advice needed

[RFXCasey]

I am using this recipe     
   
    *  1 1/2 cups warm water (105F)
    * 4 1/2 cups of all-purpose flour
    * 1 tablespoons of olive oil
    * 2 1/2 teaspoon of granulated sugar
    * 2 1/2 teaspoon of salt
    * 1/2 teaspoon of yeast
    * 1/2 cup cornmeal

   1.  In a large bowl, dissolve sugar and salt in water.
   2. Add oil and flour and stir with heavy spoon for 1 minute.
   3. Turn out to a lightly floured surface and press into a circle.
   4. Sprinkle yeast evenly over dough and knead for 12 minutes.
   5. Divide dough into portions: 6 oz. for Calzones, 18 oz. for 12 inch, 25 oz. for 15 inch
   6. Roll each portion into a ball. You want a dough ball without visible seams except the bottom.
   7. Place dough balls in a bowl, cover with plastic wrap, and allow to proof for 1−2 hours at room temperature to use the same day,
      or store in refrigerator to use the next day.
   8. Place dough ball on lightly floured surface, and lightly flour the top. Use fingertips to evenly flatten out the dough ball. Work from
      the edges to the center press dough into a 12" circle. Place both hands within the shell edge and stretch with fingertips and palms 
      maintaining an even pressure. Or, use a lightly floured rolling pin to stretch to desired shape.
   9. Sprinkle cornmeal or semolina on pizza peel (a wooden paddle with a handle to slide the pizza in the oven) or a cutting board. The
      cornmeal allows the pizza to slide onto the stone easily.
  10. After topping the pizza, when you are ready to cook it. Shake the peel or cutting board to make sure none of the dough is sticking.
  11. Carefully slide the pizza into the oven.
  12. Bake in a 500 degree oven for 20-25 minutes, until crust is golden.

 I am trying to follow it to the T. I am using a stone and have a couple of problems though the first being that the dough seems to be too stretchy when I try to spread it out and keeps spring back on me. The second problem I am having is that the cheese seems to start to burn at about 12 minutes. I started placing the dough in the oven first for 10 minutes and then putting the cheese on and sticking it back in for 12 more minutes which works pretty good but sometimes my dough still seems well a bit doughy. One last question how do the New York style places get that greasiness on the plane cheese pizzas. Do they put olive oil on the dough before the sauce?

[Pete-zza]

RFXCasey,

Can you tell me where you found this recipe? Also, what kind of yeast are you using--instant dry yeast or active dry yeast--and what brand of all-purpose flour are you using?

Can you tell me how specifically you measure out the flour? For example, do you use the "spoon and level" method or the "scoop and level" method, or possibly a variation of one of these flour measurement methods?

At what point did you use the dough, right after the 1-2 hours of room temperature fermentation or out of the refrigerator the next day? If the latter, how many hours transpired from the time you put the dough into the refrigerator and you removed it from the refrigerator?

When you say that the dough is both stretchy and springs back, do you mean that when you pull and stretch the dough ball out to the desired skin size it immediately springs back? Or does it pull and stretch out very easily, sits there, and then gradually recedes?

I am sure I will have some thoughts once you provide the information requested above.

Peter

[RFXCasey]

Well, the recipe I got from recipepizza.com. I actually have been trying 2 different ones from the same site. One is for New York style and the other for whole wheat. The one I was having the springy problem with was the whole wheat so I apologizes for any confusion. I know I posted only the recipe for the New York style. I would have posted a link the that site but this site said I was too new to do that. If you go on recipepizza.com just click on dough section right there on the top of the page. Look at the New York and Wheat style you will see exactly what I am trying to recreate. With the wheat recipe the dough springs back immediately after I spread it out with a rolling pin. The main problem I am having with the New York style recipe is when followed to the T is not being able to cook it for the recommended time period. I can only cook it for about half of what is called for in the recipe or the cheese will burn. The problem is then the dough is not cooked right. I have been using part skim mozzarella so I don't know if it's better to use the super fattening stuff so it doesn't burn. Some cheese suggestions would be great. For both recipes I use fleischmann's active dry yeast. The flour is Pillsbury all purpose. As for measuring I just use the 1 cup scoop and scoop it directly from the bag. I try to let the dough sit for at least 45 minutes to an hour. Thanks so much for the help. I grew up in New Jersey but moved down south when I was 14. For years I missed the northern style pizza so much I couldn't stand it. Now I would like to be able to make my own though I don't have a brick oven but I figure maybe with a good stone I could get pretty close. I like the wheat style though cause lets face it's I'm a lot older now and can't be eating new york style every day without my belt busting.

[Pete-zza]

RFXCasey,

The NY style dough recipe you posted comes from here: http://www.recipepizza.com/doughs/ny_style.htm.

I was neither impressed with the write-up or the dough recipe itself, which I deem to be flawed or problematic in several respects, to wit:

1. Adding the yeast called for by the recipe, which I assume to be instant dry yeast (IDY), to the rest of the dough ingredients after they have been combined does not make a lot of sense. That method is often used to make bread doughs that are first subjected to an autolyse rest period. However, no such autolyse is called for in the recipe. Pizza operators who use IDY, whether for a NY style or any other style, add the IDY to the flour. If you used ADY as you indicated and added that to the dough as called for by the recipe, that is even more problematic. For best results, the ADY should be rehydrated in a portion of the formula water at about 105 degrees F for about 10 minutes. The rehydrated ADY can then be added to the rest of the formula water, which ideally should be on the cool side.

2. If one-half teaspoon IDY is used for 4 1/2 cups of all-purpose flour, there is no way that you will be able to use the dough in 1-2 hours. One-half teaspoon of IDY for 4 1/2 cups of all-purpose flour measured out the way you indicated comes to about 0.20%. Unless you use water at a temperature just short of being able to kill the yeast (about 143 degrees F), and/or your kitchen is around 110-120 degrees F (I am somewhat guessing on this), you won't get sufficient fermentation activity to use the dough within 1-2 hours. 0.20% IDY should work for cold fermentation purposes although it may be a bit on the low side based on the flour measurement method you used. 

3. The recipe calls for using 18 ounces of dough for a 12" pizza and 25 ounces of dough for a 15" pizza. Those numbers translate to thickness factors of 0.1592057 and 0.141492, respectively. The thickness factor of a typical NY style pizza dough is between about 0.085-0.10. Your dough skin would be too thick by NY pizza style standards. That may also explain the long recommended bake time (20-25 minutes). It takes a long time to bake very thick crusts so it is no surprise that the cheeses would break down during the protracted bake time, especially with a 500 degrees F oven temperature. If you used several toppings and/or a lot of cheese, those steps would further aggravate matters. A typical NY style pizza baked in my home oven takes about 6-7 minutes on average.

It is possible to fix the recipe you used and the instructions for the recipe, but it is sometimes better to just find a good, proven NY style dough recipe to begin with. With respect to the whole wheat dough recipe, you might want to look at the whole-wheat dough recipes posted on the forum under the Specialty-Grain Pizzas board.

Peter

[RFXCasey]

Thanks a lot for the support.  It's so nice to have a place like this to get answers from friendly people who just want to help. Keep up the good work. I will look on the site for a better recipe and hopefully be making my own awesome pizza soon.

[clcardell]

Pete-zza you rock!!!  I'm learning a lot from you guys.  Thanks for the great advice!

[RFXCasey]

Just wanted to let you know I took your advise and used the New York style recipe from pizzamaking.com. I didn't have any high gluten flour so I just used some Pillsbury all purpose instead. Well, I made enough dough for 3 12 inch pizzas. It wasn't overly stretchy or anything. I didn't realize till it was too late that I didn't have any olive oil so I had to use canola. Well it came out great! I was really happy with it. A little bit of practice with rolling out the dough for a thicker edge on the crust and I will be all set. Thanks a lot for you help. I have pizza for  days now.

[TronCarter]

RFXCasey,

I'm happy to hear that you are having some success.  I do have a few tips for you.  In my area at least, there are food service suppliers that stock items for restaurants and caterers.  The one in my town sells 20lb bags of high gluten flour while none of the grocery stores do.  If you can't get high gluten, go for a bread flour.  It has a higher protein level than AP flour and will give you little more stretchy dough.  Also, in the long run you will probably be happier with the finished pizza if you don't use a rolling pin to roll the dough out, but use your finger tips and hands to stretch the dough.  A rolling pin pushes too much of the trapped CO2 out and you end up with a flatter dough after baking.

Tron

[RFXCasey]

Well, I would do that if I could figure out of the resturant guys do it. I totally sux at tossing dough.

[TronCarter]

Tossing is not necessary and, while it does stretch the dough, is more for show than anything.  Check out this video by Peter Reinhart:

http://www.finecooking.com/videos/how-to-shape-pizza.aspx