Author Topic: NJ Boardwalk Pizza  (Read 180137 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ERASMO

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 278
  • Location: Springfield, PA
    • Wood Fired Ovens PA
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #200 on: May 07, 2010, 10:37:58 AM »
I did notice while sitting at Macks eating my slice that they all seem to push the dough down and strech it the same way.  The doughs are sitting in the prep area on trays with wax paper over them.  The dough balls are very flat!   maybe only 3/4" thick and appear oiled.  They put the dough ball in a bowl of flour, remove, and then place on the wooden prep table.  They then press the dough out flat with the tips of their fingers.  They press all over the dough ball even out to the edge.  Once that is done they actually strech the dough.  It seems like they are trying to press all the air bubbles out of the dough.

Thought this might be helpful.


Offline jasonm2674

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 4
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #201 on: May 07, 2010, 12:50:44 PM »
I remembered this morning another additional little tidbit.  The place they made the dough years ago was a couple blocks down from the store that is open year round.  It is near another of their shops but I cannot remember the street names.  Just before you go up the ramp to the boardwalk look left and it's under there.  There used to be a couple of locked dumpsters there as well.

I want to make this pizza so bad it's ridiculous :) It's been almost 20 years since I was there last and I swear it's the best pizza I've ever eaten.

Best wishes in the ongoing saga :)

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21951
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #202 on: May 07, 2010, 02:59:55 PM »
ERASMO,

Thanks for the additional tips about how Mack’s opens their dough and how the dough balls sit on trays with wax paper on them. 

By watching the video of the piemen, when they open the skins, it does look like they really don’t want much of a raised rim.

Norma

jasonm2674,

Thanks for remembering the addition tips on where Mack’s make their dough.  I think I know where you mean.  Hopefully when I am able to get down there, I will see if they might still make their dough the same place.  It right back in the alleyway.  I walked that way many times, but wasn’t interested in finding out about Mack’s pizza before. 

If you can remember anything else, let us know. 

I also want to see if Mack’s pizza is anything like it used to be.  Hopefully when this clone Mack’s pizza if finished, you will be able to taste a Mack’s pizza again.

Thanks for the additional information,

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21951
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #203 on: May 07, 2010, 03:36:45 PM »
jasonm2674,

Does this help refresh your memory, where the place they might be making the dough is?

Mack’s pizza in Wildwood Crest. 3218 Boardwalk

Mack’s pizza in Wildwood 4200 Boardwalk, Wildwood   I think Laura’s fudge is right off the boardwalk at this location, number 7 on the map.

Here is the map to Wildwood Boardwalk

http://www.app.com/section/BOARDWALKS07&template=map

Interactive Map of Wildwood, NJ

http://travel.yahoo.com/p-map-477776-map_of_wildwood_nj-i

Norma
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 03:53:50 PM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22063
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #204 on: May 08, 2010, 01:51:51 PM »
I recently made another Mack’s clone dough and pizza. This time, however, I made some changes based on my last results with this style of pizza. One of the major changes was to use a lower value of thickness factor, nominally 0.072, so as to achieve a thinner finished crust. I also reduced the hydration by one percent (to 57%), to reduce the dough extensibility, and I reduced the amount of yeast a bit (to 0.20%) to get a 3-day window of usability of the dough. I also used a different method to prepare the dough, as will be discussed more fully below. As before, I used a blend of King Arthur bread flour (KABF) and vital wheat gluten (VWG). I used the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ to calculate the amounts of KABF and VWG to achieve an “effective” protein content for the blend of 14.4%.

The dough formulation that I used, as put together using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, was as follows, for a single 18” pizza:

KABF/VWG Blend* (100%):
Water (57%):
IDY (0.20%):
Salt (2%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3%):
Sugar (1.25%):
Total (163.45%):
320.96 g  |  11.32 oz | 0.71 lbs
182.95 g  |  6.45 oz | 0.4 lbs
0.64 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.21 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
6.42 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.15 tsp | 0.38 tbsp
9.63 g | 0.34 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.12 tsp | 0.71 tbsp
4.01 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.01 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
524.62 g | 18.5 oz | 1.16 lbs | TF = 0.07272
Note: For a single 18” pizza; nominal thickness factor = 0.072; bowl residue compensation = 1%
*The KABF/VWG Blend comprises 310.84 grams (10.96 ounces) KABF and 10.12 grams (0.36 ounces) Hodgson Mill VWG (3 3/8 teaspoon)

Because of the relatively small amount of dough involved, 18.5 ounces, my original plan was to see if I could use my Cuisinart food processor (14-cup capacity), with the metal blade attached, to make the dough. To this end, I combined and placed all of the dry ingredients directly in the food processor bowl, and I combined the water and oil and gradually added the mixture to the food processor bowl while using the pulse feature. To keep the finished dough temperature below 80 degrees F, I used cold water, at a temperature of 47.7 degrees F. While the food processor did a pretty good job combining all of the dough ingredients, it struggled trying to knead the dough into a smooth round ball, even at full speed. I believe the cause was the relatively low hydration (57%) of the dough. So, I removed the dough from the processor bowl and finished kneading it in my basic KitchenAid mixer with the C-hook. I kneaded the dough at speed 2 for about 4 minutes. The combination of the food processor and KA stand mixer actually did a nice job of kneading the dough, so good, in fact, that I plan to experiment more with this method at a future date to see if it does a better job with other doughs with relatively low hydration than using either my food processor or stand mixer alone.

After hand kneading the dough for about 30 seconds, I lightly oiled it, placed two poppy seeds spaced 1” apart at the center of the dough ball, and, as before, placed the dough ball into a metal cookie tin with a sheet of plastic wrap covering the tin and secured with a rubber band. The dough, with a finished dough temperature of 77.3 degrees F, went into the refrigerator. Based on the spacing of the two poppy seeds during the fermentation period, the dough doubled in volume at almost exactly 72 hours (3 days). I decided to use the dough at this time. So, after removing the dough ball from the refrigerator, I flattened it into a roughly 8” disk, to simulate what I saw in the video at
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs4h5Gr_GKc" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs4h5Gr_GKc</a>
, and let the dough temper at a room temperature of about 78-79 degrees F for about 2 ½ hours. The dough disk looked and felt like what I saw from the video. As with the Mack’s dough disks shown in the video, the dough did not evidence any visible bubbling during the temper period.

When I decided to form the skin, I found that I could handle and shape the dough into an 18” skin much like I saw in the video. The dough wasn’t quite as robust as the doughs shown in the video, but there was a good balance between elasticity and extensibility and I had no problem opening up the dough ball, stretching it and tossing it. The dough handling was considerably easier than my last effort. Once the skin was at 18”, I placed it on my 18” pizza screen, pressed the outer rim so as to remain as flat as possible during baking, and dressed it. One difference I noted between my finished skin and a Mack’s skin as shown in the video is that my skin exhibited bubbling. I did not see it in the Mack’s skin in the video. In the past where I have seen little or no bubbling in the dough at this stage it was because of the use of a lot of oil. I am not sure if that is how Mack’s does it, but it is something to consider. It might also mean using even less yeast and/or possibly a shorter fermentation time.

This time, for the sauce, I used a 6-ounce can of Contadina tomato paste, which I thinned with water to the desired consistency and to which I added sugar, dried oregano, dried basil, and garlic powder. I placed around 6 ounces of the sauce, by weight, into my plastic squeeze bottle. With this sauce, I was trying mainly for the deeper sauce color that seems to be part of a Mack’s pizza. For cheese, I used a combination of shredded mild white cheddar cheese (O Organics brand) and shredded extra sharp NY white cheddar cheese (Lucerne brand). Both cheeses have 9 grams of total fat per serving. I used 8 ounces of the O Organics white cheddar cheese and 2 ounces of the extra sharp white cheddar cheese, for a total of 10 ounces. The pizza was dressed in the same manner as last described. The weight of the unbaked pizza was 927 grams, or about 32.7 ounces. Until Norma returns back from her trip to Mack’s et al, I won’t have a good idea as to what a typical Mack’s or M&M pizza weighs. I believe that getting the right weight of dough ball will go a long way to trying to replicate a Mack’s et al pizza.

In preparation for baking the pizza, I placed my 14” x 16” pizza stone on the lowest oven rack position of my electric oven and preheated the oven for about an hour at around 525 degrees F. To bake the pizza, I placed the screen with the pizza on it on the topmost oven rack position where it baked for about 3 ½ minutes, or until it had set and could be moved. The crust was still a light color but the cheeses were bubbling. I then moved the pizza off of the screen (which I then removed from the oven) onto the preheated pizza stone at the lowest oven rack position, where it finished baking for about another 3 minutes, or just long enough to develop char on the bottom of the crust but without burning.

The photos below show the finished product. Overall, I thought that the pizza turned out very well. However, while I didn’t get the “orange” oil/fat condition that I last got, the fats did not easily or profusely run off of the slices onto my paper plate. I believe that the reason was either that I didn’t use the right cheeses or I didn’t use enough. The latter case seems plausible because more of the sauce showed up visually in the finished pizza than the cheese. However, I think I know how to solve this problem the next time I make this type of pizza. The finished crust was also not as cracker-like at the rim as I was looking for, which suggests that I may need to adjust the bake temperature/times to get a slightly drier crust next time. However, I think that is something that can be addressed and resolved in a future effort. Even without the proper sauce and cheeses, I thoroughly enjoyed the pizza. The crust was thin with good color and flavor. There was some bubbling in the finished crust and a small amount of blistering.

What this latest effort demonstrated is that is seems feasible to make an 18” Mack’s clone pizza in a standard home oven using a pizza screen and stone combination in a straightforward manner without going through multiple contortions in the handling of the pizza and multiple oven temperature adjustments while the pizza bakes. Also, the broiler element is not used. Of course, those with a stone large enough to accommodate an 18” pizza without the need to use a pizza screen as I did should be able to bake the pizza entirely on the stone, possibly with better overall results. However, in my oven, the 18” screen is the largest size screen I can use. It cannot take a stone larger than that. FWIW, I estimate that my pizza cost me a bit over $5 in ingredients. M&M charges $14.50 for a plain 18" pizza.

Hopefully, Norma will return with more information to guide our future efforts.

Peter
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 10:36:22 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22063
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #205 on: May 08, 2010, 01:56:20 PM »
And some slice pics....

Peter

Offline pcampbell

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 767
  • Age: 34
  • Location: VT & NJ
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #206 on: May 08, 2010, 04:15:18 PM »
I might have to give this a try with this stuff I found at Restaurant Depot!
Patrick

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3288
  • Location: SF Bay Area
    • The Hobby Cook
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #207 on: May 08, 2010, 04:53:19 PM »
Peter,

That's a fantastic looking pie! Great job as usual...

I should give your formula a try.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22063
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #208 on: May 08, 2010, 05:47:44 PM »
Thanks, Mike. I hope you do give the Mack's clone a try. I'd like to see others do the same. The more members on the playing field the better.

It's a real challenge to try to reverse engineer and clone a pizza that you have never had, and using home equipment to do it. Also, making an 18" pizza with a hand tossed skin puts your skills to the test. Every time I make an 18" pizza I am amazed at how big such a pizza is. 

The photo below is of a leftover slice that I reheated today in my toaster oven. I put some additional shredded white cheddar cheese on the slice before reheating it. That is somewhat what I would like to achieve with a whole Mack's clone but in a more natural rather than a contrived way. My next iteration will address that issue along with any other issues that Norma may identify from her visit to Mack's et al.

Peter
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 02:47:11 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3288
  • Location: SF Bay Area
    • The Hobby Cook
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #209 on: May 08, 2010, 06:04:31 PM »
Peter,

I will. Perhaps this weekend. But since I never had the Mack's pizza I don't know what the characteristics of the crust should be or what to look out/shoot for.

I'm also dabbling around with my rustic sourdough pies so it might be fun to try two completely different crusts.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21951
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #210 on: May 09, 2010, 04:35:15 PM »
Peter,

I see you are using a lower value for the thickness factor.  I visited Wildwood this weekend.  I visited both Mack’s different times and I got to know the pizza men.  There are all really nice men.  I have a lot of pictures and videos to post after I finish uploading.  After visiting I now believe the thickness factor should go up. 

The Mack’s pizza did taste as wonderful as they did before in my opinion.  :) After really tasting the Mack’s pizza, I no longer believe that sharp white cheddar is used in making their pies. 

Your method sounds good in mixing the dough and also in making an 8" disk.  I am also now thinking maybe your idea of using a lower hydration is a good idea.  After tasting the real Mack’s pizza, I think the crust is more bread like, with a little crunch when eaten. 

Your finished pizza looks delicious.   :)

It will probably take me a couple days to write all the information and do the posts.

I see in post #208 you will address any other issues that Normal may identify.  After you see all that I am going to post, you might not consider me normal.  I did go dumpter diving at both Mack’s.

Norma

pcampbell,

I really don’t think after visiting Mack’s that the cheese is sharp cheddar.

Norma

Mike,

I hope you do try this clone Mack’s pizza, also.  :) It would be great to have you on board.  We will need all the help we can get in reverse engineering this pizza.  I am also hoping other members can look at these pictures and videos and give us some more ideas. I feel bad to post some of these things, because the people at both Mack’s were great.  They were so friendly.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21951
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #211 on: May 09, 2010, 05:17:30 PM »
We arrived at Wildwood about 9:45 pm Friday.  My daughter and I also took the dogs along to Wildwood.  After we unpacked our belongings we took the dogs for a long walk, to Mack’s pizza.  She stayed off the boardwalk and I went on the boardwalk to purchase two slices to take back to where we were staying.  I talked to the piemen and also took a video of them making a pie.  They were about to close and were making the last two pies.  They had just opened the dough while I was sitting there and had finished throwing the dough.  I will explain more about this later. 

These are a few pictures of Mack’s pizza, that we brought back to where we were staying to heat up in the microwave.

These pictures are why I think the crust is thicker than I previously thought. If anyone has the same thoughts let me know.  I will post other pictures, also.  It will take awhile to upload the videos.

Norma
   
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22063
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #212 on: May 09, 2010, 06:17:41 PM »
Norma,

I assume the slices are from an 18" pizza, or whatever diameter you measured. Can you confirm the weight for the slice on the scale and tell us part of the whole pizza it represented (e.g., 1/6th or 1/8th)?

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21951
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #213 on: May 09, 2010, 06:35:59 PM »
Norma,

I assume the slices are from an 18" pizza, or whatever diameter you measured. Can you confirm the weight for the slice on the scale and tell us part of the whole pizza it represented (e.g., 1/6th or 1/8th)?

Peter


These are the first two videos.  The first video the pieman had already opened the dough and had twirled it.  I had asked him if he could now still twirl the skin.  He said it was already opened, but tried.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4sm9NavMDU" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4sm9NavMDU</a>



The second video shows how the pieman dresses the pizza.  I was talking to women beside me, that were from Wildwood and come and eat Mack’s pizza all the time.  They also believe this pizza is the best.  They knew I was from Amish country with my accent.  I think in this video you can see how thick the hose is.  The women that were from Wildwood, were talking about the hose.  I asked the pieman if I could take this video.  He said he was making pizza for 25 years.  The oven was fluctuating between 564-570 degrees F that evening.  The other days the oven temperature was different temperatures.  There were no stones on any of the Roto-Flex ovens. I only bought 2 slices this night and had asked if I could come in a watch.  I weighed the slices when I got back to where we were staying and the 1 slice weighed 4.6 oz. and the second slice weighed 4.7 oz.  The dough looked dry and dark in color.  I found out later the dough looked more moist, when on the dough trays between the wax paper. The sauce didn’t look really thick and if I would have to guess, the hose seemed like it was about 1" in diameter.  It looked like the spices were added to the sauce.  You could see some oregano or other spices coming out of the hose.  When they were finished making the last two pies, they did wash the hose somehow.  I guess it was coming from the basement.  I looked behind this Mack’s and saw the trash, but someone was outside at the time.  The sauce seemed thinner coming out of the hose, than what Steve and I used.  I sound really corny in this video, but was just trying to ask some questions. You’ll hear the lady sitting beside me ask about the cheese. 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5VtyW-TPsU" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5VtyW-TPsU</a>


Norma

Peter,

I didn’t take notice to what how they sliced the pies that night I took these videos, but I brought home a pie that is parbaked, I need to weigh it now, before I freeze or refrigerated it.  How should I proceed with that?  They told me last night to come in today, before we left, to get a whole pizza parbaked.  I put it on the hood of the car, but it was so windy, that while I put the other items in the car, the wind blew the whole box off the car onto the parking lot.  It didn’t ruin it, but then, it did put some cheese on the top of the pizza box.  This was from a 18" pie.  I had to hurry that night, because they were soon closing.

Norma
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 06:49:19 PM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22063
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #214 on: May 09, 2010, 06:53:11 PM »
I didn’t take notice to what how they sliced the pies that night I took these videos, but I brought home a pie that is parbaked, I need to weigh it now, before I freeze or refrigerated it.  How should I proceed with that?  They told me last night to come in today, before we left, to get a whole pizza parbaked.  I put it on the hood of the car, but it was so windy, that while I put the other items in the car, the wind blew the whole box off the car onto the parking lot.  It didn’t ruin it, but then, it did put some cheese on the top of the pizza box.

Norma,

I would just weigh the pizza and note its value. Pizzas lose some weight when they cool down, so a freshly baked pizza will weigh more. I once ran a test on this with a Papa John's pizza. I will have to see if I have my notes on the extent of the weight loss.

You might also note the diameter of the pizza. I am curious to know if there was any shrinkage during baking.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 06:55:33 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21951
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #215 on: May 09, 2010, 06:56:57 PM »
These are some of the pictures of the parbaked pie I brought home today.  I took some pictures in the parking lot and also some pictures in the car.

Norma
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 07:09:56 PM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21951
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #216 on: May 09, 2010, 07:04:40 PM »
rest of pictures of parbaked pie.  I will weigh the pie. I will post more pictures of this parbaked pie later, my computer won't keep up with quickly trying to resize them.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21951
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #217 on: May 09, 2010, 07:16:19 PM »
Peter,

I am trying to weigh this pie, but it is so big, I can't see the numbers on the scale.  I did put a pizza tray on the scale and tare it first, but since the pie is not stiff, it wants to droop over the edges.  Do you have any ideas on how I can weigh it and be able to see the numbers?

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline widespreadpizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1224
  • Location: NH
    • my beer store opening in june 2011
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #218 on: May 09, 2010, 07:45:33 PM »
Norma,  put something tall on your scale,  something like a paint can shaped object,  then put the box on top of it.  save the box to deduct later.  -marc

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21951
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #219 on: May 09, 2010, 07:53:38 PM »
Norma,  put something tall on your scale,  something like a paint can shaped object,  then put the box on top of it.  save the box to deduct later.  -marc

widespreadpizza,

Thanks for the tip on trying to weigh this big pie.  :-D  I sure couldn't figure it out.  I sure can use the help after the pie blew off the car.  I was going to weigh it there before we came home, but it was too windy.

Thanks,

Norma

Peter,

The Mack's parbaked pie measures 17" x 17 1/4". 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!