broker in Philly I thought also was kind of strange.  He said that Bova had recently purchased the Gangi Supreme Heavy Duty pizza sauce again and then branded it under the Bova name.  What strange things that can be found out just by talking to different foodservice people.  The broker is going to send me sample cans of Gangi Supreme Heavy Duty pizza sauce and also a can of Paradiso pizza sauce that has fresh basil added like the Saporito does.  The Paradiso pizza sauce is new.  The lady at Pacific Coast Producers said she would send me the Nutrition Facts for the Gangi Supreme Heavy Duty pizza sauce.  I also found out from the broker that the old industry name for the Gangi Supreme Heavy Duty pizza sauce is “SUP 40”. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22477
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1598 on: March 06, 2013, 06:23:57 PM »
Norma,
Since you say that your customers like/recognize the Macks, Manco's et.al. style of pizza I believe I would run with that too. It is very distinguishable and sticks out of the crowd with that crazy, tempting swirl of sauce on it's top. I believe they are probably less expensive for you to make too, correct?
Anyway, your calling them "Boardwalk Style Pizza" sounds about right to me.  8)
I know you still have a couple details to smooth out in order to bring this to market...good luck!
Bob

Bob,

Yes, some of my customers do really like/recognize the boardwalk style of pizzas.  Some customers have been asking me to try to make them for a long while.  I really haven’t priced everything, but I believe they would be a little cheaper for me to produce that what I am doing now, expect if I have to travel more to pick up the Gangi sauce. 

Thanks for saying you think “Boardwalk Style Pizza” would be a good name to call the new pizza if everything works out okay.  ;)

I know this type of pizza is one of my favorites since I was a child.  Now it just to see if my customers think the same thing.  There are so many pizza businesses in my area that offer regular NY style pizzas.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22323
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1599 on: March 06, 2013, 06:35:26 PM »
Norma,

If I reduce the oil amount to 0.50% again do I need to do anything to the hydration?
My suggestion was to reduce the amount of oil "by" 0.50%, not "to" 0.50%. So, the amount of oil should be 2% instead of 2.5%. If the reduction works but still not quite good enough, then you can consider a further reduction later. For now, for the small reduction in the amount of oil, I do not see any need to change the hydration value.

The broker is going to send me sample cans of Gangi Supreme Heavy Duty pizza sauce and also a can of Paradiso pizza sauce that has fresh basil added like the Saporito does.  The Paradiso pizza sauce is new.  The lady at Pacific Coast Producers said she would send me the Nutrition Facts for the Gangi Supreme Heavy Duty pizza sauce.  I also found out from the broker that the old industry name for the Gangi Supreme Heavy Duty pizza sauce is “SUP 40”.
 
That is very good news on the Gangi pizza sauce. Will that pizza sauce be what Mack's has been using, or will it be a different product? I am also anxious to see that Nutrition Facts.

Peter


 

pizzapan