Author Topic: NJ Boardwalk Pizza  (Read 245458 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #250 on: May 10, 2010, 09:39:34 PM »
Worth a read. Interesting comparisons:

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2006/08/in_wildwood_new_jersey_its_macks_vs_sams.html

It mentions the cheeses and sauce to cheese ratios.

Mike,

Great find!  ;D  I also watched at Sam's, but didn't try a slice.  I should have.  ::) Sam's pizza to me looked like any ordinary pizza NY slice pizza I had many times in New York.  If I would have tried a slice then I would have known.  LOL  I don't know what you will think of the Mack's pizza you will be trying, but to me it is something different.  That is why I am trying to recreate it. 

Hopefully you will also like this style of pizza. 

Thanks for the link,

Norma


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #251 on: May 11, 2010, 11:23:12 AM »
Norma,

I recently found a photo of a Mack's pizza slice, at http://www.crazyaboutwildwood.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/webassets/314314.JPG, where the photo shows the presence of a lot of herbs, most likely including oregano. From what I can tell, your photos do not show that amount of herbs in the sauce. Is it possible that there are oregano shakers on the tables at Mack's?

Peter

Offline sear

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #252 on: May 11, 2010, 12:52:56 PM »
Norma,

I recently found a photo of a Mack's pizza slice, at http://www.crazyaboutwildwood.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/webassets/314314.JPG, where the photo shows the presence of a lot of herbs, most likely including oregano. From what I can tell, your photos do not show that amount of herbs in the sauce. Is it possible that there are oregano shakers on the tables at Mack's?

Peter

in that photo on empty table are red peper, garlic, and some herb shaker (in addition to salt and pepper)  ;D
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 12:54:29 PM by sear »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #253 on: May 11, 2010, 01:03:18 PM »
James,

Good eye. I had noticed the other table but could only identify the salt and pepper shakers. But when I magnified the photo by 400%, I could see three other shakers. One of them looks like it might contain oregano and/or other herbs. Norma may have noticed the shakers and may be able to tell us what is in them.

Peter

Offline jasonm2674

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #254 on: May 11, 2010, 08:23:26 PM »
Wow Norma,

awesome pics.  I am a little stunned by the thickness of that crust.  It has been forever since I was there so I could very well be remembering something else.  You have a picture of a macs corner stand.  Do they have three on the boardwalk ?  I'm thinking ocean city.  They have a store that is open year round and another within a couple of blocks that is only open in the summers.  The one part of the boardwalk that had the dough making operation underneath it was nearer to the store that closes in winter.

I vividly remember walking up the end of the street, on the left below the boardwalk was the dough area and then up to the boardwalk and turning left to get to the store a short ways down.

That's awesome the information you guys have put together I think I may have to take a weekend and drive out there just to have some :)

Keep up the good work!!!


EDIT -   The oven that is in those pictures is I believe an old LA version of rotoflex.  That is an old oven, probably late 1960's or mid 70's.  It has been retrofitted.  The large square metal plate behind the digital readout is about the size of the original thermostat control those ovens had.  I know that the store's we had visited had new ovens installed that did not have the brickwork on them.

WOW it's been so long !  Thanks for the memory recall along with all of this as well :)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 08:31:23 PM by jasonm2674 »

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #255 on: May 11, 2010, 10:06:00 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for finding the picture of the slice with more added oregano or herbs. :)  When we ate the slices of Mack’s pizza over the weekend there wasn’t that much herbs on the slices or even the parbaked pie we bought home. 

I didn’t notice any shakers at the counter where we ate the slices of pizza.  Maybe I was just trying to watch what they were doing and I might have missed them.  I was trying to watch the piemen, talk to them, and also trying to inspect the pizza I was eating, so my brain might not have been able to take everything in. 

Steve and I shared two slices of the parbaked Mack’s pizza today.  We baked one slice on the deck in the bottom of my oven and one slice on a screen in the top of the oven.  The first 3 pictures are of the slice baked on the deck in the bottom of my oven.  This sure didn’t taste as good as when the pies are just made or even when my daughter and I reheated in the microwave.  The cheese still tasted good, but the crust didn’t have any more rise.  Steve thought the cheese tasted like American cheese added.  After I thought about it, I too, thought the cheese tasted something like a good American cheese.  Steve also commented that the slices tasted like a grilled cheese sandwich.  The second slice that was baked on the screen turned out better, but still wasn’t like a Mack’s pizza.  I didn’t take any pictures of the second slice.  The last picture is the baked skin.  We tried to analyze if other spices were added and the only thing we came up with was there was probably pepper added.  There were some small pieces that tasted like pepper.  The other herb, was oregano in our opinion.

We also tried to open one of the dough balls.  It was hard to open and did want to rip.  We just baked the skin on the deck with no toppings.  I think the dough was overfermented.  We both did smell it after it baked and to us really smelled like fresh bread.  We didn’t eat any though. 

Norma

jasonm2674,

Thanks for saying you like the pictures.  :)  There are only two Mack’s in Wildwood now.  The place I think that is making the dough is the one at Wildwood Crest.  I didn’t see any evidence that they were making the dough at the Mack’s in the center of the boardwalk.  The oven at the Mack’s in Wildwood Crest does have a thermostat that you can see the dial.  I didn’t eat any pizza at that Mack’s.  I just looked inside and around that building. 

You’re welcome for the memory recall.  I also had the memory revisited.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #256 on: May 12, 2010, 09:18:48 AM »
Since this thread is about Mack’s pizza, the shore and boardwalk, I thought I would include a picture under the boardwalk.  This song is titled “Under the Boardwalk”, by the Drifters.  The song “Under the Boardwalk” was popular in the 60's.  Under the boardwalk in Wildwood many years ago, the spaces for the boards were farther apart.  My brother and I went under the boardwalk many times searching for money.  We did find money many times.

Since Wildwood was know as a Doo Wop town for many years, I thought I would include this in this thread.



And of course who could forget the song I had posted before “Wildwood Days”, by Bobby Rydell.  I sure just had one of those “Wildwood Nights”, this past weekend. This video shows different views of Wildwood and included in this video is a  picture of Mack’s pizza business almost at the end of the video.  Since spring will soon be gone and summer is comin on, in my opinion this song is fitting for this thread.



Norma

Offline Essen1

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #257 on: May 12, 2010, 02:53:13 PM »
Okay, so here's my contribution to the Mack pie cloning project.

I have to say that Peter's formula was great. However, since I don't have anything to compare it to - never had a Mack's pie in my life - I will just describe the characteristics of the crust and see what the feedback is from those who had a Mack pie before and hopefully it came close...

I think the crust had all the features of a good NY street slice crust. It was crunchy yet chewy, was easily folded and had a nice droop. The two pies I made were baked at around 565°F for roughly 7 mins. As for the cheese, I used 8oz of the "O" organics brand sharp white cheddar cheese and 4oz mozzarella cheese of the Lucerne brand (both Safeway brands). They cheeses blended in very nicely without producing too much grease. It was a surprisingly tasteful combo.

For the sauce, I used my own recipe because I don't really know what type of sauce or ingredients Mack uses. Overall, I think the formula Peter posted is dead on for a great NY-style pizza. But since I like a bit more crunch in mine I might reduce the amount of oil that used. I also noted the difference between the olive oil that I normally use in my doughs and the vegetable oil.

For the oil I used the Smart Balance brand, which has a blend of canola, soy and olive oils, plus some healthy Omega 3's...something for the conscience.  ;)

Anyway, I might tinker around with Peter's formula just a little bit and see what I can come up with. I will either post the findings here or in my NY-style project thread.


Norma,

In pic # 5712 & 5714 you can see how close Peter came with his formula when you compare the crust to the pics you posted of the slice you bought at Mack's. It is very close.

The first pie was a plain cheese and the second a simple mushroom.
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #258 on: May 12, 2010, 02:54:37 PM »
Second set of pics...

Mike

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #259 on: May 12, 2010, 02:55:25 PM »
And the rest...
Mike

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #260 on: May 12, 2010, 03:54:35 PM »
Mike,

Those pizzas look terrific. Were they 14" pizzas with KABF/Bob's Red Mill VWG, and 0.50% IDY, one day of fermentation, and baked only on a stone and without using the broiler element? And how did the crusts taste?

From what I have read, a Mack's pizza can look like a NY style but is sometimes described as having a more cracker-like rim. Norma and others who have had the Mack's pizzas will better be able to describe the characteristics of a basic Mack's crust. A Mack's pizza only uses a white cheddar cheese and is supposed to be so oily that the fat drips/rolls of of a slice when held vertically.

Thanks again for pitching in.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #261 on: May 12, 2010, 04:42:02 PM »
Mike,

I really want to thank you for going along with this experiment.  ;D I appreciate that you are willing to try this without ever tasting a Mack’s pizza. So how did you like the Mack’s pizza?  Your pies look delicious.  Wish I could have been there to taste them.  Could you twirl this pie and how did the dough handle?  I am anxious to make another dough and try out Peter’s formula.  I am still working on the left over parbaked Mack’s pizza.  It sure doesn’t taste like the Mack’s when fresh.  I had asked if they sell dough balls and the pieman said no, but they do sell parbaked that would taste the same when rebaked.  I should have just purchased a fully baked pizza, because in my opinion so far, the parbaked isn’t good. 

I agree with you that Peter’s pie at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg97757.html#msg97757 really looked like a real Mack’s pizza.  I kept looking at Peter’s pie different times.  Since he gives such good detailed instructions, I think anyone can try a Mack’s clone, by reading over his instructions and using his formula.

Norma

Peter,

The Mack’s crust is different from a NY style pizza.  In my opinion the crust is more soft with a little crunch.  That is what is tough to achieve.  I think ERASMO also commented on the crust somewhere in this thread.  He eats Mack’s pizza more than I can.  Maybe he will also comment on this.  I can’t find where he commented on the crust.  I think he commented that the crust is more pastry like.  He has been a great help in finding out what kind of sauce Mack’s uses and also being able to describe how the pies are.  ;D

Norma

Offline Essen1

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #262 on: May 12, 2010, 04:58:55 PM »
Mike,

Those pizzas look terrific. Were they 14" pizzas with KABF/Bob's Red Mill VWG, and 0.50% IDY, one day of fermentation, and baked only on a stone and without using the broiler element? And how did the crusts taste?

From what I have read, a Mack's pizza can look like a NY style but is sometimes described as having a more cracker-like rim. Norma and others who have had the Mack's pizzas will better be able to describe the characteristics of a basic Mack's crust. A Mack's pizza only uses a white cheddar cheese and is supposed to be so oily that the fat drips/rolls of of a slice when held vertically.

Thanks again for pitching in.

Peter

Peter,

Thank you. No need to thank me for chipping in. You know I'm always up for some pizza projects  ;D But I appreciate it.

I was amazed how well they turned out but I wish I'd have something to compare it to.

Anyway, yes they were 14" pies, with a KABF/Bob's VWG mix, 24hr fermentation (cold, bulk) with a warm-up time of two hours at room temp, baked on my stone at the lowest rack and no broiler this time. The broiler wasn't necessary and I also left it out intentionally because I wanted to achieve a more Stree-slice look rather than an overly charred or browned crust. I think the two pies are somewhere in the middle, though.

The crust was anything like a cracker crust or even remotely crackery. It had a really nice crunch to it but was yet chewy and, imho, has great potential if we can find out more about Mack's pies, sauce ingredients, etc.


Norma,

My pleasure.

It was the first time, regarding the crust, where I felt it was extremely close to NY/NJ style. It could have been the higher amount of oil the formula asked for compared to what I normally use. I don't go much higher than 2% usually, and I use olive oil. But...I could imagine if one would lower the amount of oil down to maybe 2.5% and up the hydration to maybe 59% it could come closer to the real thing.

But then again, I got nothing to compare it to so we all really rely on you for now... ;D

I'll definitely play around with it some more.
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #263 on: May 12, 2010, 05:05:50 PM »
I forgot to mention that the one thing that bugged me a little about the pizzas was the puffiness of the outer rim (cornicione). I was hoping for a less puffy one and more in line with the NJ Boardwalk style.
Mike

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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #264 on: May 12, 2010, 05:15:55 PM »

But then again, I got nothing to compare it to so we all really rely on you for now... ;D

I'll definitely play around with it some more.

Mike,

If you watch in the videos how Mack's piemen handle the dough, they really press the whole dough ball out hard with their fingers, before opening the dough. I had asked the one pieman after I took the video, if his hands don't get tired from doing that all day and he said sometimes they do.  :-D  I think you would need strong hands to be able to do that all day. I think that is why the crust is so flat, without many voids.

ERASMO goes to eat Mack's pizza more than I can.  He knows more about the crust than I do.  His help has been great.  :)

Norma


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #265 on: May 12, 2010, 05:19:55 PM »
I forgot to mention that the one thing that bugged me a little about the pizzas was the puffiness of the outer rim (cornicione). I was hoping for a less puffy one and more in line with the NJ Boardwalk style.

Mike,

It is possible that the amount of yeast you used, 0.50% IDY, was responsible for the taller rim because of greater gas production. I last used only 0.20% for a 3-day cold fermentation and I intentionally pressed the outer edge of the skin flat so that I would minimize the height of the rim when baked, just as I saw in the video that Norma referenced, at . In your case, were there a lot of bubbles in the dough balls as they tempered at room temperature or in the skins as you were stretching them out to the final size (14")?

Peter

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #266 on: May 12, 2010, 05:27:10 PM »
Norma,

Well, then we have to put Erasmo on the spot, don't we?  ;D


Peter,

No bubbles in the dough balls but there were a few bubbles in the skins but I not a whole lot. I was already thinking to lower the amount of yeast somewhat for a 24hr cold-rise in my next batch, to maybe 0.3%.

Mike

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Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #267 on: May 12, 2010, 05:30:15 PM »
Mike,

Here is the other video I posted before, to show how hard they press out the dough.



Norma

Offline Essen1

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #268 on: May 12, 2010, 05:33:46 PM »
They also spin it, something I can't do due to a low kitchen ceiling.

But I will try to do it as close as the guy in the video next time.
Mike

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Offline Matthew

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #269 on: May 12, 2010, 06:06:52 PM »
They also spin it, something I can't do due to a low kitchen ceiling.

But I will try to do it as close as the guy in the video next time.

Mike,
Nothing wrong with a Rosette made from pizza dough.  If the dough sticks to the ceiling just let it harden then prime & paint. :-D

Offline ERASMO

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #270 on: May 12, 2010, 07:03:46 PM »
On the crust it had a drier crackery crispy cornicione not chewy like the traditional new york style.

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #271 on: May 12, 2010, 08:42:03 PM »
I am trying to narrow down the distributors Mack's  and Mack and Mancos might be using to get all their products for making their pizzas.  Right now, I have narrowed them down to three, until I call them and find out if they carry the Gangi sauce, Kryol flour, and white cheddar. 

After looking though the feature at PMQ that Peter supplied  http://www.pmq.com/distributors/, I think I will call these places in the next few days.  They seem like they would be the logical suppliers for Mack's, but I can't be sure.  They all seem to be in the New Jersey area and some are not to far from Ocean City, NJ and Wildwood, NJ.

http://www.vesuviofoods.com/products.html

http://www.ferrarofoods.com/

http://www.brokeroftheyear.com/

Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #272 on: May 13, 2010, 09:55:52 AM »
Another though on the crust.  Would the dough act differently when cooked in the rotoflex oven with out stones compared to on the pizza stone?  I would think stone would case more oven spring and bubbles than just a metal floor.  Just a thought.  I am no expert.


Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #273 on: May 13, 2010, 12:24:55 PM »

ERASMO,

I am not an expert on Roto-Flex ovens, but did look how they operate.  It seems like they can bake on the metal deck or with a stone on the deck.  They are more for high volume pizza businesses that need to be able to produce many pies in a short time. 

http://www.rotoflexoven.com/EXPAGES/gallery.asp

Tony Gemignani explains how to use a Roto- Flex oven in this video.  He says the pizza can be baked on the metal shelf or on a stone.



Another short video about Roto-Flex ovens



Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #274 on: May 13, 2010, 12:28:16 PM »
Thanks for that Norma.  Very Interesting.

I was going to preheat a cookie sheet in the oven and try baking a pizza on that instead of my stone to see what it does to oven spring.