NJ Boardwalk Pizza

[norma427]

I have been corresponding with the man that wrote about DeLorenzo’s pizza being similar to Mack and Manco's pizza.

Here is some of what he wrote in the two times we have corresponded.  Maybe we can also get more information about DeLorenzo’s pies. 

I grew up about 1,500 feet from DeLorenzo's on Hamilton Avenue. I go there about ten times a year.It is superb. It is a thin very crispy crusted pizza that features a clean flavor of superior olive oil, and fresh tomato flavor. I must get down to Ocean City to taste Mack and Manco's soon. I always loved it's flavor in the past. Maruca's on the boardwalk in Seaside Park is also of high quality.
P.S. I had a very good pie this afternoon in Trenton: Papa's Tomato Pies, the second oldest pizzeria in America.

My family goes out to Lancaster County about once a year. I believe I know where you are, not far from Greystone Manor. I'll have to look you up if we come there this summer. I'll ask what type of flour they use, but one thing I do know is that their use of olive oil is of the highest quality; that is, it isn't just an ordinary blend it's pure olive oil, perhaps extra virgin, which costs more but tastes superior. I am not a baker but the aroma OUTSIDE DeLorenzo's is of the fine smell of good quality olive oil. That much I know. Are you Amish? We've been coming to Pennsylvania for decades. We love the Amish and we love your area.

Norma

[norma427]

Pinocchio is a fictional character that first appeared in 1883, in The Adventures of Pinocchio by Carlo Collodi,  Carved from a piece of pine by a woodcarver named Geppetto in a small Italian village, he was created as a wooden puppet, but dreamt of becoming a real boy. The name Pinocchio is a Tuscan word meaning "pine nut”.

The story of Pinocchio is fascinating. It goes along the story lines of... "Every time you tell a lie, your nose will grow. When you tell the truth, it will shrink," said the Blue Fairy.

In Disney’s production of “Pinocchio”, Jiminy Cricket watches Geppeto  finish the work on Pinocchio.  The Blue Fairy asks if Jiminy would serve as Pinocchio's conscience, a task he accepts.  There are many adventures in this Disney production, but in the end, the Blue Fairy decides that Pinocchio has proven himself unselfish and thus fulfills her promise to turn him into a real boy, bringing him back to life, much to the delight of Geppetto and Jiminy.

When Jiminy Cricket sings he song "When You Wish upon a Star", it reminds me of wishing for this dough to turn into a Mack’s pizza.  Pinocchio and Geppetto are also standing over the dough wishing the same thing. 

The poppy seeds are expanding laterally, but Pinocchio and Geppeto said to wait until tomorrow to try and make the pizza.  I guess they know what they are talking about. 

Norma

[norma427]

This is the first attempt to make a pie like Mack’s at home.  I ran into some problems today, while trying to make this pie.  I had planned out how I was going to make this pie.  The one problem was I took the dough ball out of the refrigerator this morning at 9:00 am to let it warm up.  I then should have grated the cheese at market, because my food processor or grater doesn’t grate the cheese as coarsely. As a starting point with the cheeses, I used 5.5 oz. of mild white cheddar and 5.5 oz. of Mozzarella.  Since I am not sure if Mack’s uses all mild white cheddar or what their blend is, this would give me a good start in deciding if I needed to go up or down with the mozzarella.
I used 10 oz. of the Full Red Sauce and added 1 gr of Garlic powder. This sauce seems to have a very fresh flavor. It looked like about the same consistency as what Mack’s uses in their hoses. Next I measured out 1 gr of oregano to put on the top of the pizza, before going into the oven.   

The dough ball coming out of the refrigerator did look like the first two pictures, top and bottom.  I didn’t expect any company today, but about 10:00 am, company came.  Of course I was happy to receive company, but didn’t pay any attention to the dough ball on the table.  The dough ball stayed on the table about an hour more than I wanted it to. I then looked at the dough ball and by looking at the poppy seeds could see the dough was really starting to ferment more than I had planned. Third picture below. The dough ball was then put back into the refrigerator until I could heat the oven and get the other things out I needed. 

I must have had a duh moment when thinking about making this pizza and didn’t plan very well.  I forgot I had taken my larger peel to market, incase my other one would spit.  I only then had an almost 14" peel to use.  Well..I proceeded. 

I took the dough ball out of the refrigerator and didn’t give it anymore warm up time.  The dough handled well and I could even toss it.  Then another dilemma. Mission Control..we do have a problem. How do you put a 16" inch pizza on the smaller peel.  The sides draped over the two side edges.  I proceeded and dressed the pie.  When I went to put the pie on the stone, the edge of the one side stuck to the stone before I could get the pizza off the peel.  Well finally I got the pizza on the stone. Of course some of the cheese had to drip off on the one side and made a burnt mess in the bottom of the oven.  The pizza then baked.

When I opened the oven door it did smell like a Mack’s pizza.  I was then anxious to taste it.  In my opinion it didn’t have enough mild white cheddar and I will need to add more mild white cheddar and less mozzarella the next time.  The sauce did closely resemble the Mack’s pizza.

The stars weren’t aligned today.

Norma

Edit:  The sauce and cheese weren't placed to the edges as much as I had planned, because I wondered what was going to happen with the smaller peel.

[norma427]

rest of pictures

Norma

[norma427]

A slice of the pizza made yesterday was reheated this morning to see if I could detect the flavor of the white mild cheddar cheese.  I first sampled a small part of a slice cold.  Then reheated the rest of the slice.  What surprised me, was I couldn’t detect much white cheddar flavor.  I sample the mild white cheddar cheese plus the 2 kinds of mozzarella when I grate them each week at market.  I am now wondering how much cheddar could be used or if Mack’s might use a medium or sharp cheddar. I don’t think there is much difference in cheddar in relation to color because they add a coloring additive to cheddar that comes from a plant extract of the achiote tree called annatto, which gives some cheddar the darker or orange color.  Since I want to try to make this Mack’s pizza as authentic as I can, I don’t want to use colored cheddar. 

When I talk to my supplier of the cheeses I use at market, I sometimes talk to him about what kinds of blends different pizza businesses are using around our area.  From what he has told me, there aren’t a lot of businesses that are using a lot of cheddar in their blend.  I will have to ask him again about what kinds of cheddar they carry.  They do supply deli's with cheese, so they should also carry the mild or sharp cheddar.

I read somewhere on the web that Mack’s might be using a stronger cheddar than the mild.  Does anyone have any opinions on this or have experiences in using a medium or sharp cheddar, when making a pizza? 

I am also curious about scott r made out with his pizza and how it looked and tasted. 

I did edit my last post on why the cheese and sauce weren't put to the edges more.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

When I was playing around with the Papa Gino's clone doughs/pizzas, I used a blend of low-moisture, part-skim mozzarella cheese, New York sharp white cheddar cheese, and grated Romano cheese. The NY sharp white cheddar cheese was the only white cheddar cheese that I could find at my local supermarket that was reasonably priced. The ratios I tried were 70/28/2 (mozz/cheddar/Romano) and 75/23/2. I could detect the white cheddar cheese in both blends. Interestingly, when I later had a real Papa Gino's pizza, I could not tell that the cheese blend included cheddar cheese. I suspect that PGs was either using a mild white cheddar cheese or a stronger white cheddar cheese in small amounts.

Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

Thanks you for telling me what your experiences were is using the sharp white cheddar in the blend.  That is also interesting that you then didn’t note the taste of cheddar when you tried the real Papa Gino's pizza.  I also notice when using my blend at market you can’t detect the mild white cheddar in the finished pizza.

I think, but don’t know, that whatever Mack’s is using by the way of cheese,  this is why their pizza tastes so different.  The pizza I made yesterday had the smell of Mack’s pizza, but not the taste in the cheese.  Even this morning when I ate some cold and then reheated, I couldn’t really taste the cheddar that much.  I believed in time, this could be something that could be figured out.

Maybe someone else will also have an opinion on the cheddar cheese.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

You might recall from the video at

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1VqTOgJKM0&amp;NR=1" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1VqTOgJKM0&amp;NR=1</a>

that the young father held up a slice of the Mack's pizza to let it drip, at which point the cheeses started to slide off the slice, at about 1:15-1:22 of the video. Since the pizza was a basic cheese pizza without any other toppings, the dripping would have to come from either or both of the sauce and cheeses. I also recall from my reading that customers frequently complained that the Mack's pizzas were excessively oily, and I remember that one commentor blamed the cheddar cheese. As you know, different cheeses have different amounts of fat (e.g., whole milk versus part-skim and mozzarella versus cheddar) and can oil off differently during the bake. The amount of cheese(s) will also be a factor, as well as the condition of the pizza at the time of eating. For example, in the video, the pizza looked like it was hot right out of the oven and had not yet cooled as to allow the cheeses and fats to congeal.

When I checked the Nutrition Facts for the LMPS mozzarella cheese and the NY sharp white cheddar cheese currently in my refrigerator, the cheddar cheese has 50% more total fat than the LMPS mozzarella cheese for a same-size serving (one ounce). If you can replicate the cheese types and amounts so that a freshly baked slice drips of the fats and other liquids, you might be able to come closer to the cheese aspect of the Mack's clone that you are after.

Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

Thanks you going over the video and also Nutritional Facts on the two cheeses you have.  That is interesting you have noted that the cheddar has much more fat than the mozzarella.  I will look on the Nutritional Facts on the white cheddar when I go to market today.  That will give another clue in what might be in the cheeses.  I will have to call my supplier and see if he knows any thing else about what kinds of cheddar he carries or also their fat content.  I will do that in the next few days.  I now 3 different cheeses in my blend at market and will also see what their fat content is.

As to the cheese sliding off the pies at Mack's, that is part of the experience in their pies being different.  When they are hot, you try to keep all the cheese on while taking a bite.  The cheese is really gooey.  If you look at ERASMO’s pictures of the pie he purchased it appears the pie has cooled down some. The customers that complain that the cheese is too oily, probably aren’t the ones that enjoy this type of pizza.

I have been corresponding with another person that is working at Wildwood this year.  This person has eaten Mack’s pizza 4 times this year, so far. He has worked at Wildwood for the past few years. His only complaint was the one day he went to get a slice and it had to be reheated and then the slice wasn’t good...hmmm

Norma

[scott r]

norma, I wish I had a camera to show you the pizza I made, but I dont.   All I can say is that I am pretty sure the 59% hydration seems about right.   Also, my friend that worked at macs didn't remember there being two cheeses blended together.   I think you should try 100% mild white cheddar from wisconsin. 

[norma427]

scott r,

Thanks for telling me the 59% hydration seems about right and also telling that I should try all white cheddar.  I had also wondered about that since you said in your other post, that your friend didn’t remember unloading anything but mild white cheddar.  When I tasted the pie it seemed like there wasn’t enough mild white cheddar.  I have the mild white cheddar from Wisconsin, but am not sure if it’s the right kind.  I did just grate white cheddar today and have it in a separate container to try tomorrow.  This what my dough ball looked like today, from Friday.  I wish I could have seen your pie and also tasted it.    Did you ever eat pizza at Mack’s or Mack and Manco?  Did your friend give you an opinion on how he thought Mack’s pies were?

Norma

Peter,

I did check on my cheeses today and found that 1 oz. of mild white cheddar had 9 gr. of fat, low moisture whole cheese mozzarella had 7 gr of fat, and 1950 Brand 127 low moisture part skim mozzarella had 5 gr of fat.  After reading what scott r just posted and seeing the amount of fat in the mild white cheddar, I could now believe how the cheese would get gooey and slide off, if this is what they are using in the Mack’s pie.  This could then create part of the unique taste of Mack’s and Mack and Manco.

Norma

[widespreadpizza]

Norma,  without re reading the whole thread,  I remember you saying that the sauce went on top of the pizza at Mack's.  That would further suggest a 100% cheddar blend to me,  as the top sauce would keep the cheddar from burning up.  Also,  fwiw,  the sharper the cheddar,  the quicker it breaks and burns in my experience.  -marc

[norma427]

widespreadpizza,

No need to re read this whole thread. There are two layers of cheese that go on the pizza.  If you look at this video it shows how the pies are dressed.
 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs4h5Gr_GKc" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs4h5Gr_GKc</a>

I appreciate the information how sharper cheddar breaks down and burns.  I never tried sharp cheddar on a pie, so my experience is limited. 

Thanks for your help,

Norma

[Ev]

Norma,

I went to Bova today. I have a can of Gangi for you. I'll bring it along tomorrow.

[norma427]

Norma,

I went to Bova today. I have a can of Gangi for you. I'll bring it along tomorrow.

Steve,

Great news to hear!    We will get to try the Mack's pizza tomorrow.  With all the help the forum members are giving, hopefully we will someday get this pizza right.

Thanks so much, 

Norma

[norma427]

Steve brought the Gangi Supreme with basil to market yesterday as can be seen in the picture below.  We both tasted the sauce right out of the can.  Since I had also tasted the Full Red right out of the can, I didn’t like the taste of the Gangi near as much.  We had to add water to the Gangi to get as near as we thought would be the consistency of Mack’s sauce.  We then decided the sauce needed a extra kick, so we added ½ tsp. sugar and 1/4 tsp. garlic powder. This was added to 18 oz. of the Gangi sauce. We put 18 oz. of Gangi sauce in the cake decorating kit to apply the sauce.  Of course some of the sauce stuck to the bag of the cake decorating kit and not all was applied to the pizza.

We used 12 oz. of mild white cheddar that was grated with the Pelican Head.  When I had grated the cheese on Monday, it had seemed to coarse, so I put it though the grater, again. 

While we were making the pizza, I was anxious to try the finished product.  I kept smelling to see if I could detect the smell of Mack’s pizza, but I couldn’t. 

I should have applied more sauce to the edges. 

This dough was very easy to open and it could be twirled many times in the air.  Although I am not a professional twirler like Mack’s piemen, I had fun twirling the dough.  The dough didn’t tear, after repeatedly throwing into the air.  Steve commented that you could keep stretching this dough almost forever.

Although the cheese was gooey, runny and did have a lot of grease like Mack’s pizza, in my opinion the taste of the cheddar wasn’t strong enough.  Wonder what kind of cheddar cheese Mack’s uses.

When Steve and I tasted the finished pizza the Gangi sauce in baked pizza did taste like Mack’s pizza in my opinion.

I gave Steve a dough ball and froze the other two to experiment with.

Any opinions on what kind of cheddar to try next? 

I was talking to Steve about wondering since I am now making pizza, if this pizza isn’t a fantasy in my mind because it was my favorite pizza for so many years.  I will have to wait and see if I get to taste the real Mack’s pizza, if this just stuck in my mind for so many years or if it is something that is still special to me.  Steve and I both enjoyed the gooey, runny, greasy cheese.

At least I didn't have the problems of the peel not being the right size and the pizza sticking to the stone today.  The stars are getting better. 

Norma

[norma427]

rest of pictures

Norma

[ERASMO]

Norma

What was your final dough formulation?

[norma427]

Norma

What was your final dough formulation?

ERASMO,

This is what I used for the formula.  Are you going to give the Mack's pizza a try, also?

Mack’s test-5 dough balls 59% hydration



Flour (100%):        1569.32 g  |  55.36 oz | 3.46 lbs
Water (59%):          925.9 g  |  32.66 oz | 2.04 lbs
IDY (0.20%):             3.14 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.04 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):           27.46 g | 0.97 oz | 0.06 lbs | 5.72 tsp | 1.91 tbsp
Olive Oil (2.5%):        39.23 g | 1.38 oz | 0.09 lbs | 8.72 tsp | 2.91 tbsp
Total (163.45%):   2565.05 g | 90.48 oz | 5.65 lbs | TF = 0.09
Single Ball:   513.01 g | 18.1 oz | 1.13 lbs

Thanks for your help with the Gangi sauce. 

Norma

[ERASMO]

Norma

My espionage will continue.  I am down  the shore every weekend and will continue my "Research".