Author Topic: 70% hydration no knead CF pizza  (Read 726 times)

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Offline sallam

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70% hydration no knead CF pizza
« on: September 02, 2015, 03:53:54 AM »
Today I've started a pizza dough similar to the one I posted before here , excpet that I'm adding a 2-day cold fermentation, and no autolyse.

Here is the formula:

100% AP white flour
70% hydration
0.1% cy
2% salt

I dissolve the cy in little water, then add the rest of the water, then the flour and then sprinkle the salt on top, then mix , no machine, just using a wooden stick, fold a few times with a spatula, then drop into an oiled pan, brush top with some oil, cover with cling film and put in fridge for 2-day bulk fermentation.
Then take it out of fridge, divide and leave in oiled steel trays for 90 minutes, kept in oven.
Preheat gas oven to 550f for 30 minutes, while opening the dough in trays then dressing them.
bake for 5 minutes, bottom rack, turn tray, then bake another 5 minutes.
Cool in wire rack for 10 minutes. Ready to eat
Takes 2:20h , plus 2-day CF

I'll post pics when I bake that dough.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 03:58:11 AM by sallam »
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Offline sallam

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Re: 70% hydration no knead CF pizza
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2015, 06:48:30 AM »
The taste was good, but the crust was dense and the bottom was whitish and seemed under cooked, though in the oven it seemed to have oven-risen, yet it came out flat.
Could it have been over-fermented? or under fermented?
Should I perhaps let the dough cool fown for longer out of the fridge? (I did for 2 hours)
I also suspect that it consumed all the sugars in the flour while cold fermenting. Is it a must that I add sugar to the formula? I prefer to use just flour, water, cy and salt..
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 06:50:39 AM by sallam »
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Offline sallam

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Re: 70% hydration no knead CF pizza
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2015, 10:52:00 AM »
Any tips, please?
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Offline vtsteve

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Re: 70% hydration no knead CF pizza
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2015, 02:40:23 PM »
Tip:  Pictures would help...   :angel:

If it over-rose, and fell, that points to weak structure (underdeveloped gluten, or weak flour) or too much yeast (or both). I would add stretch and folds while cooling the bulk dough. You may still need to reduce the yeast. Is your flour malted, or do you have access to diastatic malt?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 02:50:20 PM by vtsteve »
In grams we trust.

Offline sallam

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Re: 70% hydration no knead CF pizza
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2015, 07:23:22 AM »
No, I use regular Ap flour, no malt.
I use the same flour for my room temperature 5 hour dough, which always turn out great, with crunchy brown bottom, and airy soft crumb.
I need to know what am I missing when cold fermenting. The taste in CF is great, tangy but balanced. Yet, it lacks bottom crust crunchiness and it lacks airy soft crumb, and the bottom tastes raw.
How can I get that great tang while at the same time get the other characteristics of my RT dough?

I'm using as little as 1g cy for 1000g flour (0.1%). I don't think its the yeast percentage.
Yesterday I tried doubling the time after taking the dough out of the fridge, for 4h instead of 2. It was 33h in the fridge, and 3h on the counter before dividing, folding in trays. then resting for another hour, then opening in trays and dressing.
The result was also a flat pie, white bottom. I'm using the same oven, same temperature, same tray oiling and same baking times like the RT dough. Why doesn't it get any oven rise, brown crunchy bottom?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 07:46:04 AM by sallam »
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Offline vtsteve

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Re: 70% hydration no knead CF pizza
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2015, 11:11:02 AM »
Most 'regular a/p flour' (in the US, anyway) contains some malt, to adjust the falling number (enzyme activity).
Dough at higher hydration ferments more quickly, so it could still be overfermented at the same yeast percentage.

Any sign of a rise, before the bake?
How much yeast are you using in your RT dough? I would try between 1/2 - 1/4 as much for the CF dough.

Check your 'fridge temperature - it should be 2-4C

Can you bump up the salt to 2.5%?

Try a stronger flour? Your A/P may not be able to tolerate a longer fermentation.

I'm shooting in the dark, here. Photos would help.

So would some stretch and folds, probably. It sounds underdeveloped on top of everything else. A lot of no-knead pancakes have been improved by a few folds. Folding every hour while the dough chills will also cool the mass more quickly and evenly.
In grams we trust.

Offline sallam

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Re: 70% hydration no knead CF pizza
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2015, 04:38:03 PM »
I went back to my notes and found that, when I used to make 24h CF dough with IDY, I was using 1t of IDY, and the result was great all around. Since 1t equals 3g, equivalent to 9g cy, then I'm now using 1/9th that amount. I'm obviously using way too little yeast. Next time I'll CF for 36h, then RTF for 8h, or until dough doubles. If that didn't work well, I'll double the amount of cy from 0.1% to 0.2% or more if neccessary until I strike a success formula. The dough doctor, Tom Lehmann even suggests between 0.17% and 0.5% of IDY (0.5% to 1.5% cy) for CF dough in his NY style pizza crust recipe, but I prefer to use as little cy as possible to give way for the flavors to develop more in the fridge without being overpowered by yeast activity. Do you think this will work?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 08:57:49 PM by sallam »
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Offline vtsteve

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Re: 70% hydration no knead CF pizza
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2015, 07:35:17 PM »
It sounds good to me!  :pizza:
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Offline sallam

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Re: 70% hydration no knead CF pizza
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2015, 02:08:07 PM »
I did a 33h bulk CF then 8h bulk RTF to allow the yeast to develop and make the dough double in volume. Oven rise was great, but the delicious tangy taste was gone!
This is weird, because when I used to leave the exact 33h cf dough out of the fridge for 2-4h only, the tangy taste was obvious. Does long fermentation in room temperature reduce or even wipe out the tangy taste that was developed during CF?
I'm a home baker.


 

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