Author Topic: NJ Boardwalk Pizza  (Read 182825 times)

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Offline BenLee

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1740 on: July 25, 2013, 12:08:43 PM »
BenLee,

No yeast?

Peter

oops, it said 1 pkg of dry yeast.  I think her Aunt modified it for home use. 


Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1741 on: July 25, 2013, 01:07:28 PM »
oops, it said 1 pkg of dry yeast.  I think her Aunt modified it for home use.

Thanks about the yeast amount BenLee!  Do you know what kind of flour that is supposed to be used for that recipe?  It seems like it would be a quick dough with that amount of yeast.  It does look like her Aunt modified it for home use.

Norma
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Offline BenLee

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1742 on: July 26, 2013, 09:28:31 PM »
Nah, that's just what's written.  To be honest, her grandmother copied the recipe, probably 40 years ago, and never bothered to write down the brand.  I figure though, at least the ratio's they use is pretty useful. 

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1743 on: July 26, 2013, 09:35:03 PM »
Wonder how many brands of flour were available 40 yrs. ago?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 09:48:16 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1744 on: July 26, 2013, 09:44:44 PM »
Nah, that's just what's written.  To be honest, her grandmother copied the recipe, probably 40 years ago, and never bothered to write down the brand.  I figure though, at least the ratio's they use is pretty useful.

BenLee,

The ratio's of ingredients are helpful.  ;D I ate at Mack's pizza over 40 years ago and their pizzas were better then in my opinion.

Norma

 
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scott123

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1745 on: July 27, 2013, 04:00:49 AM »
I ate at Mack's pizza over 40 years ago and their pizzas were better then in my opinion.

Just about everywhere was better then  ;D And this isn't old man rose tinted "things just aren't what they used to be" glasses I'm wearing, either. Pizza was way better.

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1746 on: July 27, 2013, 06:27:41 AM »
Just about everywhere was better then  ;D And this isn't old man rose tinted "things just aren't what they used to be" glasses I'm wearing, either. Pizza was way better.

Scott,

I know I posted that over 40 years ago I thought Mack's pizza was better than it is now, but do you think that maybe that might have to do with me tasting and making more pizzas myself now?  I know you also did eat pizzas pretty many years ago in NY and NJ and I tasted a fair amount of pizzas in Brooklyn and around NYC in the last 20 or so years.  I wonder if both of us have decided since we have been able to make and taste our own pizzas if that doesn't have something to do how we perceive those pizzas of years ago.  I wouldn't think that Mack's or some of those pizzerias in NY have changed their dough recipes or their ingredients in the intervening years that much.  Even a couple of years ago I thought Mack's pizza is way better than it is now.  You even mentioned in one of my threads that your beloved Joe's Pizzas have also deteriorated in taste somewhat. 

Norma   
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scott123

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1747 on: July 27, 2013, 07:28:49 AM »
Norma, when it comes to pizza (as well as food in general), my taste buds have a photographic memory.  My most vivid memories revolve around food- around taste.

My local neighborhood pizzeria, Suvios, opened in 1979.  Because they had video games in the back, and because there was a video game arcade a couple doors up, from the moment it opened, I was there almost every non school non sleeping moment. Right now, I can close my eyes and go right back to that taste.  The little bit of char on the undercrust, the almost white incredibly puffy rim, the gummy pink nodules of the crust when you pull the cheese away.  It's seared into my mind.  I can't really remember my first kiss as well as I can remember my first slice  ;D   My closest description would be Best, but puffier and far more flavorful.  Most of my adult life was spent trying to recreate that slice, and, for the most part, I'm confident that I have.

When Suvios opened, for about the first 5 years, they traded county newspaper accolades with a place across town, Pete's.  Pete's was a little more golden brown and had a lot more oregano.  This was all happening when I was in junior high school, so I didn't have access to a car, but I had a bike, and I biked to Pete's quite a lot.  I recall being dropped off at the library once, and rather than studying, walking to Pete's for a slice and Baskin Robbins for a chocolate shake  >:D Pete's was different, but just as phenomenal as Suvios and well worthy of the awards.

The moment I got my driver's license, I was in the family car driving everywhere. My friends and I covered unbelievable ground. We didn't cross over the Hudson River, but we ate pizza all over Northern NJ. And we weren't obsessives.  We were just teenagers, getting into trouble, and grabbing a slice.  Back then, that was pretty much what teenagers ate. Suvios and Pete's were a bit of a pinnacle of the pizza at the time.  The huge slices in Hoboken where in this realm as well, but everything seemed to be a notch below.  But that notch was minimal.  It was like Suvios/Pete/Hoboken were a 10 and everywhere else was 9.75.  You'd be really hard pressed to find anything mediocre.  It wasn't until about 15 years later, when I moved into Manhattan where I first started discovering mediocre, uninspired pizza (midtown!  >:(). At the same time, though, I also discovered Joes.  If Suvios was a 10, Joes circa 1993 was an 11- at the time, Joe's was another universe. 

But 1993 takes us outside of the era presently being discussed. From 1979 through 1990, in Northern NJ (and most likely all the outer boroughs, since the same Italian American population was distributed throughout these areas fairly equally) it was as difficult getting a less than great slice as it is to find a decent slice now- an entire region of 9.75 to 10 quality pizza transformed into almost ubiquitous 2-4 grade pies. Suvios is still around, as is Pete's, but, like everywhere else, it's all taken a turn towards mediocrity.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 07:33:12 AM by scott123 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1748 on: July 27, 2013, 08:16:28 AM »
The ratio's of ingredients are helpful. 
Norma,

It appears that the recipe that BenLee posted was a home recipe, not a commercial one. I am using my iPad today and can't show you the dough formulation usig the expanded dough calculating tool, but three cups of flour with 1 1/2 cups of water yields a hydration of over 80%, even when using a high gluten flour measured out with a fairly heavy hand (scooping, shaking, etc.). Also, a full packet of yeast would correspond more to an emergency type of dough. It's also hard to know what to make of the small amounts of salt and oil called for by the recipe at this point.

Peter

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1749 on: July 27, 2013, 08:47:18 AM »
Rocky Mtn., that was a great post. Thanks. Norma is such a great contributor ro this forum and its great to read about how her efforts have affected others so positively.


Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1750 on: July 27, 2013, 09:50:58 AM »
Norma, when it comes to pizza (as well as food in general), my taste buds have a photographic memory.  My most vivid memories revolve around food- around taste.

My local neighborhood pizzeria, Suvios, opened in 1979.  Because they had video games in the back, and because there was a video game arcade a couple doors up, from the moment it opened, I was there almost every non school non sleeping moment. Right now, I can close my eyes and go right back to that taste.  The little bit of char on the undercrust, the almost white incredibly puffy rim, the gummy pink nodules of the crust when you pull the cheese away.  It's seared into my mind.  I can't really remember my first kiss as well as I can remember my first slice  ;D   My closest description would be Best, but puffier and far more flavorful.  Most of my adult life was spent trying to recreate that slice, and, for the most part, I'm confident that I have.

When Suvios opened, for about the first 5 years, they traded county newspaper accolades with a place across town, Pete's.  Pete's was a little more golden brown and had a lot more oregano.  This was all happening when I was in junior high school, so I didn't have access to a car, but I had a bike, and I biked to Pete's quite a lot.  I recall being dropped off at the library once, and rather than studying, walking to Pete's for a slice and Baskin Robbins for a chocolate shake  >:D Pete's was different, but just as phenomenal as Suvios and well worthy of the awards.

The moment I got my driver's license, I was in the family car driving everywhere. My friends and I covered unbelievable ground. We didn't cross over the Hudson River, but we ate pizza all over Northern NJ. And we weren't obsessives.  We were just teenagers, getting into trouble, and grabbing a slice.  Back then, that was pretty much what teenagers ate. Suvios and Pete's were a bit of a pinnacle of the pizza at the time.  The huge slices in Hoboken where in this realm as well, but everything seemed to be a notch below.  But that notch was minimal.  It was like Suvios/Pete/Hoboken were a 10 and everywhere else was 9.75.  You'd be really hard pressed to find anything mediocre.  It wasn't until about 15 years later, when I moved into Manhattan where I first started discovering mediocre, uninspired pizza (midtown!  >:(). At the same time, though, I also discovered Joes.  If Suvios was a 10, Joes circa 1993 was an 11- at the time, Joe's was another universe. 

But 1993 takes us outside of the era presently being discussed. From 1979 through 1990, in Northern NJ (and most likely all the outer boroughs, since the same Italian American population was distributed throughout these areas fairly equally) it was as difficult getting a less than great slice as it is to find a decent slice now- an entire region of 9.75 to 10 quality pizza transformed into almost ubiquitous 2-4 grade pies. Suvios is still around, as is Pete's, but, like everywhere else, it's all taken a turn towards mediocrity.

Scott,

Thank you for telling me your interesting stories about you and the pizzas you loved and all what happened in your life with pizza.  Lol, about you not recalling your first kiss.  I sure can recall my first kiss and it was when I wasn't even a teenager and was ice skating for many miles on a frozen creek.  I knew that guy that was a few years older than me and did know him well because he also lived in the same small town I lived in, but sure didn't think he would ever kiss me.  :o He was talking to me while we were ice skating alone and just stopped, grabbed me and kissed me.  I will never forgot how shocked I was.   :-D

Thank you for telling me your closest description would be Best Pizza, but puffier and far more flavorful.  Is the formulation you posted here on the forum the best pizza you think you have ever made?

Why do you think the great pizzas have gone downhill, except for changing people in the same pizza businesses?

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1751 on: July 27, 2013, 09:57:31 AM »
Norma,

It appears that the recipe that BenLee posted was a home recipe, not a commercial one. I am using my iPad today and can't show you the dough formulation usig the expanded dough calculating tool, but three cups of flour with 1 1/2 cups of water yields a hydration of over 80%, even when using a high gluten flour measured out with a fairly heavy hand (scooping, shaking, etc.). Also, a full packet of yeast would correspond more to an emergency type of dough. It's also hard to know what to make of the small amounts of salt and oil called for by the recipe at this point.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me it appears that the recipe BenLee posted is a home recipe and not a commercial one.  Thanks for telling me even though you can't show the dough formulation the hydration is over 80%.  :o I think that recipe won't work out to try to make a Mack's, or Manco & Manco pizza.  I can't even work with an 80% hydration in a Detroit style pizza.

Norma
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Offline Fire-n-smoke

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1752 on: July 27, 2013, 10:22:13 AM »
Just about everywhere was better then  ;D And this isn't old man rose tinted "things just aren't what they used to be" glasses I'm wearing, either. Pizza was way better.

I agree.  When I had Mack's when I was younger (atleast a hundred years ago it seems   :-D) it did seem to be better.  could be the change  - even if slightly - of manufacturing processes for ingredients or even new employees not following the ingredients list to the letter that makes them seem different.  Or Norma is right in that making our own pizzas has changed the way our taste buds think!

I feel the same way about some of the places I had eaten years ago, two of them being Tacconelli's and Lorenzo's in Philly.  I loved Lorenzo's when I was younger; we would go to 9th street to get fresh churned "vat" butter, spices and vegges then stop off at Lorenzo's before heading home.  Man I always looked forward to Saturday shopping!!! :drool:
Also Taconelli's seems to have changed.  Used to be a very good pie when I played for a neighborhood baseball team; we would eat there almost all the time since our coach lived down the street and the school/church sponsor was around the corner.  Seems that the pies now are more like cardboard (they are hit and miss) and the atmosphere has changed where you can have a pleasant experience or get a waitress who is out of her mind!  Seems like the experience itself can change the "flavor" of the pie.

Then again, I still miss those days but as for Mack's I was just there this week and between the pizza, the seaguls screeching, the noise of the crowds and the smell of salt air I still had one great time!

tom
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 10:23:55 AM by Fire-n-smoke »

scott123

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1753 on: July 27, 2013, 02:21:13 PM »
Why do you think the great pizzas have gone downhill, except for changing people in the same pizza businesses?

Norma, over the years, I've bandied around a few theories as to the cause of the deterioration of NY area pizza, including a move towards younger, less experienced help (that couldn't stretch the dough thin), cheap pizzeria owners that wanted to save on gas bills and ran their ovens cooler, and the influence of chain pizzerias.  While I still believe these to be valid theories, I've continued to wrack my brain on this topic and, in recent months, a slightly revised theory, a theory that I strongly believe in, has come to me.

The root cause is the chains, but it goes deeper than the independents getting their behinds beating by the chains and chainifying their pies in order to compete.  It's the reason why the independents got their behinds beat in the first place.  Television. I watch a load of TV now, but I believe I was one of the last generations of kids that weren't planted in front of a TV.  Dominos knew that they could never produce a crust on par with the independents, so they came up with the idea of loading up their pizzas with everything but the kitchen sink and advertising the living daylights out of it. In order to accommodate these heavy toppings, they had to increase the thickness factor for a sturdier crust.  They didn't care if the increased TF made for a crappier crust- they weren't selling good pizza- they were selling an image of what people might think to be good pizza, while cutting corners in quality and lining their coffers with gold.

And they pummeled this image into the minds of children with TV babysitters from sea to shining sea, year after year.  And it worked- in a massive way.  These pied pipers walked all these children right off a cliff- and are continuing to walk these now grown up children off the cliff every day- soul after unsuspecting soul plummeting towards pizza quality calamity.

The independents couldn't impact the public psyche in the same way.  A steaming meat lovers pizza flashed on the screens of millions and millions started salivating like zombies leering at brains, groaning,"me must have". "Me MUST have." And one by one, the independents made the tragic calculation that in order to compete they must sell something similar. It didn't make any difference that they could have likely kept on being just as profitable selling world class pies, they drank the kool aid just like everyone else.

Corporations are here to make money.  Making money rarely goes hand in hand with providing the best food for customers.  Corporatization and globalization have brought quite a few advances to society, but we've also paid/are paying the price in good food. In the past, the French have understood this better than anyone.  French farmers used to riot at McDonalds.  For decades they fought food globalization like it was a life threatening virus bent on world destruction.  They fought so valiantly and for so long.

But, alas, there's TVs in France  :) And where there's a TV, you'll find a kid in front of it.

"Maman, pouvons-nous aller à McDonalds? S'il vous plaît?"

The good news is that people can wake up.  If you see something delicious on the TV, go to the fast food restaurant and get crap, over and over again, you can start to learn that corporations aren't looking out for your best interests. I think this is part of the appeal of Neapolitan pizza- it has a pure, authentic, rustic, pre-corporation, pre-commodification, pre-gentrification artistry. The fact that NP is gaining such popularity, without any advertising whatsoever, is incredibly encouraging.  All we have to get across to people is that NY style, in conscientious hands, can have that exact level of artistry, of authenticity.

I don't think we'll ever go back to the golden age of NY area pizza, but, if we make world class pizza, help others make it and shout our undying love for this pizza from the rooftops, someone's going to listen.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 02:40:21 PM by scott123 »

Offline slybarman

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1754 on: July 27, 2013, 07:29:28 PM »
Scott,  in a lot of areas,  though not necessarily nyc, i think fast delivery, low price, a wider delivery area, and later hours made the chains popular. The quality of the pie took a backseat to those other factors.

Offline redox

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1755 on: July 27, 2013, 07:58:22 PM »
The steep decline in pizza quality in my town is what led me to hunt for better ways to make pizza at home. Of course, that led me here. The very last pizza place in Toledo that I  liked, started to go downhill and I was panicked that I'd have nowhere to get good pizza anymore. Yea, pizzamaking.com. Even if I never make another new pizza style or version, I'm still set for life for high quality pizza.

Offline Ronzo

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1756 on: July 27, 2013, 09:18:44 PM »
The steep decline in pizza quality in my town is what led me to hunt for better ways to make pizza at home. Of course, that led me here. The very last pizza place in Toledo that I  liked, started to go downhill and I was panicked that I'd have nowhere to get good pizza anymore. Yea, pizzamaking.com. Even if I never make another new pizza style or version, I'm still set for life for high quality pizza.
It's what led a lot of us here. When I moved to Austin, TX from upstate NY, there were very few decent pizza joints here. Thankfully, that's changed a lot in the past 8 years I've been on the site. Still... I've learned a lot more about pizza and what I like in pizza than I ever had before I got here.
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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1757 on: July 27, 2013, 10:05:01 PM »
Scott,

I agree with your post and the following posts by Steve, Jay and Ron.

Norma
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Offline BKK_Mick

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1758 on: August 03, 2013, 01:21:59 AM »
I am glad I found this thread, this the same kind of pizza that I grew up eating in Adelaide, South Australia.
A thin crust with a little bit of chewiness and a slightly crispy thicker rim with some air bubbles.

My current favorite takeaway in Bangkok also does a similar pizza but unfortunately the pizza in the photo below had a little bit less air bubbles and the rim was thinner than usual. They properly rolled out the trapped air bubbles, which I don't like as much.

Next step is to try and replicate it when I next fire up the oven.

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1759 on: August 03, 2013, 08:14:32 AM »
I am glad I found this thread, this the same kind of pizza that I grew up eating in Adelaide, South Australia.
A thin crust with a little bit of chewiness and a slightly crispy thicker rim with some air bubbles.

My current favorite takeaway in Bangkok also does a similar pizza but unfortunately the pizza in the photo below had a little bit less air bubbles and the rim was thinner than usual. They properly rolled out the trapped air bubbles, which I don't like as much.

Next step is to try and replicate it when I next fire up the oven.

BKK_Mick,

I am glad you think this thread will help you made the style of pizza that you grew up eating in Adelaide, South Australia.  I hope you will post some photos or let us know when you fire up your oven if you can achieve the style of pizza you want to create.

What type of flours do you have available in Bangkok and what kind of oven do you use?

Norma
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