Author Topic: NJ Boardwalk Pizza  (Read 236994 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1650 on: March 27, 2013, 07:34:27 AM »
As I said in my last post, I am not really looking to make an authentic Mack’s clone anymore, especially in the crust.  I don’t mind if my crusts have some oven spring.  That being said, I really pressed on the dough balls while opening them and also pressed on the edges of the skin, before fully opening them yesterday.  No matter what I did, the rims still had oven spring.  The only thing I didn’t try was to roll out the dough with a rolling pin.  Really I think a pizza with some oven spring looks better, at least to me.

The Gangi tomato product can be really thinned down, which is really a good thing in my opinion.  I have watched at the shore when the sauce was being applied with the hose and mostly always thought the sauce was thicker when it was applied, but since experimenting, I now think that the sauce is really thinned down with water.  I have never been close enough to really see how thin the Mack’s sauce is, even though I have watched closely when the sauce is applied many times. 

My friend Trenton Bill had sent me the little plastic cup with the spout in the one pictures and did tell me he thinks that does apply the sauce well.  I agree, after using it later yesterday for some of my pizzas.

I think I am happy with the formulation I used with the Occident flour.  The bottom crusts browned okay for me yesterday and the TF seems okay too.  The dough balls also opened much better yesterday and I didn’t have to fight with them.  The crust tasted very good and the bottom crust was crisp when cut and also the rim crust was a little crisp, but was also tender inside, with a little chew.  I also really liked the Occident flour in the formulation I used.  The whole pizzas just seemed better to me.  I thought the IDY amount might have been a little too high for a two day cold ferment, but none of the dough balls fermented too much yesterday.  The pizza prep fridge was at 37 degrees though during the two-day cold ferment.  I am not sure what amount of IDY to try for a one day cold ferment next week.

I still have to work on the amount of cheese to apply both times, but the pizzas and slices held up well in the heated cabinet yesterday.  The slices also reheated well.  I don’t want my rim crusts to get too brown in the bake because when the short reheat is done, then the rim crust does get a little browner.

 Different customers told me they really like the “boardwalk style” of pizzas yesterday.   My youngest daughter and her boyfriend were at market yesterday morning and it was the first time they have tasted the “boardwalk style” of pizza.  They both really liked it and my daughter’s boyfriend, that had lived in Brooklyn, NY for most of his life said the “boardwalk style” of pizza reminded him of the best pizzas he had eaten in Brooklyn.  Finally, there was a woman that came to my stand yesterday and must have tried the “boardwalk style” of pizza last week.  She said she has told all of her friends about the “boardwalk style” of pizzas.  I couldn’t believe it, but she told me my “boardwalk style” of pizza tasted just like Mack’s pizza.  She purchased some slices yesterday and said she will be back.  The lady said Mack’s pizzas have been her favorite all her life too, but she wasn’t as old as I am.  The lady and her husband that live in NY (that also have a house in Lititz) were also at my stand yesterday.  They purchased a whole pizza to take home.  I will have to wait and see what they thought of the pizza.

A lady from http://www.canned-fresh.com/ contacted me by email yesterday and said this.

Pete Hansen from Pacific Coast Producers forwarded me the link to your pizza blog -- and we really enjoyed it! We help PCP with their website and social media, and we were wondering if you might be interested in doing either a guest blog post review on the PCP site (www.canned-fresh.com) or a a product review on your site that we could link to. We of course would send you some product to test out!

We loved your snow pizza lady you posted yesterday...! Hope you get some warm weather soon!

Looking forward to hopefully working with you soon.

Norma 


Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1651 on: March 27, 2013, 07:37:19 AM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1652 on: March 27, 2013, 07:39:52 AM »
Norma

Offline Trinity

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1653 on: March 31, 2013, 08:43:08 AM »
I wonder if just a few percent of aged white cheddar cheese mixed with the mozzarella would bring back 'that tang' to the cheese we think we remember from the ol' days. :pizza:

 Pizza looks fantastic Norma!!! Makes me drool!!! :drool:
It's an Earth food. They are called Swedish meatballs. It's a strange thing, but every sentient race has its own version of these Swedish meatballs! I suspect it's one of those great universal mysteries which will either never be explained, or which would drive you mad if you ever learned the truth.

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1654 on: March 31, 2013, 10:19:32 AM »
I wonder if just a few percent of aged white cheddar cheese mixed with the mozzarella would bring back 'that tang' to the cheese we think we remember from the ol' days. :pizza:

 Pizza looks fantastic Norma!!! Makes me drool!!! :drool:

Trinity,

The cheese I am using on the “boardwalk style” of pizzas is posted at Reply 1672 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg241437.html#msg241437  I am almost positive it isn’t the same cheese Mack’s is using, but it grates like mozzarella, doesn’t stick together (when warm, or cold), melts well, and has that buttery taste with a little bit of tang.  At least I am satisfied with it for “boardwalk style” of pizzas.  After searching for a cheese for about 3 years for this type of pizza, at least I found a cheese that does work.  :-D

I might tweak the formulation for the dough a little more.  I have to look back though this thread to see what gave me and Peter the best results.

Thanks for your kind comments!

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1655 on: April 01, 2013, 07:34:21 AM »
This video wasn’t posted before, but it was at Joey Mack’s in Philly.  I was at Joey Mack’s last year and really didn’t think Joey Mack’s pizza tasted like a real Mack’s pizza, but Joe Mack has won awards and says in this video that Mack’s pizza started in Trenton in 1948 and then moved to Seaside, NJ by Joe Mack’s father and uncle before going to Wildwood. 



Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1656 on: April 01, 2013, 06:30:54 PM »
I wasn’t sure what to change in the dough formulation for a Mack’s pizza, but this is the formulation I tried today.  Two batches of the dough were mixed.  The dough balls were scaled to 1.24 lbs.  There is only one photo after the dough balls are balled from the one dough batch.

The 2 batches were mixed for 4 minutes in the Hobart mixer.  The salt was mixed in first just with my hand and then the vegetable oil was added.  The flour, sugar and IDY were then added and mixed for 4 minutes on speed one.  It can be seen what the dough looked like in the mixer bowl after it was mixed.  I thought I would take two photos of what the dough looked like when it was stretched right after the second dough batch was mixed, incase anyone is interested in seeing how the dough stretches.  The dough on the right was just a small leftover piece of dough from the first batch that I put on top of the batch of the just mixed batch.  I did that to show how the gluten matrix loosens up by itself in a short while.  The timeframe was about 3/4 hr. after the first batch was mixed.  The dough on the left side is the new dough that was just mixed.  The dough that can be stretched much more is the little piece of leftover dough that was put into a plastic bag until the second batch of dough was mixed.

I am also showing how I might make a lower hydration dough like what I am attempting for a Mack‘s dough, than say a Detroit style dough (which is a lot higher in hydration) that has to be mixed until more gluten is formed.  The last two photos are of the Detroit style dough after it is mixed.  The Detroit style dough can be stretched pretty far right away, but the dough is still strong, but also slightly sticky.

All the doughs were made with the Occident flour.

Norma
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 06:13:36 AM by norma427 »

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1657 on: April 01, 2013, 06:32:10 PM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1658 on: April 02, 2013, 09:52:41 PM »
Maybe, Steve went where no other pizza maker went before today.  ::) I told him to open one of the dough balls from the new formulation I tried.  I also told Steve the dough ball opened very easily.  He stretched it too far for the wooden peel, so he used two peels to put the skin on and dressed the pizza on two wooden peels and slid the pizza off into the oven perfectly, while the pizza was on the two wooden peels. That Steve is amazing some times. :angel: :-D :chef: :pizza:

Norma   
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 10:08:57 PM by norma427 »


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1659 on: April 02, 2013, 09:55:52 PM »
Yep....Ev is waaay awesome!  8)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1660 on: April 02, 2013, 10:11:55 PM »
Yep....Ev is waaay awesome!  8)

Bob,

 ^^^  I couldn't have done that.

Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1661 on: April 02, 2013, 10:46:31 PM »
Aw shucks,  'twernt a thang! :-D

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1662 on: April 02, 2013, 11:00:18 PM »
Aw shucks,  'twernt a thang! :-D

Steve,

You are way too modest.  What you did today, was nothing short of amazing!  :chef: ;D  You are also a lot of fun!

Norma
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 11:02:22 PM by norma427 »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1663 on: April 02, 2013, 11:12:31 PM »
Good smoke...and mirrors... :-D
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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1664 on: April 03, 2013, 08:06:51 AM »
I really liked the new dough formulation I tried for a Mack’s pizza yesterday.  I really don’t know what changed the dough, the stretching ability and the final taste of the crust, but I liked it better than last week when I did a two day cold ferment with a little different dough formulation.  I sure don’t know, but maybe the way the dough was mixed had something to do with the better results yesterday.  Last week I added the oil last in the mix.  I wouldn’t think that would change things so much, but it sure seemed like it did.  Steve and I also thought the taste of the crust with just a one day cold fermentation was very good. 

The dough balls were pressed on the same way when opening them into skins this week and there wasn’t as much oven spring this week while baking them in the oven.  The dough balls were so easy to open and the skins could be stretched easily and the skins could be tossed really well too.  The bottom crust had just the right amount of crispness for me.  The rim crust had a nice crisp too and the inside of the rim crust was moist and not bready.   

The new formulation also could make a decent Greek style pizza. 

I had different comments from customers that said the pizzas tasted like a Grotto’s pizza.  I hate to leave the Lehmann dough formulation because it has served me well, but all of my customers so far like the “boardwalk style” of pizzas better.  Since I will only be using one flour brand and one cheese, it will also make life easier for me.  I still do have a whole 50 lb. bag of Kyrol flour and don’t know what I am going to do with that now.  I had also always used olive oil in my Lehmann doughs, so using vegetable oil will also be less expensive for me too.

I guess what I am making is a modified Mack’s clone.

Even though Pinocchio, Geppetto and Jiminy Cricket were not along at market yesterday they must have helped me somehow.  They must have been thinking that wouldn’t it be nice if Norma’s “boardwalk style” of pizza was like a real Mack’s pizza of long ago.



Jiminy Cricket is right, that “When your heart is in your dream, no request is too extreme”.  I think the song “When you Wish Upon a Star” is a beautifully sung by Cliff Edwards with his high tenor falsetto voice.  I also love that song and could listen to it over and over again.



I think it is sad though that Cliff Edwards real life didn’t turn out well.  Cliff ended up penniless, but his song will always live on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Edwards

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1665 on: April 03, 2013, 08:09:01 AM »
Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1666 on: April 03, 2013, 08:30:39 AM »
Norma,

The most recent dough formulation you used is actually pretty much in line with a NY style dough formulation except that you are using a lower thickness factor than is normally used for a NY street style pizza. Can you tell us what size the pizzas were and was that size used in the expanded dough calculating tool? It's possible that the smaller rim is due to the fact that the dough is being spread over a larger surface area, resulting in less dough at the rim.

Peter


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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1667 on: April 03, 2013, 08:45:48 AM »
Norma,

The most recent dough formulation you used is actually pretty much in line with a NY style dough formulation except that you are using a lower thickness factor than is normally used for a NY street style pizza. Can you tell us what size the pizzas were and was that size used in the expanded dough calculating tool? It's possible that the smaller rim is due to the fact that the dough is being spread over a larger surface area, resulting in less dough at the rim.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me that the most recent dough formulation I used is actually pretty much in line with a NY style dough formulation.  The pizza size used in the expanded dough calculation tool was 17”. 

I can understand that the smaller rim might be due to the fact that the dough is being spread over a larger surface area. I never will understand why even little changes in variables, or mixing methods changes something.

Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1668 on: April 03, 2013, 09:46:52 AM »
Norma,

It looks like I misspoke in my last post on the thickness factor. I couldn't recall your ever using a thickness factor of around 0.06, so I went back to Reply 1565 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg246169.html#msg246169, where you posted your latest dough formulation, to see what you actually did. I had a hard time reading the formulation shown there but with a little effort I was able to reconstruct the formulation using the expanded dough calculating tool. In the course of doing so, I also saw that you used Kosher salt (Morton's) rather than regular salt. For the record, this is the dough formulation you used:

Flour (100%):
Water (59%):
IDY (0.55%):
Morton's Kosher Salt (2%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (165.55%):
Single Ball:
4381.01 g  |  154.53 oz | 9.66 lbs
2584.79 g  |  91.17 oz | 5.7 lbs
24.1 g | 0.85 oz | 0.05 lbs | 8 tsp | 2.67 tbsp
87.62 g | 3.09 oz | 0.19 lbs | 6.08 tbsp | 0.38 cups
131.43 g | 4.64 oz | 0.29 lbs | 9.65 tbsp | 0.6 cups
43.81 g | 1.55 oz | 0.1 lbs | 10.99 tsp | 3.66 tbsp
7252.76 g | 255.83 oz | 15.99 lbs | TF = 0.0867
557.9 g | 19.68 oz | 1.23 lbs
Note: Dough is for 13 dough balls, for use in making 17" pizzas; nominal thickness factor = 0.085; bowl residue compensation = 2%

The above thickness factor is in line with what is used for the NY street style pizza. So, I do not have a good explanation at this point as to why the rim of the pizza you showed did not rise that much. If you stretched the skin out beyond 17", that would help explain your results.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1669 on: April 03, 2013, 12:45:13 PM »
Norma,

It looks like I misspoke in my last post on the thickness factor. I couldn't recall your ever using a thickness factor of around 0.06, so I went back to Reply 1565 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg246169.html#msg246169, where you posted your latest dough formulation, to see what you actually did. I had a hard time reading the formulation shown there but with a little effort I was able to reconstruct the formulation using the expanded dough calculating tool. In the course of doing so, I also saw that you used Kosher salt (Morton's) rather than regular salt. For the record, this is the dough formulation you used:

Flour (100%):
Water (59%):
IDY (0.55%):
Morton's Kosher Salt (2%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (165.55%):
Single Ball:
4381.01 g  |  154.53 oz | 9.66 lbs
2584.79 g  |  91.17 oz | 5.7 lbs
24.1 g | 0.85 oz | 0.05 lbs | 8 tsp | 2.67 tbsp
87.62 g | 3.09 oz | 0.19 lbs | 6.08 tbsp | 0.38 cups
131.43 g | 4.64 oz | 0.29 lbs | 9.65 tbsp | 0.6 cups
43.81 g | 1.55 oz | 0.1 lbs | 10.99 tsp | 3.66 tbsp
7252.76 g | 255.83 oz | 15.99 lbs | TF = 0.0867
557.9 g | 19.68 oz | 1.23 lbs
Note: Dough is for 13 dough balls, for use in making 17" pizzas; nominal thickness factor = 0.085; bowl residue compensation = 2%

The above thickness factor is in line with what is used for the NY street style pizza. So, I do not have a good explanation at this point as to why the rim of the pizza you showed did not rise that much. If you stretched the skin out beyond 17", that would help explain your results.

Peter

Peter,

In my last post I should have told you about what TF I used, to save you from having to do the calculations again.  The only reason I didn’t is because I recalled I had used 0.08 something, but have my print out sheet at market.  I knew the pizzas I made yesterday sure weren’t as thin as around 0.06.  Thanks for doing the calculations again for the record. 

I don’t know why either I didn’t have a lot of rise in the rim, but there must be something to really pressing on the dough and skin when opening and maybe also the right hydration.  I have to try the same dough next week without really pressing on the dough ball and skin to see what happens.  I will imagine there would be more oven spring if those methods aren’t used.

I did change to Kosher salt, because that is normally what I have at market.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1670 on: April 10, 2013, 06:51:02 AM »
I tried a couple of experiments on not really pressing on the dough balls while opening into skins and the same dough balls do get more oven spring if the dough balls really aren’t pressed on a lot. 

For the dough formulation I am using right now the dough balls are the easiest I ever had to open into skins and the dough balls feel so soft when taking them out of the plastic bags.  The rim crust is also tender after the bake, even if there isn’t a lot of oven spring on the dough balls when I really press out the skins.  The bottom crust just has the right amount of crisp for me.

Steve brought me some Escalon Bonta to try on the boardwalk style pizza that he purchased at Salino’s in Reading http://www.salinosimporting.com/  I am not sure what kind of Escalon Bonta it was, http://www.escalon.net/products/bonta-pizza-sauce.aspx
but it tasted about the same as the Gangi I am using now .  I might be purchasing the Escalon Bonta since I found out it tastes almost exactly the same as the Gangi and because I wouldn’t have to travel as far to purchase it.  Steve also goes to Salino’s fairly often and he said he would pick me up cases of the Escalon Bonta if I wanted any cases.

I had a couple that came to my stand yesterday and they said they had tasted many different pizzas from pizzerias in our area since moving from Philly.  They said my pizzas were the best they had tasted and purchased 4 whole pizzas yesterday.  They also said they would be back regularly to purchase the pizzas.

The “pasta lady” at market really likes the “boardwalk style” of pizzas and has told many people about then.  The pasta lady is a fan of Grotto’s pizza and has traveled to Italy different times to eat many kinds of pizza.   She also gave me two plastic menu holders yesterday and told me to make some signs about my boardwalk style of pizza and the Detroit style of pizza.  She said she would put them at her pasta stand next week. 
 
Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1671 on: April 10, 2013, 06:54:11 AM »
Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1672 on: April 10, 2013, 07:00:49 AM »
A stand holder next to me wanted to purchase a whole pizza last evening after I had my oven shut off for over a half hour.  I told him my oven was already shut off, but he told me if the pizza took longer to baked it was okay with him.  I was surprised that there was still some oven spring in the rim of that pizza, even though the bake took much longer.  He said the pizza was good.  It can be seen that the middle of the crust wanted to bubble a little in the bake because the dough ball was opened right out of the pizza fridge.  The dough ball did open very easily when cold though.

Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1673 on: April 10, 2013, 10:20:22 AM »
A stand holder next to me wanted to purchase a whole pizza last evening after I had my oven shut off for over a half hour.  I told him my oven was already shut off, but he told me if the pizza took longer to baked it was okay with him.  I was surprised that there was still some oven spring in the rim of that pizza, even though the bake took much longer.  He said the pizza was good.  It can be seen that the middle of the crust wanted to bubble a little in the bake because the dough ball was opened right out of the pizza fridge.  The dough ball did open very easily when cold though.

Norma

It's look very tasty pizza I have ever see. congratulation

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1674 on: April 10, 2013, 10:58:01 AM »
It's look very tasty pizza I have ever see. congratulation

Justin Le,

Thanks for your kind comment! 

Norma


 

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